2012: A Monster Year? (box office predictions) - Part 3

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Rachel's *****slap to Bruce is a more apt comparison.

I wish that scene went like this.

[YT]vZEvGaU0NHs[/YT]

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I never liked the fact that Nolan made Bruce Wayne look like a lost puppy well into his adulthood.

Thank God some chick slapped sense into Bruce as an adult and he learned ninjitsu as an adult. That totally explains why Batman is so incredibly skilled and dedicated.

 

[Marvin]

I never liked the fact that Nolan made Bruce Wayne look like a lost puppy well into his adulthood.

Thank God some chick slapped sense into Bruce as an adult and he learned ninjitsu as adult. That totally explains why Batman is so incredibly skilled and dedicated.

I would argue that this Batman you describe is never fully realized or presented on screen. Moreover, If it's not Alfred he needs patronizing from it's Fox he needs doing his job for him.

At this point I look to nolans villains to provide characterization of batman I've always wanted to adapted from page to screen.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I never liked the fact that Nolan made Bruce Wayne look like a lost puppy well into his adulthood.

Thank God some chick slapped sense into Bruce as an adult and he learned ninjitsu as an adult. That totally explains why Batman is so incredibly skilled and dedicated.

Oh yes, it was a *****slap that convinced Bruce to become a symbol for justice and hope. Bruce's decision to leave everything behind in order to understand the criminal mind had nothing to do with the fact that his parents were shot down in front of him, Rachel reminding him of his parents' legacy being destroyed by organized crime and corruption, and what his parents stood for.

I'm terribly sorry you didn't get your karate kid montage.

 

[chaseter]

Anything is better than Peter Parker following his dead fathers notes to OSCORP where becomes Spider-Man...vomit.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Oh yes, it was a *****slap that convinced Bruce to become a symbol for justice and hope. Bruce's decision to leave everything behind in order to understand the criminal mind had nothing to do with the fact that his parents were shot down in front of him, Rachel reminding him of his parents' legacy being destroyed by organized crime and corruption, and what his parents stood for.

I'm terribly sorry you didn't get your karate kid montage.

"The slap was symbol of justice and hope". What a bunch of apologist nonsense.

Bruce Wayne is not just some lost soul searching for purpose and direction. He never was.

Bruce knew he was committed to becoming the ultimate crime fighter the night his parents were shot in front of him. Every second of every following day was completely devoted to mastering the skills needed achieve those goals. The training process was far more sophisticated and various than karate kid simply waxing cars. And it explains why Batman is a master at scientific method, deduction, tracking, escape artistry, counter-surveillance, espionage, psychological profiling, most forms of combat (not just ninjitsu), bomb diffusion, interrogation, projectiles, sabotage, guerrilla warfare, counter-intelligence, the art of war, reconnaissance, piloting various vehicles, criminology, forensics, disguise, etc.

To adequately explain Batman's incredible skill-set, readiness, adaptability and knowledge you need the proper background. The guy is like a Navy Seal, Sherlock Holmes, Houdini, Jason Bourne, Bruce Lee, Jack Ryan, Solid Snake, Indiana Jones, and Leon the Professional wrapped in one. He's not God but he pretty much can beat those guys at their own game.

He doesn't become Batman because he got slapped into focus at 20 years old before learning some ninjitsu. lmao!

(and it's ironic you mention a karate kid montage because we'll likely get an uninspired one of those during TDKR when Bruce has to recover and become Batman again. t

 

[DACrowe]

double

 

[DACrowe]

I think it's funny fans can get outraged that Bruce Wayne was depicted as a confused young man or that he ever took even minimal common sense advice from anyone in his entire being. Because as we all all know, Batman must be a god of infallible brilliance and it is to ruin the character for him to show any emotion or uncertainty at any point in his existence.

I'm not picking on you, but I really don't see what the big deal is of showing a muddled and confused Bruce Wayne in his youth. In the comics he disappears for seven years without telling anybody where he went and just drops off the face of the Earth and doesn't return until he's closer to 30 than 25. He obviously had issues he had to work through and while learning the tricks of his trade of becoming Batman he was on a journey of self-discovery. Having him start that journey as a confused boy who wants revenge and deciding to throw himself to the wind and learn a different way is intriguing storytelling and feels genuinely human.

But I suppose having him decide because a bat flew through the window of his father's study while he was praying causing him to "I got it, pops" at 8-years-old and form that point on being a disciplined genius making a B-line to Batman is how some see the character. It's also kind of boring and unrealistic. I have no problem with BB's depiction though. That's just my opinion.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

It's not boring for Bruce to overcome dozens of life-threatening and demoralizing trials and tribulations to master every skill necessary to become the ultimate human hero. It's actually a incredible example of what the human spirit is capable of when tremendous drive, resources, and natural talent all are focused like a laser toward a seemingly impossible goal.

Batman is the ultimate self-made man. The day after he witnessed his parents killed he devoted his childhood and every fiber of his being to perfecting himself for a one man war against injustice by the early molding his childish mind and body into a highly skilled, cunning, hardened warrior/detective with a decade of seeking out dozens of the world's most advanced mentors with the skills needed in the hidden corners of the world. If you find that less interesting than a confused billionaire who has zero direction well into his adulthood and during the 25th hour becomes one of the greatest superheroes with a few months of ninja training then your obviously blinded by the Nolan hype.

Realism? Sorry but saying Nolan's brief focus and training origin is more realistic makes absolutely no sense. If anything it suggest that anyone can be Batman with some college, ninjitsu and trust fund.

In fact, the gifted child who puts his complete energies and time into becoming a legendary superhero is the only reasonable explanation of Batman's mastery of all things related to crime fighting by his twenties or thirties.

 

[chaseter]

I am really confused how you bombast Nolan yet eat up some of the crap Webb puts on your plate. Peter becomes Spider-Man at OSCORP because of his father's work on spiders? WTF!?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I am really confused how you bombast Nolan yet eat up some of the crap Webb puts on your plate. Peter becomes Spider-Man at OSCORP because of his father's work on spiders? WTF!?

I've seen an accurate origin for Spider-man done in a major movie already.

For Batman? Not even close.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Bruce Wayne is not just some lost soul searching for purpose and direction.

He is in Batman Begins.

 

[chaseter]

I've seen an accurate origin for Spider-man done in a major movie already.

For Batman? Not even close.

So it's ok for Webb to change the origins drastically because Raimi already did it pretty close? But, how dare Nolan...?

See the hypocrisy in that?

How dare Rachel have a hand, pun, in Bruce realizing he's a *****e bag that needs to straighten up but all hail Webb for making Richard Parker the reason how Peter becomes Spider-Man...not why...but how.

 

[craigdbfan]

I've seen an accurate origin for Spider-man done in a major movie already.

For Batman? Not even close.

Never saw Batman Begins huh.

That's a lot closer than "not even close". Aside from not starting his martial arts training when he was 12 and the merging of Ducard and Ra's it's almost dead on with most interpretations of the beginnings of Batman.

Have you read Year One by any chance?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

MD's logic is once again wrong and makes no sense. He's being incredibly hypocritical.

 

[Marvin]

I am really confused how you bombast Nolan yet eat up some of the crap Webb puts on your plate. Peter becomes Spider-Man at OSCORP because of his father's work on spiders? WTF!?

what are you getting at?

from my understanding dude's slighting nolans take for not "ralistically" portraying what it takes/took to become batman in the origin. (Let it be known that I personally have no problem with this because nolan never once presents his batman as all that impressive, still confused how anything can feel as such). If nolans bats was anything even close to the prowess monster of the comics, I would have to agree with MD. It's just not enough.
Nolans bats does actually seem more like a rich guy with some time and a few lessons under his belt. He doesn't even seem all that upset either.

with ASM, a film no one here has seen yet mind you, Peter becomes a costumed vigilante after being given godly powers and a personal motivation some would call vendetta(at first). Not sure how this oscorp stuff fits in here. Care to explain.

 

[chaseter]

No one has seen ASM on here? News to me.

I will post it in spoilers in just a sec, on my phone.

 

[chaseter]

Spoiler

Richard was experimenting on spiders and the reactor room with all the spiders was his doing. He also created the webbing formula that Peter uses. Peter invents the web shooter but not the webbing formula

That is what reviewers on here have said. So in other words, Peter goes to OSCORP to learn about his dead dad and gets the powers because of his father's work. It's not random anymore. Richard Parker seems to now be the reason how Peter becomes Spider-Man. Ben is still the reason why he becomes Spider-Man.

That is lame to me.

 

[DACrowe]

It's not boring for Bruce to overcome dozens of life-threatening and demoralizing trials and tribulations to master every skill necessary to become the ultimate human hero. It's actually a incredible example of what the human spirit is capable of when tremendous drive, resources, and natural talent all are focused like a laser toward a seemingly impossible goal.

Batman is the ultimate self-made man. The day after he witnessed his parents killed he devoted his childhood and every fiber of his being to perfecting himself for a one man war against injustice by the early molding his childish mind and body into a highly skilled, cunning, hardened warrior/detective with a decade of seeking out dozens of the world's most advanced mentors with the skills needed in the hidden corners of the world. If you find that less interesting than a confused billionaire who has zero direction well into his adulthood and during the 25th hour becomes one of the greatest superheroes with a few months of ninja training then your obviously blinded by the Nolan hype.

Realism? Sorry but saying Nolan's brief focus and training origin is more realistic makes absolutely no sense. If anything it suggest that anyone can be Batman with some college, ninjitsu and trust fund.

In fact, the gifted child who puts his complete energies and time into becoming a legendary superhero is the only reasonable explanation of Batman's mastery of all things related to crime fighting by his twenties or thirties.

Sorry, I find the idea of an entire character's journey being complete by 8-years-old and from that point on everything he does is done with unfaltering self-rigthesouness and that in the totality of his life he never experienced doubt or second-guessed this lifestyle is kind of boring and unrealistic.

I think a boy who saw his parents gunned down being filled with anger, vengeance and a confusion of what to do with his warped life developing the need to work these issues out by becoming a "symbol" of righting injustice is more believable. He doesn't just decide to do it one day, but slowly discovers he needs to do it to fulfill himself a very human story. It's psychologically believable. A 40-year-old man should not be in the same place as an 8-year-old. So, his ability to want Batman to be a temporary solution eating away at his soul is, again, very interesting. Even TAS caught on to the latter part when they explored what this sort of crusade would do to an older Bruce in "Batman Beyond."

I know a lot of writers write Batman to be infallible and never having a second of self-doubt. But that's a very dull version of the character to me. It let's him stand next to Superman and Wonder Woman easier because he has an almost godlike ability of knowledge and unlimited skill, but you no longer believe it's a man in a suit. He is now as much a "Greek god" as the other DC heroes.

BTW in BB he trained for seven years, his training with the League of Shadows was just perfecting his martial arts and operative skills. I respect you disliking it, but I think it's a solid origin for him that grounds Bruce Wayne into believability. For him to have a few years of being directionless (probably his late teens and early 20s, like they are for many people) before he finds himself works for me. Just an opinion.

 

[CConn]

The real flaw in BB wasn't the fact it took Bruce so long to figure out what to do, it's that they made him such a whiny little child (not Anakin-level bad or anything, but still not very likable) during his process of self-discovery.

Which, yes, does make logical sense, but they also could've characterized him as a more inwardly angry/confused person kinda like Keaton did the character, and still have him go through the same actual physical series of events that take place in BB. Then he would've been more likeable, still "realistic", and actually closer to what Bruce was in the comics.

 

[chaseter]

That's the flaw with DC heroes...they are all morally just infallible god like beings.

 

[CConn]

No, that's just a common misconception had by people who don't know what they're talking about.

 

[jacobed]

I am really confused how you bombast Nolan yet eat up some of the crap Webb puts on your plate. Peter becomes Spider-Man at OSCORP because of his father's work on spiders? WTF!?

Have you even seen the movie, that's not really how it goes.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Sorry, I find the idea of an entire character's journey being complete by 8-years-old and from that point on everything he does is done with unfaltering self-rigthesouness and that in the totality of his life he never experienced doubt or second-guessed this lifestyle is kind of boring and unrealistic.

I think a boy who saw his parents gunned down being filled with anger, vengeance and a confusion of what to do with his warped life developing the need to work these issues out by becoming a "symbol" of righting injustice is more believable. He doesn't just decide to do it one day, but slowly discovers he needs to do it to fulfill himself a very human story. It's psychologically believable. A 40-year-old man should not be in the same place as an 8-year-old. So, his ability to want Batman to be a temporary solution eating away at his soul is, again, very interesting. Even TAS caught on to the latter part when they explored what this sort of crusade would do to an older Bruce in "Batman Beyond."

I know a lot of writers write Batman to be infallible and never having a second of self-doubt. But that's a very dull version of the character to me. It let's him stand next to Superman and Wonder Woman easier because he has an almost godlike ability of knowledge and unlimited skill, but you no longer believe it's a man in a suit. He is now as much a "Greek god" as the other DC heroes.


BTW in BB he trained for seven years, his training with the League of Shadows was just perfecting his martial arts and operative skills. I respect you disliking it, but I think it's a solid origin for him that grounds Bruce Wayne into believability. For him to have a few years of being directionless (probably his late teens and early 20s, like they are for many people) before he finds himself works for me. Just an opinion.

We also don't know what he did when he was younger, beyond that he went through university at one point. We know that he is consumed by revenge until Joe Chill's death, but we know nothing about his training or experiences from the period immediately after the death of his parents until he comes back from university. He could have been training at 12. We just didn't see it.

We know he was skilled prior to meeting Ra's because he has no problem wiping the floor with that gang in the Chinese prison.

If people dislike Batman Begins because of Batman not being infallible, they must really hate BTAS because he shows doubts there and makes mistakes all the time.

 

[CConn]

Again, I guarantee its not because of him bei infallible, it's merely because of his characterization.