Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by Superman 1265, Jul 31, 2013.
A few things:
I totally agree that MoS should have just got a regular sequel. You'll get no argument out of me there. I've been saying for months and months that Batman should just sit on the shelf while Superman gets the spotlight for a change.
And you're right, in the more modern depictions of their relationship Batman has been given the edge more often than not. But the fact remains that he's a guy who throws Batarangs next to a guy who can toss things out of the atmosphere. The two of them together can very quickly become ridiculous if it's not handled carefully, and doing it in live action is completely uncharted territory. A lot of the GA is not used to seeing them together.
It's not my intention to come off greedy here. I was perfectly content with the trilogy and ready to take a break from Batman films. But this is happening whether I like it or not, and I still care about the character and want what's in his best interest if WB is going after my dollar here. This could potentially dictate the direction of Batman in cinema for the next decade or so...obviously myself and every hardcore Batman fan here has our eye on this.
Again, I'm not saying I want Batman to PWN Superman in this film and just dominate everything. IF Batman is to be Superman's major opponent in this film (like they are heavily implying), then he needs to be a worthy opponent. It's that simple. With kryptonite added to the mix, I don't see why this is such an inherently bad thing. If you're going to introduce a plot device like kryptonite, obviously it will need to be paid off at some point and we'll see Supes more vulnerable. One of the best scenes in Superman Returns is Lex's beatdown of Supes on the kryptonite-infused island. Him stabbing Supes in the back? So badass! If we can have a scene like that in a film, where that version of Lex wasn't even a physically imposing threat...would it really such a crime to have a kryptonite-wielding Batman trade some blows with Supes?
Quite frankly, after the very video-gamey sequence CG Kal and Zod fighting each other while destroying Metropolis...I'd LOVE to see some on the ground, hand to hand stuff between Cavill and ________. It's be visceral and a nice change of pace.
I'm not saying this has to get turned into another Bat-glory hour. I think this should ultimately be a Superman movie where Superman learns something and becomes the better for it (and Batman too...they should learn from each other). As "greedy" as you think it might be for a Bat-fan to have specific wants for this film, I think some Supes fans are coming off a little insecure about the whole "vs" aspect of the movie. If Batman has to cheat to level the playing field I don't see how it reflects badly on Superman if he manages to inflict some damage, especially when he doesn't have Batman's training as a fighter.
Lastly, I think Lex could still be a MAJOR player in this film. I think there could be an interesting hate-triangle of sorts between Bruce, Lex and Superman. Similar to the Batman/Dent/Joker triangle of TDK.
Well, assuming if this new film bombs in every way possible, at least I can try to pretend that MOS was a standalone story, much like SR was, but the difference being that I can enjoy watching MOS over and over again.
It's kind of a shame that Superman has yet to get a direct sequel within the 21st century.
Yes. Lex should influence Bruce while Superman investigates a mysterious stranger who frames The Man of Steel. During the fight, to proclaim his innocent Clark should tell Bruce the truth, and Batman should realize the evidence doesn't match up with his preconceived notions. And they should both realize they've been played, but in different ways.
Frank Miller lost his mind sometime in the late 90's. Dark Knight Returns and Year One are both masterworks but the man in his current is not the guy I'd go for story advice. It'd imagine it would be enough just to look at his early work to get inspiration. To me Miller reminds me an awful lot of George Lucas; incandescently brilliant in his early and hungry days but over time bought into his own hype and became something of a parody of his former self. The only difference is that I'm not totally sure if Miller did it unintentionally.
I'd trust Lucas over Miller
So Miller is as crazy as Moore is angry.
Moore still occasionally pops out good stuff though. Nothing can be said of Miller.
I would agree. And Snyder putting Miller's take on their relationship on a pedestal shows where his mind is at. TAS handled their relationship much better.
I prefer Batman, but this is clearly a decision made by marketing in fear of going against The Avengers 2 and Star Wars VII in the same summer. I don't think Superman will necessarily suffer, but his supporting cast and world that desperately needs to be built up--Lois, Perry, the Planet, Lex Luthor, etc.--will become an afterthought in this scenario.
It is a shame.
So Superman will become the antagonistic force in his own sequel.
Well, one more point goes to team "This movie is a cash grab".
People who expect DC to follow up like MC which is not gonna happen and WB announcing a sort of 'SupsBAT' movie is solid conformation to that they are taking a different route .
Iam not against it I just want it perfectly done
IMO The sequel to MOS will have to take place few years after the First to show Superman as well established Known Icon as Superhero and not a Newbie in his career .
Then There will be Batmans 'Vigilante' Sort of Image in worlds eye if he is already batman and the story will follow the consequences of uniting them to form a Elite Force .
It can be done well without boring drama and non established bats origin if they do it right .
the only problem is they really made MOS Origins a little stretchy and Gritty which made the film taste Sour .They should have fast forward his origins and made the Flashbacks less traumatic and show superman more 'Happy go lucky' but then maybe we are getting a darker Universe of JL .
Snyder already said this wont be a DKR themed movie. I am sure he just wants some input from Miller. Either way Snyder rebuilt Superman and for him to have Batman crush him would be insane. Snyder better play this right or he will make loads of fans mad. Another thing, since Snyder is creating this new Batman and this is the one for JLA and future Batman movies, does this mean that Snyder is going to be handling Batman as well?? I guess as long as he keeps Batman's storyline strictly to MOS then whoever directs the Batman movies can just build off that. I just hope we dont see 2 or 3 different Batsuits.
I think that even if Snyder didn't want to destroy Superman with batman, if Warner Bros feels otherwise, then it'll happen, which seems like it might be the case.
At this point and time I am thinking about just staying away from this forum because I have just been unhappy with this idea since its announcement because I am a huge Superman fan and felt like MOS should have gotten a true sequel and after hearing this news it just makes me even more upset. I guess this is going to be a wait and see game for me but so far with everything I am hearing I am not happy about this.
Then WB is dumb and Snyder would be a sell out. I Superman is who they wanted as a tent pole for JLA and a DCU. you cannot have Batman just wander in and hand Superman his butt. I think its ok for Batman to get the upper hand at some point but overall they are going to be a team and this is a MOS sequel according to Snyder. If they make Superman look like a punk then I think fans should boycott WB and any more DC movies
Honestly, I wish I could give WB more credit but given the fact that they were once known to be impressed with receiving the dailies shot for the likes of "Batman & Robin", enough to production on doing another Batman film with Clooney and O'Donnell before B&R was even released, along with having approved of a film like Green Lantern, I really don't put faith in their usage of common sense.
That and I think Fox is a clear example of how a studio will favor a popular character with the GA over a character who's known canon wise to be viewed upon in a much more higher sense of importance, ala the situation with Wolverine and Cyclops.
Fans, as much as they didn't like seeing what happened to Cyclops, have still continued to overall support the X-Men franchise with Wolverine at its helm.
I am sorry, but some of the posters are overreacting, It is clear (maybe Not to some) that WB wants to make a Justice League movie which involves a team of Superheroes, not just Batman movies.
And the fact that WB has won almost all of the court cases regarding movie rights to Superman, those lawsuits that were going on for decades, and to think that they will just focus on Batman and ignore Superman is plain ridiculous.
One more thing MOS was a commercial success why would they not make another solo Superman movie in future, can anyone give a convincing answer ?
Because WBs have contiously made stupid decisions with the DCU?
GA: If Batman wins, YAY BATMAN!
GA: If Batman loses: Why did he lose?
You are assuming that WB is one person.
In past they made some bad decisions, but company is guided by the decisions of the Top level management, the staff working under them are not responsible for failures if the direction is not right.
At that time Alan Horn was CEO, now he has moved to Disney Studios, maybe you should be concerned about Marvel movies.
And Jeff Robinov was the President at that time, he has left WB. Now, a different management is in place, Kevin Tsujihara is the new CEO, let's see what they decide to do.
They have not. Was Nolan's trilogy, Man of Steel, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, and even Superman Returns stupid decisions?
People always want to bring up the Jonah Hex's and Green Lantern's they've done but never the **** they got absolutely right.
Don't get it.
He's talking about the DCU, though, not ever movie they've made.