2012: A Monster Year? (box office predictions) - Part 4

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People also said OW as depreciated by the shooting so the 2nd weekend drop should be cushioned but how can anyone judge that. People that stayed away last weekend could just as well stay away this weekend.

TDKR never had the factor of Ledger's Joker. But they certainly could've made up for some of it with Catwoman. Anne was fantastic in the movie and she brought the fun in, but she was in so little of the movie that its effect is minimal.
I wish they had fit Catwoman in better and excised Tate all together and cut back on Blake's story a bit. The movie would have been much better if they did these things. I still like it though and will see it again and I'm happy that it's doing well.
 
Perfectly agreed, she needed to be integrated a lot more into the movie while throwing Tate out. Pointless plot twist for the sake of surprise that has no backing behind it.
 
People also said OW as depreciated by the shooting so the 2nd weekend drop should be cushioned but how can anyone judge that. People that stayed away last weekend could just as well stay away this weekend.

TDKR never had the factor of Ledger's Joker. But they certainly could've made up for some of it with Catwoman. Anne was fantastic in the movie and she brought the fun in, but she was in so little of the movie that its effect is minimal.

I personally think the Catwoman in this was a slim novelty at best. "Nolans Catwoman" played solid by a surprising choice. People are making more out of her than what was really put on screen. The only reason I really recall any of her goings on is because no one else really stood out(especially the other females). Moreover, unlike heath(for example), Hathaway didn't doing anything for the feme action role that countless others haven't already. She really didn't do all that much. Not much more than the typical stern but flirty bond female all(see die another day).

I'm not s purist to any of these films but what was done with the character by the surprising choice in Batman Returns was wall to wall more memorable and worth water cooler chat. Outside of Joker I feel this is pretty much what I've come to expect from Nolan's vision. Fresh yet serviceable.

but that's me. Maybe if she had more screen time.
 
If Catwoman had as much much screentime as Blake or Bruce in the movie would she come close to what Heath did? Hell no. But whenever she was on she added a certain factor to the movie that made it pretty fun to watch.
 
Guys this is a 78% drop for the Friday number which of course its huge since it was inflated by the midnight number. So if it ends up with the $55 million weekend number thats just a drop of 66%. Yea that's still bad but its not as bad as you think.

I'm holding out hope that the Friday number was deflated by the Olympics but this movie is not performing like the great WOM people keep saying its getting.
Ah ok, not nearly as bad. I thought he was saying a 78% drop for the weekend!
 
Even if WOM was toxic the drop wouldn't be that bad. Even Potter/Twilight don't drop that hard.
 
I personally think the Catwoman in this was a slim novelty at best. "Nolans Catwoman" played solid by a surprising choice. People are making more out of her than what was really put on screen. The only reason I really recall any of her goings on is because no one else really stood out(especially the other females). Moreover, unlike heath(for example), Hathaway didn't doing anything for the feme action role that countless others haven't already. She really didn't do all that much. Not much more than the typical stern but flirty bond female all(see die another day).

I'm not s purist to any of these films but what was done with the character by the surprising choice in Batman Returns was wall to wall more memorable and worth water cooler chat. Outside of Joker I feel this is pretty much what I've come to expect from Nolan's vision. Fresh yet serviceable.

but that's me. Maybe if she had more screen time.

Catwoman is an archetype, obviously. She was created based on femme fatales in 1940s films. But that doesn't mean she cannot be done great. One could just as easily dismiss the Joker as a character.

Hathaway made this sort of character believable. You mention (ugh) Die Another Day, in which Halle Berry played one of the most disliked Bond girls because she was pure undeveloped camp. Even looking at TA's similarity with Black Widow, she has no particular depth or motivation beyond "getting red off my ledger." TDKR is Batman and Bane's movie, but Catwoman brings a level of levity and fun to it that has not been in any Nolan movie, save how you read Ledger's Joker. And she was grounded just enough audiences believed she was real. And that's the trick with Nolan's popularity. He makes audiences believe in these broad larger-than-life characters.

That is why almost all the reviews, even from those who disliked TDKR, has nothing but praise for Hathaway's Catwoman. While she isn't as iconic as Joker, she probably could have sold the movie more, like Pffeifer's own Catwoman, with a larger role. Oh well.
 
Catwoman is an archetype, obviously. She was created based on femme fatales in 1940s films. But that doesn't mean she cannot be done great. One could just as easily dismiss the Joker as a character.

Hathaway made this sort of character believable. You mention (ugh) Die Another Day, in which Halle Berry played one of the most disliked Bond girls because she was pure undeveloped camp. Even looking at TA's similarity with Black Widow, she has no particular depth or motivation beyond "getting red off my ledger." TDKR is Batman and Bane's movie, but Catwoman brings a level of levity and fun to it that has not been in any Nolan movie, save how you read Ledger's Joker. And she was grounded just enough audiences believed she was real. And that's the trick with Nolan's popularity. He makes audiences believe in these broad larger-than-life characters.

That is why almost all the reviews, even from those who disliked TDKR, has nothing but praise for Hathaway's Catwoman. While she isn't as iconic as Joker, she probably could have sold the movie more, like Pffeifer's own Catwoman, with a larger role. Oh well.

I'm not dismissing the archetype, I'm stating that she was nothing more than just that. A thing many films have had before and really bringing nothing new and exciting to the table. There's only one place to see the marvel that was what Heath did with the psychotic nemesis archetype. A shady female that shows up to "foil" and or help the stren hero here and there throughout the plot equals one thing for me personally. Overrated but serviceable. People have told me Anne stole the show. This saddens me considering I don't she didn't all that much, it speaks more about whom she did the stealing from.

I mention halle because this was basically that done way better. Nothing new. I mention Batman Returns cause that character really earned and stole the show. This character lost my interested when she started helping batman. I don't blame her though, Batman needs help from everyone every day.
 
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I liked ScarJo's Black Widow much better. She had a much greater element of fun and intrigue in the character. Hathaway's Catwoman came off as rather cold and aloof in a lot of ways...and not really in the way that suits Catwoman, IMO.

Personally, I think she was good, but not on the level of Black Widow or Pfeifer.
 
I'm not dismissing the archetype, I'm stating that she was nothing more than just that. A thing many films have had before and really bringing nothing new and exciting to the table. There's only one place to see the marvel that was what Heath did with the psychotic nemesis archetype. A shady female that shows up to "foil" and or help the stren hero here and there throughout the plot equals one thing for me personally. Overrated but serviceable. People have told me Anne stole the show. This saddens me considering I don't she didn't all that much, it speaks more about whom she did the stealing from.

I meantion halle because this was basically that done way better. Nothing new. I mention Batman Returns cause that character really earned and stole the show. This character lost my interested when she started helping batman. I don't blame her though, Batman needs help from everyone every day.
Eh, I honestly think it was more a matter of the performance than the actual writing.
 
I'm not dismissing the archetype, I'm stating that she was nothing more than just that. A thing many films have had before and really bringing nothing new and exciting to the table. There's only one place to see the marvel that was what Heath did with the psychotic nemesis archetype. A shady female that shows up to "foil" and or help the stren hero here and there throughout the plot equals one thing for me personally. Overrated but serviceable. People have told me Anne stole the show. This saddens me considering I don't she didn't all that much, it speaks more about whom she did the stealing from.

I mention halle because this was basically that done way better. Nothing new. I mention Batman Returns cause that character really earned and stole the show. This character lost my interested when she started helping batman. I don't blame her though, Batman needs help from everyone every day.

I think this boils down for your dislike for Nolan's interpretation of the Batman character. I think Anne did steal the show because while she played the femme fatale (and the more modern version where she is neither good nor evil, but gray, as opposed to the evil seductresses of the original form), she did it more memorably for me than anyone since, ironically, Kim Basinger in LA Confidential. Yes that role has appeared in X-Men movies, Daredevil, Iron Man 2/The Avengers and....ugh...Die Another Day, but those are all forgettable. I only even remembered the last one because you mentioned it.

Hathaway took a well-worn archetype and made it fresh, playful, entertaining and most of all believable. The others I listed for the most part were either campy or designated for sex appeal to teenage boys. I believed Hathaway's character was a real person and that is enough to make her stand out. It also helps I prefer a Catwoman who helps Batman to one who wants to kill him.

...And it helps that I like Nolan's take on the main character, large supporting Bat-family and all. :oldrazz:

Just saying.
 
I liked ScarJo's Black Widow much better. She had a much greater element of fun and intrigue in the character. Hathaway's Catwoman came off as rather cold and aloof in a lot of ways...and not really in the way that suits Catwoman, IMO.

Personally, I think she was good, but not on the level of Black Widow or Pfeifer.

To each their own. Pffeifer's version got a lot more on-screen development and wasn't left solely to the actress to flesh out. She also was more German Expressionism than noir as her costume is an entire metaphor for her sanity (as well as her feminism in a very 1990s perspective of that word). She also had a lot more emotional range as she plays a woman grappling with sanity and sexism, as opposed to pragmatism and morality (i.e. Pffeifer had more crazy scenes and was straight up villainous in her want to kill Batman and all male abusers). It is up to personal taste on which you prefer.

I liked BW just fine. But while Whedon gave her a lot more to do, I never really believed ScarJo was this character while, to my surprise, Hathaway's personality completely disappeared into hers. Also, while BW had a bit more to do in terms of amount of scenes, I just thought Selina Kyle was better utilized as a character beyond perfunctory plot movement.

Different strokes and all that.
 
I like Anne more than Pfeiffer because I think she captured the essence of the character way better than Pffeifer did, who just had a lot of scenes where she was allowed to go crazy more. Anne was seductive, sexy, and threatening.

Also, I want to mention I love the scene where she sees Bruce back in Gotham and alive. The look in her eyes said it all.
 
59mill for the second weekend means a 63%drop so word of mouth cant be that good.i saw it and didnt think it was as good as darknight dispite what i was hearing from some people.bane was good but i thought they deflated him at the end as just a lacky.catwoman was not in the film enough neither was alfred jsut thought there was not enough action for a comic book movie maybe it should have been shorter too i even think amazing spiderman was a better movie overall i have to rank this last behind avengers and spiderman
 
Its headed to $425M ish domestic. All things considered a great number.
 
I think Catwoman was one of the best things about TDKR, I have to agree. Hathaway does a great job. Like I have stated before, I think TDKR really just suffered from a sloppy 3rd act more than anything. I have the same complaint about BB, but BB didn't derail nearly as much as TDKR does in act 3.

After more thought since seeing it, I do think TDKR is the 3rd best entry of the series. BB was slightly better and TDK much better. TDKR was prettier than BB and didn't have the shaky cam (which made for great action scenes) but BB has a better script and got me more emotionally invested overall.

Relating my point to the BO, I don't think this movie is getting TDK word of mouth, but I still think people like it. If this movie was getting TDK WOM, even the tragedy wouldn't keep people away to such a high %. But, at the same time, I don't think this is getting poor WOM.
 
It seems that the general audience really loves the movie
 
Its headed to $425M ish domestic. All things considered a great number.

For Batman standards, that's pretty good. People need to remember this isn't Star Wars.


BATMAN GROSSES ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION

1. The Dark Knight (2008) - $588.3 million
2. Batman (1989) - $498.6 million
3. Batman Forever (1995) - $335 million
4. Batman Returns (1992) - $310.7 million
5. Batman Begins (2005) - $253.7 million
6. Dark Knight Rises (2012) - $243 million
7. Batman & Robin (1997) - $185 million
 
For Batman standards, that's pretty good. People need to remember this isn't Star Wars.


BATMAN GROSSES ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION

1. The Dark Knight (2008) - $588.3 million
2. Batman (1989) - $498.6 million
3. Batman Forever (1995) - $335 million
4. Batman Returns (1992) - $310.7 million
5. Batman Begins (2005) - $253.7 million
6. Dark Knight Rises (2012) - $243 million
7. Batman & Robin (1997) - $185 million
425mill is okay if it gets there i think alot of people were expecting it to beat the dark knights 533mill domestic take with all the hype.also with the success of the avengers it seem like a lock before it came out
 
The Batman franchise is in a great place when a 400+ million box office take is considered a disappointment.
 
425 mil is very good. But, the people here hyped it to Avengers territory, which is drawing some disappointment.
 
425 mil is very good. But, the people here hyped it to Avengers territory, which is drawing some disappointment.

You can't take fanboys seriously. Without Joker/Heath Ledger, it was never gonna surpass TDK. At least domestically. It says a lot when the two most successful Batman movies featured The Joker.
 
Fanboys weren't the only ones thinking Rises was going to hit as big as Dark Knight if not bigger. And it probably was, had that event not transpired.
 
You can't take fanboys seriously. Without Joker/Heath Ledger, it was never gonna surpass TDK. At least domestically. It says a lot when the two most successful Batman movies featured The Joker.

It's amazing how obvious that is now. Try saying such a thing month ago and no one was having it.
 
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