🇮🇱🇵🇸 The Israel-Palestine Politics Thread II

[Midnyte_Sun]

There is no Israeli/Palestine Conflict - Israel Controls Everything Already

"Contrary to what's been reported in the news for years, there is no Israeli-Palestinian conflict. None, zero, zilch, diddly-squat. I can say with confidence that Palestinians have no agency. The Israeli government controls everything in the country. This total control which is most magnified in the West Bank, concerns everything from where Palestinians are permitted to travel, to how much water they consume per month. Currently, there is no 'conflict,' only the omnipresent power of the Israeli government and those who resist it. This is important to understand."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-sheppard/i-traveled-to-palestine_b_4761896.html

 

[chaseter]

I quit reading when he associated slavery. He tries to give a history lesson and then says his ancestors were captured and brought over. Your ancestors sold their brethren. The 300 year old chip on your shoulder slavery crap is also ridiculous. Hey guess what, no one in America except for the Native Americans have a rightful homeland in the US. What a dumb comment.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I quit reading when he associated slavery. He tries to give a history lesson and then says his ancestors were captured and brought over. Your ancestors sold their brethren. The 300 year old chip on your shoulder slavery crap is also ridiculous. Hey guess what, no one in America except for the Native Americans have a rightful homeland in the US. What a dumb comment.

Not reading someone's experiences in an occupied prison country because you disagree with his interpretation of slavery is well... Your profile pic is fitting for my reaction.

 

[chaseter]

Yeah it's just like slavery. Great comparison. Remember that time when the slaves and the slave owners bickered over religious borders and wouldn't allow the other on their own side? Crazy times.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Yeah it's just like slavery. Great comparison. Remember that time when the slaves and the slave owners bickered over religious borders and wouldn't allow the other on their own side? Crazy times.

"My ancestors were captured from various regions of Africa and forced onto ships bound for the Americas. Therefore, when questioned about the geographic origins of my ancestors, my answers were as vague as Africa is big."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-sheppard/i-traveled-to-palestine_b_4761896.html

He never said occupation is slavery. It would help to read the article to get the proper context of his statements. All he said (in one brief statement) was that he couldn't understand the concept of nationalism because he was a descendant of slaves (irregardless of who you or him want to blame for it) and didn't know what part of Africa his ancestors came from.

As for slavery and 50+ year Israeli occupation & apartheid, although they are fairly different concepts, there are some similarities between the two, but the Israeli oppression is more equated with the treatment of Native aboriginal populations:

1) Treated subhuman - Check
2) Diet, Water, and property controlled and regulated - Check
3) Everybody under surveillance - Check
4) Isolated communities, divided families - Check
5) Systematic oppression - Check
6) Religious persecution - Check
7) Corralled in cages as they travel - Check
8) Ethnic/Cultural history being systematically erased - Check
9) Perpetuated through colonialism - Check

Slavery would be inaccurate because the slaves were needed by the colonial powers that controlled them for manual labour. Israel doesn't want or want to need the Palestinians because they will change the demographic of the nation and its politics. Therefore, they are being pushed out, slowly, over decades until people stop caring. There are currently estimated to be 5 million Palestinian refugees today.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Israel to ethnically cleanse 100,000 Arabs from East Jerusalem

From the mid-1990s, thousands of Palestinians from Jerusalem had their permanent residency status revoked under rightist and center-left governments

A decade later, under the cover of the Second Intifada, Israel built a separation barrier that cut off eight East Jerusalem neighborhoods from the rest of the city, deliberately transforming them into poverty-stricken ghettos whose residents live under constant fear of losing their residency status and being completely disconnected from the city — both geographically and politically.

From its inception, permanent residency status has always been a threat looming over East Jerusalem residents — long before Netanyahu’s latest plans were announced. Israel’s self-ordained “democratic” camp silently accepted Benjamin Netanyahu’s proposal to revoke the permanent residency status of 100,000 Palestinians who live in those East Jerusalem neighborhoods that lie beyond the separation barrier last month.

Source: http://972mag.com/netanyahus-transfer-plan-is-met-with-silent-complicity/113894/

 

[chaseter]

"My ancestors were captured from various regions of Africa and forced onto ships bound for the Americas. Therefore, when questioned about the geographic origins of my ancestors, my answers were as vague as Africa is big."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-sheppard/i-traveled-to-palestine_b_4761896.html

He never said occupation is slavery. It would help to read the article to get the proper context of his statements. All he said (in one brief statement) was that he couldn't understand the concept of nationalism because he was a descendant of slaves (irregardless of who you or him want to blame for it) and didn't know what part of Africa his ancestors came from.

As for slavery and 50+ year Israeli occupation & apartheid, although they are fairly different concepts, there are some similarities between the two, but the Israeli oppression is more equated with the treatment of Native aboriginal populations:

1) Treated subhuman - Check
2) Diet, Water, and property controlled and regulated - Check
3) Everybody under surveillance - Check
4) Isolated communities, divided families - Check
5) Systematic oppression - Check
6) Religious persecution - Check
7) Corralled in cages as they travel - Check
8) Ethnic/Cultural history being systematically erased - Check
9) Perpetuated through colonialism - Check

Slavery would be inaccurate because the slaves were needed by the colonial powers that controlled them for manual labour. Israel doesn't want or want to need the Palestinians because they will change the demographic of the nation and its politics. Therefore, they are being pushed out, slowly, over decades until people stop caring. There are currently estimated to be 5 million Palestinian refugees today.

Jews are descendants of slaves so his asinine comparison is ultimately idiotic as he tries to associate himself into what's going on...even though he is 200 years separated in generations from enslaved ancestors.

How about we compare it to the Holocaust?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Jews are descendants of slaves so his asinine comparison is ultimately idiotic as he tries to associate himself into what's going on...even though he is 200 years separated in generations from enslaved ancestors.

How about we compare it to the Holocaust?

I think he associated himself with whats going on by physically going there and seeing whats going on. I can't believe you're still caught up over something he didn't even say.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Israel to seize 370 Acres of Palestinian Land in the Occupied West Bank

US Ambassador Dan Shapiro also said Monday that Washington was “concerned and perplexed” by Israel’s settlement policy which he said raised “honest questions about Israel’s long-term intentions.”

“This government and previous Israeli governments have repeatedly expressed support for a negotiated settlement that would involve mutual recognition and separation,” he said. “Yet separation will become more and more difficult” if Israel continues to expand settlements, Shapiro said.

The anticipated appropriation was expected to garner negative responses from the European Union, United States and Palestinian Authority, Army Radio reported.

Link: http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-announce-major-land-seizure-in-jordan-valley/

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

IDF and Israeli Settlers Terrorize Palestinian Town

SALFIT (Ma'an) -- A group of Israeli settlers escorted by Israeli military forces raided the village of Yasuf in the northern West Bank district of Salfit on Saturday.
The head of the Yasuf village council, Hafith Ebayya, said that a group of Israeli settlers raided the village and attempted to enter the al-Basatin area in central Yasuf.
Ebayya said that the settlers were escorted by military vehicles and soldiers, and that a military checkpoint was set up at the entrance of the village.

Three quarters of Yasuf’s lands are located in Area C -- under full Israeli military and administrative control. According to a report by the Applied Research Institute-Jerusalem (ARIJ), over the years, some 602 dunams (148.7 acres) of Yasuf land have been seized to establish settlement housing.

Several Israeli settlements are located near Yasuf, including Ariel, the fourth largest settlement in the West Bank. These settlements in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem are illegal under international law.

Source: http://maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=770470

 

[Taarna]

Israel to seize 370 Acres of Palestinian Land in the Occupied West Bank

US Ambassador Dan Shapiro also said Monday that Washington was “concerned and perplexed” by Israel’s settlement policy which he said raised “honest questions about Israel’s long-term intentions.”

“This government and previous Israeli governments have repeatedly expressed support for a negotiated settlement that would involve mutual recognition and separation,” he said. “Yet separation will become more and more difficult” if Israel continues to expand settlements, Shapiro said.

The anticipated appropriation was expected to garner negative responses from the European Union, United States and Palestinian Authority, Army Radio reported.

Link: http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-announce-major-land-seizure-in-jordan-valley/

A quick history lesson.

There was never a nation called Palestine, and the West Bank is not a nation either.

The Palenstinal leaders are a bad lot, voting for war and launching attacks. If they stopped, Isreal would not feel threatened to move and the world would become more sympathetic to their plight.

Egypt, Jordan, and Saudia Arabia don't seem willing to give them any land either.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

^ Historic revisionism won't save Israel from a pluralistic fate. 5 Million Palestinian refugees, Berlin-style Walls, Racist Laws meant to discriminate against Non Jews, and an Apartheid worse than South Africa isn't going to go real well with the rest of their neighbors or the world. Israel may be a state, but it is sinking into a Pariah state.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Israeli Settlers protected by the IDF steal 150 Acres of Palestinian farm land

During 2015, Jordan Valley settlements appropriated 600 dunams (150 acres) of Palestinian farmland in an area that is off-limits to Palestinians for “security reasons.”

After the West Bank was occupied in 1967, the Israel Defense Forces issued Military Order 151, which prohibits Palestinians from entering the area between the border fence and the Jordan River. This order remained in effect even after the signing of the peace treaty with Jordan.

The area contains tens of thousands of dunams of Palestinian-owned land that was cultivated by the Palestinians until they were shut out.

As for the Palestinian plots that are being farmed by settlers, the state refused to take a position and instead is trying to come to an agreement with the Palestinians on compensation, so far without success.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...al&utm_source=***********&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[Taarna]

A quick history lesson.

There was never a nation called Palestine, and the West Bank is not a nation either.

The Palenstinal leaders are a bad lot, voting for war and launching attacks. If they stopped, Isreal would not feel threatened to move and the world would become more sympathetic to their plight.

Egypt, Jordan, and Saudia Arabia don't seem willing to give them any land either.

^ Historic revisionism won't save Israel from a pluralistic fate. 5 Million Palestinian refugees, Berlin-style Walls, Racist Laws meant to discriminate against Non Jews, and an Apartheid worse than South Africa isn't going to go real well with the rest of their neighbors or the world. Israel may be a state, but it is sinking into a Pariah state.

And if the Palestinians, the people dancing in the streets on 911 had peaceful intentions they would have had their own state by now.

 

[moviedoors]

And if the Palestinians, the people dancing in the streets on 911 had peaceful intentions they would have had their own state by now.

Myth.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp

 

[Taarna]

Myth.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp

More like fact. THere are many links to show you.


https://video.search.yahoo.com/vide...011&hsimp=yhs-fullyhosted_011&hspart=iry&tt=b



https://video.search.yahoo.com/vide...011&hsimp=yhs-fullyhosted_011&hspart=iry&tt=b

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Taarna,

You keep stating that Palestine never existed, but you forget neither did the current state of Israel before WW2. The nation of Israel was founded on Jewish Terrorism, threats, assassinations, ethnic cleansing, and glorifying terrorist leaders. Israel had America and Europe on their side to funnel in weapons, technology, and even nuclear weapons technology. The Palestinians had only revolutionary Iran, a few Arab puppet states who had recently been created by British Mandates and the partitioning of the Ottoman empire. Their dystopian Jewish state is now worse than an apartheid with discriminatory laws that favor Jews over Non Jews.

Some questions you regretfully ignore: Why did Israel bomb the US Naval Ship USS Liberty and murder US Sailors? Why is it spying on the United States and how did it illegally obtain nuclear weapons?

Nation or not, the currently government of Israel is hell bent on ethnic cleansing and getting the apathetic people in Israel and abroad to believe in their fears. They are sponsoring American hate groups that constantly attack American Muslims, some of which, even rationalized the terrorism of Anders Breivik, the xenophobic terrorist who murdered over 75 people.

"The Best Democracy In the Middle East" is currently on its path of ethnically cleansing the Arabs:

 

[Dr. Evil]

Israel to ethnically cleanse 100,000 Arabs from East Jerusalem

From the mid-1990s, thousands of Palestinians from Jerusalem had their permanent residency status revoked under rightist and center-left governments

A decade later, under the cover of the Second Intifada, Israel built a separation barrier that cut off eight East Jerusalem neighborhoods from the rest of the city, deliberately transforming them into poverty-stricken ghettos whose residents live under constant fear of losing their residency status and being completely disconnected from the city — both geographically and politically.

From its inception, permanent residency status has always been a threat looming over East Jerusalem residents — long before Netanyahu’s latest plans were announced. Israel’s self-ordained “democratic” camp silently accepted Benjamin Netanyahu’s proposal to revoke the permanent residency status of 100,000 Palestinians who live in those East Jerusalem neighborhoods that lie beyond the separation barrier last month.

Source: http://972mag.com/netanyahus-transfer-plan-is-met-with-silent-complicity/113894/

So they are basically doing the same thing the Nazis did to them 70 years ago.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

So they are basically doing the same thing the Nazis did to them 70 years ago.

Basically, except Israeli concentration camps give Arabs still living under occupation enough food & water to live, but not enough to thrive. They have systematically destroyed every industry Palestinians created, including their Olive industry. Those trees take decades to fruit and they have been systematically burning them down and giving the land to Israeli settlers. Zionists claim Judaism and Zionism are internally linked but there are many Jews who reject the entire notion of a Zionist state for Jews.

Ethnic cleansing is not a conspiracy, its policy.

The solution, according to the war criminal and Israel founder, Ben-Gurion, was that “it would be better to expel” the Arabs than allow them to remain, thus ensuring a homogenous Jewish state. (Quoted in The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949, by Benny Morris, Cambridge University Press, 1987, p. 28.) Moreover, Ben-Gurion and other Zionist leaders accepted the UN partition only as a preliminary stage. They dreamed that eventually Israel would consist of all of historic Palestine from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I wonder how Jews in other countries feel about the actions of the Israelis toward the Palestinians.

 

[Taarna]

Taarna,

You keep stating that Palestine never existed, but you forget neither did the current state of Israel before WW2.

The state never existed. World War 2 was a long time ago. Isreal has been a state for 68 years, which is about the average lifespan of a Paleistian.

Now, if you want to see which group funds terrorism or launches 100's of attacks on the other, you'll see where the trouble starts.

With the Paleseitnans. No nation who has people attacking them is going want the other group to live among them. Not one.

Just imagine if some rogue group in Canada or Mexico was firing 100's of missiles at the USA and using suicide bombers to attack USA citizens. What do you think would happen to those people?

IMO, those unfortunate souls not involved in the attack, but living in the area of origin would not be here for long.

Isreal's restraint is astounding. They have the ability to do what they wish. I suppose one day the Palentistnas' might become competent enough to do real damage, and when that happens Isreal's retaliation will solve all problems for a while.

Their best play for the Palestinians police their own and try diplomacy, but with their teaching of hate which starts and childhood, and sometimes radical views on Islam, it's not very likely.

I am for a Palestinian nation somewhere on the west bank, but they must understand they are getting their own nation, and must behave. I'm also for Isreal sharing some water and resources. I am also for Isreal letting the Palestinian's have a small port on the Mediterranean sea with a secure 2 lane road back and forth controlled by Isreal. But it all starts with trust, and I see little or none from the Palestinian's.

The other option is to buy land from Egypt or Jordan, allowing Palestinians to move to their new state if they want to.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

The state never existed. World War 2 was a long time ago. Isreal has been a state for 68 years, which is about the average lifespan of a Paleistian.

That's not an excuse. Israel created a 5 Million Palestinian refugee problem and instead, shifted responsibility to neighboring Arab states.

Now, if you want to see which group funds terrorism or launches 100's of attacks on the other, you'll see where the trouble starts.

You're not looking deep enough into the conflict. To say only ONE side attacks the other without looking at what the other side has done and is doing is short sighted and naive.

If you want to see the root of the conflicts, you have to go back to the source. The West Bank is under full civil and security control by Israel, hence OCCUPATION. If an Israeli is granted access to your land in America, and you have no say to your defense, and all the laws are skewed so that Israeli could steal your land, are you going to just walk away and go get a passport to the United States and settle there? Or are you going to be homeless and on the streets? Since January, 435 people, including 235 minors have been left homeless. And that's only in the West Bank.

Just imagine if some rogue group in Canada or Mexico was firing 100's of missiles at the USA and using suicide bombers to attack USA citizens. What do you think would happen to those people?

That's not an an honest example. The example would be if Indigenous people living in the USA were evicted from their homes, humiliated and attacked on a daily basis, and every aspect of their lives controlled by a military authority for a country that treats them less than human, what DO YOU think will happen to those people?

Isreal's restraint is astounding.

I guess they haven't resorted to nuclear weapons yet. Selective reasoning isn't going to save you. Israel routinely resorts to collective punishment.

They have the ability to do what they wish. I suppose one day the Palentistnas' might become competent enough to do real damage, and when that happens Isreal's retaliation will solve all problems for a while.

So you're hoping for ethnic cleansing? Good to know.

Their best play for the Palestinians police their own and try diplomacy, but with their teaching of hate which starts and childhood, and sometimes radical views on Islam, it's not very likely.

The same goes for the other side. Jews are taught non Jews are less than human. They are taught in school that Arabs are enemies, and terrorist Israelis are venerated, to the point of streets named after them, and even one became a Prime Minister.

I am for a Palestinian nation somewhere on the west bank, but they must understand they are getting their own nation, and must behave. I'm also for Isreal sharing some water and resources. I am also for Isreal letting the Palestinian's have a small port on the Mediterranean sea with a secure 2 lane road back and forth controlled by Isreal. But it all starts with trust, and I see little or none from the Palestinian's.

I'm not for a Palestinian state. I'm for a just and pluralistic Israel that does not have laws for Jews and Non Jews, that does not believe in exclusion, but inclusion. Right now it is an apartheid state that at risk of becoming a Jewish dystopia.

The other option is to buy land from Egypt or Jordan, allowing Palestinians to move to their new state if they want to.

There are already millions of Palestinians in Egypt and Jordan collectively.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I wonder how Jews in other countries feel about the actions of the Israelis toward the Palestinians.

Depends. Some ultra orthodox Jews do not believe in Israel, . Yet there are many Jews in Europe and the US that are apathetic to it. Israel offers American Jews a free paid vacation to Israel for brainwashing, excluding Palestinian refugees ofcourse. If that tells you how desperate they are in manipulating Jewry and getting them to move to Israel. They are afraid that Arabs are outbreeding them so they want to import as many as possible. Kind of like Ellis Island for Americans for manifest destiny..except its for Jews only.

 

[Taarna]

Midnyte Sun,

You might as well come out as a registered lobbyist for Palestinians.

You're too short sided to see that many of the groups problems are based on their leadership's choices.

I'll say it again, not one nation on this earth is going to tolerate 100's of attacks against it. Yet, this is what we see.

I do not believe you when you say you are against a Palestinian state.

Also, Isreal does not consider Palestinians living in the West bank or Gaza as citizens. I'm not up on the population totals or birth rates, but it seems like you want one very tiny nation to take them all in...a group that hates them, in hopes they can obtain some sort of democratic voting majority.

Man, you're transparent.

 

[hippie_hunter]

He's not a registered lobbyist for the Palestinians, you just have some bizarre allergy to basic facts.