Justice League Zack Snyder’s Original Justice League Sequels Plans Discussion Thread

Do You Like Snyder’s original plans for Justice League Part 2 & 3?

  • Yes. They Sounded Cool.

    Votes: 10 22.2%

  • No. They sound absolutely awful.

    Votes: 35 77.8%
  • Total voters
    45
shauner111 said:
Zack still thinks it’s beautiful and would have teased it in his JL if the studio said fine.
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Correction : Zack said the speech Batman gave to Alfred was beautiful, and I agree. As a creative, not all ideas are great(like this one imo), but he was obviously willing to let that go, compared to other things he fought the studio for and kept in. Many ideas get dropped for various reasons on all big blockbusters(happened with the Nolan trilogy as well), so ehh I'm not too bothered about a story idea that never happened.

Comicbookguy339 said:
I'll give them one thing. They put more thought into this than Disney put into the ST.
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Yes, on a positive note, you know you can put one thing to rest. The whole "they didnt have a plan with DCEU" thing. If it had all came together with Flash, Aquaman, WW etc all tying into JL2, it would have been really cool.
 
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Just reading through it for a second time now and I am so glad they ditched this. Yes, this was the first pitch and we know changes were made, but even then it sounds like a lot of those changes were just tweaking things rather than a massive overhaul. The biggest overhaul sounds like getting rid of the terrible Bruce/Lois idea (thank you WB for that one!) but as far as we're aware it still comes down to Batman fails to protect Lois, Darkseid kills her, Knightmare, etc.

I also have to say I'm sorry, I know everyone talks about this being a 5 film arc and Snyder's Elseworld story, but the minute you have spin off films and start bringing together the villains and other plot elements from the solos like this, it is a cinematic universe and it's the DC's first. People will quite reasonably treat this and judge this as the main cinematic universe because it is (or at least was planned to be).

The Good
I love the idea of using the Injustice League/Legion of Doom as the villains for JL2 and bringing together the villains from the solos. I like this being a connected universe.

The idea of Wonder Woman reconnecting with her mother, becoming queen, rejoining Themyscira with the world. This all feels like a good end to her arc.

Aquaman - same as Wonder Woman, this sounds like a satisfying resolution to his story.

JL2 opening sounds like good old fashioned heroics which we've needed to see some of in this universe (the political refugee thing feels a bit weird given they won't have time to explore it, the world was shown to embrace Superman after his death and the team just saved the world a few weeks ago. World being divided works well enough with Atlantis and Themyscira still being separated).

Bringing back Deadshot. I liked Will Smith as the character and still hope he comes back one day, just hopefully for something better than this.

Honestly, the proper Superman vs Darkseid fight in JL3 would probably have looked fantastic and the new age of heroes with Atlantis and Themyscria uniting with the heroes, human world and GLs against Darkseid sounds great and a nice pay off to the history lesson in JL.

The Bad
It's way too over stuffed. Even split in two you'd likely be looking at a BvS situation with a hacked up mess in cinemas and 4 hour director's cuts on home release. There's just too much going on here.

I'm not sure what the point of Wonder Woman's God of War and killing Superman vision is when neither of those things come to pass, even in the Knightmare future.

Feels like we're missing some beats as Aquaman goes from failing to bring the 7th kingdom into his alliance in one scene to the 7th kingdom joining the alliance in his next. I'm sure this would have been fixed in scripting but here it just reinforces the feeling they were stuffing too much in.

Darkseid just arriving and stealing the anti life equation makes me laugh in a way I'm not sure it was meant to. Like, as comic fans we know how linked Darkseid and the equation are but to a general audience it could easily come across as the big villain getting what he wants and then a bigger villain randomly drops in out of nowhere and robs it out from under him. We already saw Lex communing with Stepphenwolf so showing Lex working with Darkseid behind his own team's backs might play better here.

The whole "she's my world" feels forced in, only there as a link back to the Knightmare scene in BvS and to foreshadow what's about to happen. Bruce freezes when he thinks it's Clark's kid but jumps into action in JL3 when he knows it's his own? That really doesn't feel like Batman to me (I know this was changed but the whole he freezes and does nothing is rough regardless).

The use of the Injustice League just to set up the Knightmare world. Would have been better as it's own thing so we could actually have the two leagues face off properly. Their defeat in JL3 sounds like a quick footnote before the main battle.

Darkseid feels like he's just there to kill Lois/set up the Knightmare in JL2 and then be the big CGI fight in the third act of JL3. He deserves much better than this.

Batman destroying Darkseid matches with Final Crisis I guess but with this allegedly being Superman's 5 film arc, Superman pushing Darkseid back to Apokolips would have felt more fitting IMO. This whole story feels too Bat centric overall.

The aftermath with Wonder Woman negotiating complete world peace feels a bit over the top (even to someone who prefers his heroes with hope and optimism) but if this was "it" then I have no issue with it. It just feels that, except for Batman, this universe was just getting started. Feels like a waste, especially with WW and Aquaman's solo being so well received, this would have closed the door on them.

20 years later - Not buying that Lois and Clark, who was adopted, would hide the truth from their kid for 20 years. I know it was changed but that planned ending does go to show it became all about Batman the moment they brought him in.

The Utterly Terrible
Superman - I'm sorry but if this was his grand five film arc for Superman, it sucks. Superman not wanting to be Clark just feels regressive for the sake of giving him an "arc". Four movies (BvS-JL3) to essentially get him back where he was at the end of MoS only now raising Bruce's kid. Changing the child to his own son (as we believe to be the case) is better but still doesn't change the fact that Superman's arc just gets him back to where he was after MoS but now with a son. And really, he needs a kid to make him want to be Clark again? This was the grand plan? Yeah, I can see why they wanted to make changes and get to a more classic feeling Superman sooner.

The part I hate - Superman submitting to Darkseid and then killing for him. Sorry, Superman breaking because Lois dies doesn't fit the character IMO. The whole trope of Lois dies and Superman goes bad (mind controlled or not) is something I absolutely detested in Injustice and I hate it here as well. And, even accepting this as happening in a moment of pure grief at the second of her death, that he then goes on and kills for Darkseid is character breaking for me. That's always the part where Superman mentally fights back and shows his will is stronger. This is just taking Superman off the board - AGAIN! - so Snyder can play Knightmare with Batman in a trench coat shooting things. Yeah, no thanks. I'm glad WB killed this. Reading this I'm just convinced Synder didn't have a clue what to do with Superman and that was ultimately a major factor in why audiences didn't connect with him and these plans fell apart.

Bruce/Lois relationship, Batman's sacrifice and the way his legacy was handled. Before WB made him cut it, he really thought Bruce/Lois baby was better than not killing Dick and passing the mantle on that way? Or live action Batman Beyond? Or Damian? Or really any Bat family? And the way it reads that Lois chose Superman because he needed her more rather than she loves him. That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Overall there's definitely some good stuff in there and some of the ideas could still work, but the negatives far out weight the positives for me and I can honestly say I think WB made the right move in scrapping this and wanting to make JL a one and done (with a possible Injustice League/Legion of Doom sequel if it went well). For all the hype and build up Darkseid is just there to kill Lois and set up the Knightmare in JL2 and then be the big boss fight in JL3. Stepphenwold gets more to do in the theatrical cut! If this was still the basic plan when they made it a one and done they should have just used Darkseid in the first JL like in New 52's Origin. Superman's grand arc is a joke. Wonder Woman and Aquaman sound like they get satisfying arcs and I honestly hope we still get some elements from this in their solo movies. Flash and Cyborg are important to resolving the Knightmare but doesn't sound like they get much besides that. And I'm not sure what to make of Batman. The whole Bruce/Lois plot is terrible. Take that away and Batman's just kind of there in the present day stuff until he dies protecting Lois and destroying Darkseid, and in the Knightmare world is just trying to fix his mistake. Giving him Carrie as a legacy character and adding in the Robin backstory would definitely be an improvement over this but something else would need to go to make room for it or it would just be stuffing the movie even fuller. It might make an interesting Elseworlds comic, and for those who want it I hope it does one day, but for the main cinematic universe (I'm sorry, that's what it was) and the first cinematic Justice League this was bad. The cinematic DCU is still trying to right the ship after BvS and WB's flawed attempt to course correct JL, even changing some elements this would likely have been a death blow.
 
Yeah they had a plan...it was just straight up awful and would have been a box office disaster even without the stupid Lois/Bruce subplot. That is 6 movies worth of plot put into 2 movies and completely makes Superman a sidekick in what was supposed to be his hero's journey. Batman is the star of this franchise not Superman no matter how many ten thousand word manifestos the Snyder Bros write. (obviously not people here I am talking about the ones we all despise) There is nothing in those storyboards that would have worked for a tentpole franchise. I mean you think BvS got ripped for being too grimdark this would have been way worse.

As a graphic novel it is interesting (but nothing super special since parts of it have been done before and better like in Injustice) but as a film franchise...it is laughably stupid. The Time Travel stuff (including the explanation of how it works) literally made me laugh out loud it was so bad. It doesn't make any sense since the Earth isnt in the same position on the same day year to year. There is a million explanations you can come up with or steal from comics/films and you pick one that 5th graders could rip apart? You do not have to explain everything. Make it a mystery...or have it be discovered by accident. Have Cyborg become a DeLorean and fly 88 miles per hour...anything but "we have to do it on this day or Flash might run into a wall!" He might, but my head definitely will if that is what happens on screen.

You know why MOS is one of my favorite films ever...despite the rather bleak undertones to some of it (alienation and loss) it still has a sense of whimsy and soul. It goes out of it's way to show the awe and splendor that can be achieved when you look beyond your past and open your heart to the future. Somehow that got lost as they thought about where to go after it. There is no whimsy in any of this. There is no hope, there is just a bunch of characters that are doing stuff because it sounds cool. The ending sounds awesome but I also bet it would not have felt earned. It would have felt forced to most people like the ending of BvS did to them.

I will defend Snyder's films to the high heaven, I have left this board twice after doing so the trolling got so bad. I would never defend these films in any form. Even the good parts wouldn't save them. And you can rationalize all you want that this is "early draft" or whatever but more of it would have ended up in the story than you think and any one of the bad ideas would be enough to sink the entire story.

The AQ stuff sounds good and the WW stuff works and I love the Legion of Doom but the Batman and Superman stuff is just putrid.

JMHO.
 
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Maybe I have to read it again but the vibe I got was Batfleck is so damn selfish. He didn’t decide to act when Darkseid came face to face with Lois...but when time is reversed, Bruce now decides to act becaaaaauuuuse NOW he knows she’s carrying his kid? Huh? So you mean to tell me that he just stood there frozen as Darkseid turns Lois to ashes? Because he had no stakes in that game? Because he thought Clark was the father? What?

As soon as he learns he’s the father, he’s all inspired? How is that Batman? If Batman never met Lois Lane once, he’d fight to save her life in that moment. Maybe I’m missing something.
 
shauner111 said:
Maybe I have to read it again but the vibe I got was Batfleck is so damn selfish. He didn’t decide to act when Darkseid came face to face with Lois...but when time is reversed, Bruce now decides to act becaaaaauuuuse NOW he knows she’s carrying his kid? Huh? So you mean to tell me that he just stood there frozen as Darkseid turns Lois to ashes? Because he had no stakes in that game? Because he thought Clark was the father? What?

As soon as he learns he’s the father, he’s all inspired? How is that Batman? If Batman never met Lois Lane once, he’d fight to save her life in that moment. Maybe I’m missing something.
Click to expand...

I haven't really gone through all the storyboards in great detail, so excuse me if I am misspeaking. I'll read through it in detail tonight and give my opinions. Based off of what I read, I kinda figured it would end up that way, if BvS didn't get criticized the way it did. I'm open to the story.

Anyway to answer this, isn't it that he got into a fight with lois and she wasn't able to explain lex's plan to him? So when darkseid came into the cave he was "overwhelmed" and didn't react well enough. The idea of flash telling him it's his kid, allowed him to listen to her and he was more ready for the darkseid event.
 
idiot09 said:
I dont care for the idea, but the inspiration was obviously Excalibur, so I can see where he's coming from. But at the end of the day, the idea was dropped pretty early on so I dont get the outrage lol
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If Zack wanted to follow Excalibur, the better move would have been to create a new character who was the offspring of Superman and someone else, maybe Darkseid does some DNA trickery or it is Lois and Clark’s son and Darkseid corrupts him, make him the Modred figure and the despotic ruler of Darkseid’s earth rather than Superman. I have a big feeling Superman being relegated to the evil role as a way of figuring out the “why can’t Superman stop this?” problem. The Mordred character could be of equal power or greater to Superman, eliminating that problem, in addition with Superman struggling with the idea that his offspring is evil and he must stop him.

If you’re gonna steal, steal right!
 
I mean bottom line, this is just a rough outline of what the movie would entail as well. There's going to be missing things in this. Like others have stated, it may be overstuffed, but I'm not creative enough to plan out how much time it takes to do certain things.
 
The other thing that even in all the big Snyder ideas, a lot of this is very similar to Infinity War / Endgame in overarching ways. The bad guy winning, creating a dystopian earth, using time travel to fix it, the billionaire tech hero having the birth of their child giving them a reason to fight back, ultimately leading to their self-sacrifice. Ends in all the heroes showing up for his funeral / memorial and a superhero mantle is handed off to someone new.
 
I’d be embarrassed to send that to Jim Lee. Rough draft or not. That’s the kind of stuff I’d think up in the shower at age 17 and as I’m turning the water off whisper to myself “down the drain you go s**tty idea”.
 
Out of respect for those that love Snyder here, I don't want to continue to rain on peoples parades. But one last thing I'll say is Snyder has continued to make clear that he really doesn't give a **** about Superman as a character, and those story ideas just make it more evident.
 
I'm fine with arguing plot points but the minute you turn it personal and insult the actual person, whether or not they are on this forum, I would generally draw the line.
 
DrexlLookinAss said:
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K2Me0Zv.gif
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Yeah, a 20-year-old with no combat experience and no knowledge of who his father was until this point (and no real reason to fight crime since Gotham has been peaceful for two decades) suddenly decides to put on a batsuit and fight crime when he learns that his dad used to do it. I hope he falls to his death the first night out on the town.

Christ, at least Robin John Blake was a cop.
 
i read the general outline of this, honestly had no problems with most of it
the thing with lois' child being bruce's is problematic.
that's snyder trying to inject some (contrived) drama into things.

if they changed it to be clark's, probably would be a better more poignant story, imo.

this was just an early draft and zack's just f***ing around and seeing how far he can take it.
some of it works, lot of it don't.
 
Deck Rickard said:
Yeah, a 20-year-old with no combat experience and no knowledge of who his father was until this point (and no real reason to fight crime since Gotham has been peaceful for two decades) suddenly decides to put on a batsuit and fight crime when he learns that his dad used to do it. I hope he falls to his death the first night out on the town.

Christ, at least Robin John Blake was a cop.
Click to expand...

Yea, that's open ended. He could have been trained by other Justice Leaguers growing up as well.
 
Kevin_28 said:
Yea, that's open ended. He could have been trained by other Justice Leaguers growing up as well.
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But why would he have been? The rationale for that is murky at best. “We’re teaching you martial arts because your father would have wanted to risk your life on a nightly basis?”
 
i do like the part about how the whole world becomes the justice league. cheesy? probably.

but thats the point of dc superheroes and what snyder is trying to get at.

the world becomes united because these gods amongst us inspires us to be our better selves and to save ourselves.

its not just the people of earth relying on superheroes to save the world.

its everyone cooperating together to do it.

and thats not something i've seen really portrayed in these big superhero movies yet.

usually, its pretty elitist - humans are defenseless and depend on these special beings to save us.
 
shauner111 said:
Maybe I have to read it again but the vibe I got was Batfleck is so damn selfish. He didn’t decide to act when Darkseid came face to face with Lois...but when time is reversed, Bruce now decides to act becaaaaauuuuse NOW he knows she’s carrying his kid? Huh? So you mean to tell me that he just stood there frozen as Darkseid turns Lois to ashes? Because he had no stakes in that game? Because he thought Clark was the father? What?

As soon as he learns he’s the father, he’s all inspired? How is that Batman? If Batman never met Lois Lane once, he’d fight to save her life in that moment. Maybe I’m missing something.
Click to expand...

Well, at least for once, Batfleck was motivated by something OTHER than someone close to him getting killed. So... progress?
 
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