6.01 Zod - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Superfreak]

And Chlark are like brother and sister...so hooking them up would be just incest.

no, actually, it would be like incest, but it wouldn't be incest. Clark should nail Chloe. This would serve Smallville's overuse of melodrama, putting a social barrier between Lois and Clark. Causing more relationship nonsense to be resolved as the series progresses

 

[BaK]

^ maybe you 2 should continue that discussion in "relationships" thread..

assuming incest qualifies as a "very special", or rather "superfreaky" kind of relationship..

 

[AgentPat]

They are casting Jimmy Olsen for the premiere. The guy who (at the age of 7...well according to mythology he should be at that age anyway) deflowered SuperChloe.

Heh! When it comes to relative ages in various Superman incarnations, who's what and who *looks* like what, not to mention what we're supposed to believe given a set of pre-established circumstances, a Jimmy Olsen - who is relatively the same age as Chloe (a character created for SV and heretofore only having been a part of SV) - is fine by me.

Might that be the love interest for Miss no-personal-life-at-all? I certainly hope so because I'm no fan of incest (or however you spell that). And Chlark are like brother and sister...so hooking them up would be just incest.

Incest has both cultural and biological components. Depending on the time and culture, it's either fostered or shunned. From a purely scientific POV, Clark having sexual relations with Chloe is no more incest than his sleeping with Lana. He's Kryptonian - an alien. His biology is completely different from humans. He looks human, but he's from another galaxy and is in fact a different species. He's not even sure if he has DNA, though the comics say he has a triple helix. He wouldn't be able to produce any children with humans even if he wanted to. In the words Carl Sagan, humans would have better luck mating with a petunia than with an alien LOL. In an ironic way, this is what makes Clark's love for the human race so bittersweet and special, IMHO.

Or is there any other reason to bring in Jimmy Olsen? I don't see one...

Jimmy Olsen, like Lois Lane and Perry White, are all part of the core Superman mythos. He's one of Clark's peers at the Daily Planet. There's TONS of reasons to bring him onto the show. Hopefully, the love interest angle for Chloe is just plot embellishment for both characters, if they go down that path at all.

 

[avidreader]

DeKnight said on his Blog that they werent allowed to use Jimmy Olsen, although I did find it strange that he suggested a particular actor for the role in a recent group meeting.

 

[RakuMon]

Jimmy Olsen, like Lois Lane and Perry White, are all part of the core Superman mythos. He's one of Clark's peers at the Daily Planet. There's TONS of reasons to bring him onto the show. Hopefully, the love interest angle for Chloe is just plot embellishment for both characters, if they go down that path at all.

I've recently re-watched the Lois & Clark pilot on DVD (which was surprisingly a lot better than I remembered!) and they played Jimmy as more of a contemporary. So much so that Clark even suspected Lois and Jimmy had a thing together! And it worked. So I definitely don't have a problem with SV giving their own take on the character.

Besides, aside from the current movie, Jimmy O hasn't been portrayed as the bow-tied, aw shucks naive kid in years.

 

[Serene]

I think it would be awesome to have Jimmy Olsen make an appearance as a love interest for Chloe. Hey, it's some of that "continuity" that people are always screaming about for this show.

I hope he's more of a cool, free-spirited and independant kind of guy and not just a bow-tie wearing geek.

Unless he's a Chippendale's dancer. I mean fair is fair.. we had Lois do her strip tease, so maybe Jimmy can be a photographer intern at the DP during the day, but at night he moonlights as a hot Chippendales' dancer (hence the bow tie).

I'm a genius, really. They should hire me.

 

[jr24tw]

Incest has both cultural and biological components. Depending on the time and culture, it's either fostered or shunned. From a purely scientific POV, Clark having sexual relations with Chloe is no more incest than his sleeping with Lana. He's Kryptonian - an alien. His biology is completely different from humans. He looks human, but he's from another galaxy and is in fact a different species. He's not even sure if he has DNA, though the comics say he has a triple helix. He wouldn't be able to produce any children with humans even if he wanted to. In the words Carl Sagan, humans would have better luck mating with a petunia than with an alien LOL. In an ironic way, this is what makes Clark's love for the human race so bittersweet and special, IMHO.

I was talking about the brother/sister part. They have the brother/sister chemistry going on. Best friends at most.

Jimmy Olsen, like Lois Lane and Perry White, are all part of the core Superman mythos. He's one of Clark's peers at the Daily Planet. There's TONS of reasons to bring him onto the show. Hopefully, the love interest angle for Chloe is just plot embellishment for both characters, if they go down that path at all.

Yeah but...since when does this show care about the mythology and the characters? Perry isn't Perry. Last we saw him he was a drunk who loved to jump off a bridge. Lois isn't Lois. She is a college drop out who loves to get drunk. But I do agree if you consider how they have written Perry and Lois...Jimmy being way older than he is supposed to be falls right into the twisted minds of the show.

DeKnight said on his Blog that they werent allowed to use Jimmy Olsen, although I did find it strange that he suggested a particular actor for the role in a recent group meeting.

That's what someone told me too. But it is out of his hands what actually happens and who will be brought into the show.

 

[AgentPat]

I was talking about the brother/sister part. They have the brother/sister chemistry going on. Best friends at most.

Fair enough, but "incest" it is not. That's a very strong word.

Clark and Lois are irritants to each other (in a very entertaining way), and they will eventually be married. So, anything can change between friends, lovers, and enemies right now. That's the beauty of the show: seeing them in unlikely relationships now knowing full well where they end up.

Yeah but...since when does this show care about the mythology and the characters?

Well, I disagree. I believe the writers and cast care a great deal about the mythology and how it's presented, and they have both Warners' and DC Comics stamp of approval on their efforts.

Perry isn't Perry. Last we saw him he was a drunk who loved to jump off a bridge. Lois isn't Lois. She is a college drop out who loves to get drunk.

SV embellishes on the character's pasts because they can. It's entertaining, and it adds new flavor to who these people are. Who's to say Perry wasn't an alcoholic at one time, but rose above his demons to become the editor of a great metropolitan newspaper? As to Lois, there's no doubt in my mind the writers would have her working at the DP now if they could. You'll have to take that issue up with Warners' Features Div though.

But I do agree if you consider how they have written Perry and Lois...Jimmy being way older than he is supposed to be falls right into the twisted minds of the show.

Movies on-line recently reviewed SV's fifth season. Here's an excerpt:

...the legend of Superman is only half of "Smallville," because the other half comes from their fresh ideas. When the series first aired, the characters of Chloe Sullivan and Lionel Luthor were wholly unique and new. After five long years of tug-of-war tensions escalating over a love triangle and issues of trust between Clark, Lana, and Chloe, it all came to a forked road this year. Clark and Lana put to rest superhero sexual physics debates by losing their virginity to each other while Clark was temporarily mortal and then breaking up after he regained his powers. In the Season Five premiere last Fall, Chloe discovered the whole truth of Clark's secret after telling him that she knew about his abilities. As a result, Clark confessed his alien origins, and the two have been partners all season long, right to the end when they kissed and parted ways wondering if they would ever see each other again.

Then, on the other side of the aftermath from Clark's break-up with Lana, there is the desperate and fractured relationship that formed between Lana and Lex, another footnote borrowed from Superman's multimedia history. At season's end, Lana found herself unknowingly rushing into the arms of Zod in Lex's body amid the chaos of an apocalypse both bad guys have brought down upon a planet of innocents with Brainiac's help. Lex spent the whole year trying to win Lana over with the misguided truth while she grew ever more frustrated with Clark's lies, and it seems to have worked, but from indications in the show's first ever Christmas episode this year, we know it won't last. While Lex has been making his play for his former best friend's girl, his father has not only transformed into one of the good guys, acting as a conduit for Jor-El and a protector and surrogate father to Clark, but he has quietly indulged his own affection for Martha Kent.

These are just some of the dozens of reasons that Season 5 of "Smallville" was another wonderful year in the life of a young, pre-Superman Clark Kent, not to mention a young, pre-supervillain Lex Luthor. The series has yet to show any significant decline in the overall quality of both its original and canonical material. It always promises to tell the story of the journey from confused and frightened teenaged boy to brave and worldly-wise Superman, as well as that of tormented young man to evil would-be ruler and destroyer of the world, and "Smallville" delivers on these tales of light and dark. There's something to love about this show for every fan of every age. And, as the series draws nearer to its inevitable transition toward the destiny it foreshadows at every turn, the story is likely to get even better and more powerful. So, there's cause to be excited about what Season 6 might have in store for our hero and those around him.

 

[Serene]

That's a really wonderful summary, without bias, of S5. ^

I like it.

 

[retconned]

Lets just hope Smallville goes balls to the walls this season!

 

[avidreader]

Hey that's an awesome review Pat, one which I whole heartedly agree with. Thanks for posting it.

 

[AgentPat]

No prob. The entire review can be read here:
http://www.moviesonline.ca/movienews_9142.html

I forgot to post the link. My bad.

 

[avidreader]

I thought these paragraphs were interesting.

Since the beginning, creators Alfred Gough and Miles Millar have stated that they had a five-year plan for the series that stars Tom Welling as Clark Kent, Michael Rosenbaum as Lex Luthor, and Kristin Kreuk as Lana Lang. With The CW picking up the show for a sixth season when the new hybrid network debuts, that the original plan has clearly been extended to span six years instead of five. This obviously gave the show a lot of room to play, having witnessed what the writers did with Superman and his existing canon as they integrated elements from the "Superman" movies starring Christopher Reeve as well as the comic books.
This season was huge in the way of superdevelopments that are leading to the inevitable future that we know will be Superman. We were brought deeper into Metropolis and spent more time in the city as well as the workplace, The Daily Planet, where Clark will spend his adult life once he finally becomes The Man of Steel. Even though this transformation will never happen on the show as per the stipulations of its creators' "no tights, no flights" policy, there has been more than enough superlore to keep fans happy. General Zod came in to take over the world, and in the season finale, he took possession of Lex Luthor's body, taking advantage of the darkness that was consuming the jaded, bald billionaire, and effectively flashing forward to Lex inflicting Armageddon on the world as he has done in the comics.
That was one of the greatest turns the show took this season to leave its devoted viewers desperate to know what will happen next, but it wasn't even close to being the last punch "Smallville" had to pull. The Phantom Zone, which trapped Zod in the beginning of the season, has now claimed Clark and is spiraling off into outer space as Earth goes to hell in a hand basket courtesy of Lex's partnership with Milton Fine, otherwise known as Brainiac, Krypton's A.I. gone awry.

 

[user123456789]

Well, I disagree. I believe the writers and cast care a great deal about the mythology and how it's presented, and they have both Warners' and DC Comics stamp of approval on their efforts.

It boggles me how WB + DC can create something magnificent like Batman Begins, but continue to put their "stamp of approval" on Smallville.

 

[AgentPat]

It boggles me how WB + DC can create something magnificent like Batman Begins, but continue to put their "stamp of approval" on Smallville.

You're joking, right?

No? Well, life is full of profound mysteries.


Guess I have to post these excerpts again. *sigh* [Pat waves to Pickle]

Daily Variety articles, all published 1/25/06:

Super expectations
Skein satisfies devoted comicbook fan base
By THOMAS MCLEAN

"The sincere respect for the character and the underlying mythos really comes through," says Paul Levitz, president and publisher of DC Comics. "Anything that introduces new generations of people to our characters has to be good for us. There's a lot of people who love Clark Kent and Lex Luthor who didn't four or five years ago, and we think they'll be fans for generations to come the same way those who saw the George Reeves show way back when did."

While some fans may still not like that the show deviates from the comicbooks, that group is relatively small, Levitz says. Still, the show has used more elements from the comics as it goes on, which Levitz says enriches the show for both comicbook fans and the general audience.

"It shows that this show is taking place in a rich universe," he says.

http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&a=VR1117936819&c=2109

WB synergy in full force
Welling, quality of show aids 'Smallville's' success
By MICHAEL SCHNEIDER

...WB Entertainment president David Janollari says several factors led to the show's success, including Welling, and the "fresh take on Superman's teenage years and the consistent quality of the show." And, of course, "the cohesive way divisions like DC, Warner Bros. TV, the WB and the producers have worked closely together to produce a hundred different episodes that remain true to the character's inherent tone and mythology," he says.

http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&a=VR1117936821&c=2109

In touch with their inner teen
Producing team knows what it takes to tap youth market
By KATHY TRACY

...[Brian Robbins] adds, their success with teen audiences isn't so much about their ability to tap into any particular zeitgeist as it is their sense for narrative. "Good stories are good stories, whether teenage stories or adult stories," says Robbins. "It's just about telling stories that interest you, or something you can be passionate about."

Robbins credits "Smallville's" creative maturity to its solid foundation. "We based the show on Clark Kent being an archetypal hero and imbuing it with all these values set in mid-America. It wasn't going to be trendy, it wasn't going to be a faddish show and replace 'Buffy' in sensibilities. And I think that's responsible for some of its staying power -- building characters that had a real place to go."

http://www.variety.com/story.asp?l=story&a=VR1117936816&c=2109

 

[user123456789]

I never meant you were lying....

im just boggled at DC & WB's opinions.

 

[Jlandsw]

It boggles me how WB + DC can create something magnificent like Batman Begins, but continue to put their "stamp of approval" on Smallville.

Batman Begins was terrible! And don't talk about it here, cuz we're SV fans not batman fans.

Since the beginning, creators Alfred Gough and Miles Millar have stated that they had a five-year plan for the series that stars Tom Welling as Clark Kent, Michael Rosenbaum as Lex Luthor, and Kristin Kreuk as Lana Lang. With The CW picking up the show for a sixth season when the new hybrid network debuts, that the original plan has clearly been extended to span six years instead of five. This obviously gave the show a lot of room to play, having witnessed what the writers did with Superman and his existing canon as they integrated elements from the "Superman" movies starring Christopher Reeve as well as the comic books.
This season was huge in the way of superdevelopments that are leading to the inevitable future that we know will be Superman. We were brought deeper into Metropolis and spent more time in the city as well as the workplace, The Daily Planet, where Clark will spend his adult life once he finally becomes The Man of Steel. Even though this transformation will never happen on the show as per the stipulations of its creators' "no tights, no flights" policy, there has been more than enough superlore to keep fans happy. General Zod came in to take over the world, and in the season finale, he took possession of Lex Luthor's body, taking advantage of the darkness that was consuming the jaded, bald billionaire, and effectively flashing forward to Lex inflicting Armageddon on the world as he has done in the comics.
That was one of the greatest turns the show took this season to leave its devoted viewers desperate to know what will happen next, but it wasn't even close to being the last punch "Smallville" had to pull. The Phantom Zone, which trapped Zod in the beginning of the season, has now claimed Clark and is spiraling off into outer space as Earth goes to hell in a hand basket courtesy of Lex's partnership with Milton Fine, otherwise known as Brainiac, Krypton's A.I. gone awry.

What happened to seeing Clark in the Superman outfit by the end of the show. That was confirmed by the creators that it would happen. WTF????
If Smallville doesn't end with Clark in the suit or I will be extremely disappointed!!

 

[user123456789]

Batman Begins was terrible!

ok sir.

i enjoyed batman begins quite a bit.

 

[avidreader]

Batman Begins was terrible! And don't talk about it here, cuz we're SV fans not batman fans.

I've seen the movie at the theatre, and I've watched it twice at home on DVD and every time, I fall asleep.

What happened to seeing Clark in the Superman outfit by the end of the show. That was confirmed by the creators that it would happen. WTF????
If Smallville doesn't end with Clark in the suit or I will be extremely disappointed!!

That would happen at the end of the show, but the actual journey of the show would incorporate a "no flights no tights" rule.

 

[AgentPat]

I never meant you were lying....

I didn't say you were.

im just boggled at DC & WB's opinions.

That's why I posted those quotes. They have very good reason behind those opinions. Reasons that I happen to agree with. If you don't agree with it, that's fine, but it shouldn't be baffling either. The show has done amazing things for the studio, DC Comics, and the franchise in general. It introduced the character to a whole new group of fans, and it brought back preexisting fans that had strayed through the years due to lackluster offerings on both television as well as in the comics. It spawned quite the rabid fan following and helped to jump-start a new film franchise. TPTB have very good reason to be extremely happy with the show, which is why they have given their blessing and collective stamps of approval. Why wouldn't they?

Batman Begins was terrible! And don't talk about it here, cuz we're SV fans not batman fans.

Personally, I liked BB. I think it was the best of all the Batman films. But I agree; such discussion is best left to the Bat forums or Talon thread.

What happened to seeing Clark in the Superman outfit by the end of the show. That was confirmed by the creators that it would happen. WTF???? If Smallville doesn't end with Clark in the suit or I will be extremely disappointed!!

It WILL end that way.

Remember, that was just a review written by a critic who is not affiliated with the show or its producers. "No flights" has already been broken (repeatedly LOL). The show will end with Clark fully embracing his destiny. That destiny involves wearing a skin tight baadowwfit. At the very least, we'll see it in the last episode.

 

[user123456789]

For those of you that are so sure it will end with Tom in the suit...

what if it doesn't? seriously...

 

[Superfreak]

For those of you that are so sure it will end with Tom in the suit...

what if it doesn't? seriously...

I'm kind of hoping it doesn't now. The drama that will follow smallville ending without the tights that will erupt here will be soo entertaining.

 

[user123456789]

I'm kind of hoping it doesn't now. The drama that will follow smallville ending without the tights that will erupt here will be soo entertaining.

LOL

personally i hope he doesn't either... it's one step towards Tom being typecast, in my mind.

 

[Jlandsw]

It WILL end that way.

Remember, that was just a review written by a critic who is not affiliated with the show or its producers. "No flights" has already been broken (repeatedly LOL). The show will end with Clark fully embracing his destiny. That destiny involves wearing a skin tight baadowwfit. At the very least, we'll see it in the last episode.

I really, really hope so!! I love SV to death, it's my favorite show, and i'll be really disappointed if we didn't see him in the suit by the last episode!!

 

[AgentPat]

personally i hope he doesn't either...

Not much of a fan anymore, Boyscout? What's gotten into you recently? Honestly?

it's one step towards Tom being typecast, in my mind.

He keeps himself busy enough with roles in other genres. Typecasting is only an issue if he *can't* get other roles because he's too associated with one character, and that simply isn't the case. If anything, SV has opened many doors for him. I understand he gets tons of job offers. He's just limited by what he can accept due to SV's 9 month shooting sked.

As to being seen as Clark Kent/Superman in the public mind, that ship sailed a while ago. Putting on a Superman suit in the final episode of Smallville isn't going to change things all that much; he's ALREADY got the title. He's a card carrying member of a select group of actors.

A recent (6/25/06) article in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch opened with this excerpt:

Who is Superman?

A correct answer is "Clark Kent"; but depending on your age you might also say "Bud Collyer," "George Reeves," "Christopher Reeve," "Dean Cain" or "Tom Welling."

Indeed.

As to the suit thing, Gough seems pretty definitive on it HAPPENING, and he should know. Here's an excerpt of an interview with Gough from 9/26/05:

...So as Lex continues to get darker as the show progresses, the question must be asked: How many more years will Smallville run?

"I say seven seasons," Gough admits. "It seems to be what shows in this genre can do and do well. Certainly in our case suddenly you're bumping up against 'Why the f*** isn't he putting on the suit?' I say that's probably a good number. Will it end with him putting on the suit? And Lex making that last step to evil? Yeah, absolutely."

There ya have it!