6.18 Progeny - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[dark_b]

this was not a filler episode. thats just how smallville works.


and it is stupid to have 18 a filler episod.e we are coming to the end of season 6. and what is even more funny is that some peopel think that season 7 will be the last season but episode 18 of season 6 had nothing to do with clark since this show is about him.

i think its time to make only episodes about him if 7 is hte last. plus 18 should be about the mai story of season 6 not a filler.

 

[LostSon88]

i dont suspect them to have many seasons after this(this may be the last) so they gotta start fixing things

Um where have you been?, its been like a well known thought that next year is pretty much it...

 

[jr24tw]

Um where have you been?, its been like a well known thought that next year is pretty much it...

Actually AL Gough just said at the Jules Verne Festival they are working on an 8th Season. I can't believe it to be honest. The show has overstayed it's welcome. Besides with some characters probably dying this Season and more leaving after Season 7...who the hell will be in S8? Other than Lois & Clark? And really...that show has been done already.

 

[KalKai]

Everything's been done already, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be done again, and there's nothing confirmed about the deaths, it's pure speculation.

 

[Abaddon]

Pretty weak episode. If it wasnt for the reveal that there never was a baby, it would have been total filler. I admit Lynda Carter did a fantastic job (this coming from someone who thought she had no acting ability based off a few clips of the old WW show), but to me, this retcon destroys the tragedy of Chloe's character. I liked the idea that she was going to go insane, that her mom was in a mental institution. This revelation that she might be trouble, but defintely NOT catatonic crazy... well, its pretty lame.

Yeah, it would've been more interesting if we gradually saw Chloe's sanity decline to the point where she had to be institutionalized like her mother. This meteor freak stuff with her is pretty lame.

 

[LostSon88]

Actually AL Gough just said at the Jules Verne Festival they are working on an 8th Season. I can't believe it to be honest. The show has overstayed it's welcome. Besides with some characters probably dying this Season and more leaving after Season 7...who the hell will be in S8? Other than Lois & Clark? And really...that show has been done already.

I agree I mean, i'm a pretty hardcore SV fan...been with the show since the very beginning...but even I think that its starting to stretch itself pretty thin.

Rosenbaum's done after next year and the way I see it, NO LUTHOR = NO POINT.

I mean can Smallville exist without Lex Luthor? I seriously doubt it.

As much as I love the show, i'm pretty much ready for it to end.

 

[AgentPat]

Actually AL Gough just said at the Jules Verne Festival they are working on an 8th Season. I can't believe it to be honest.

It's not the first time they've mentioned the potential for an eighth season. They must have something very specific planned, which intrigues me the more I hear about it.

The show has overstayed it's welcome.

Not for everybody. I still enjoy it as much as I did in the first season and then some.

Besides with some characters probably dying this Season and more leaving after Season 7...who the hell will be in S8?

Quite possibly the same cast. Depends on what they offer them. It's just another year, and producer's credits are hard to turn down.

Other than Lois & Clark? And really...that show has been done already.

They wouldn't go the route of Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher. L&C was romantic comedy. SV is more serious drama, and it'll always be called "Smallville." That said, there's been plenty of speculation of where the show could go post Clark's college years. The wild card is really Welling, not Rosenbaum or Kreuk. Because while the show *could* go forward w/o the latter, it can't go on w/o Tom's Clark.

Everything's been done already, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be done again,

Indeed. If they can get away with it in Superman films, they can certainly get away with it on TV.

 

[Serene]

I agree I mean, i'm a pretty hardcore SV fan...been with the show since the very beginning...but even I think that its starting to stretch itself pretty thin.

Rosenbaum's done after next year and the way I see it, NO LUTHOR = NO POINT.

I mean can Smallville exist without Lex Luthor? I seriously doubt it.

As much as I love the show, i'm pretty much ready for it to end.

*If* they go for an 8th season, and *if* they no longer have MR or KK, then I hope the show's focus becomes Clark traveling the world and being Supes in every way, except for the suit.

Occasional "guest" appearances by the former regulars (whoever's left ) would be great.

That's my preferred way of seeing a S8, but they just may go the Lois and Clark route though. I'll watch regardless of what they do.

Tom+phonebook = me.

 

[KalKai]

Indeed. If they can get away with it in Superman films, they can certainly get away with it on TV.

^ LOL, exactly. Besides, Clana has also been done already in that old Superboy show, and it's being done again in SV, for the past 6 years, and that's pretty much all you care about don't you Jana? Besides KK which is your main focus.

 

[MJZ]

I'd certainly want as many seasons as they can but I do agree on the "stretching itself thin" comment. The problem with this show is they can take one plot and stretch it out a whole season and still not progress the characters to where they should be. Not saying that's the case this year, it's going great, but I mean season 4 it was the stones, 5 it was Fine, this year it's Zoners and Ollie. Given Gough's comments about introducing more DC characters and what not it just feels too gimmicky sometimes.

As fun as the early episodes were this season I'm much preferring these last runs of shows because they're actually moving the characters forward.

 

[avidreader]

As fun as the early episodes were this season I'm much preferring these last runs of shows because they're actually moving the characters forward.

Agree. 100%.

 

[ariellem]

I was mostly disappointed by this episode. Not sure if it was the writing, acting, and/or editing, but the timing seemed off and the music didn't boost the scenes the way it often does.

Still no clue what Chloe's power is, right? <SIGH> And even though her mom told her to get out of town, she knows how much K can hurt Clark (or even kill him). I wouldn't think she'd have left him like that. Too mean.

Happy to see AO, even briefly.

Clark/Tom was over-emoting. Lots of expressions; didn't say much. Thought he should have been more in the action, less in the background of the ep.

Also, did AM have a cold? She looked a bit different early in the show, and not because she was wandering around in a daze in character.

Possible way out of the Lex-Chloe confrontation:
* Lex has his goons take Chloe hostage. While they have her, Clark & Lois publish the article she'd written on Lex. He plans to expose/kill her/put her into 33.1, but wants to use her as bait first. Since Lionel hasn't told him everything about Clark, Clark manages to get Chloe away from Lex, and then she and Lana play dead with Ollie's help.

* Lex is suspicious, since Helen disappeared too, but the scene is convincing enough that he throws a lavish, loving funeral for Lana, "the mother of his child," and for the "lost" baby - he doesn't know that Lana has told Clark or that the SV doc knows she wasn't pregnant. Doc attends the funeral. What he thinks of Lex vs. Lana could go either way, depending on how they play it...

* ep ends with Lionel reaming Lex a new one about his stupidity, short-sightedness, etc. If Lex is going to kill Lionel, he has nothing to lose at this point. Extra layer would be to have Martha nearby, as a hidden witness - she isn't going to pop out to say hi to Lex! Maybe the writers would be smart and give her a cell phone with a camera. She could get photos/video of Lex killing Lionel, and her future conundrum would be how to get this out without having to explain what she was doing there in the first place (angle could have been something compromising, or she could be in the mansion's loft or the secure room or a room with a video feed from the security camera in the room where the death happens - private room off of Lionel's office would be good).

* close with Lois congratulating Chloe over the phone - some specially encoded phone. Ollie eavesdrops, wanting to hear her voice, and eventually cuts in to say how much he misses her. Funny look on Lois' face. Says she misses him too. Pull back from Lois to see her a bit closer to Clark than usual - sitting on the sofa together to watch a game, sitting in the loft with her leaning on his shoulder, something like that.

 

[triplet]

Found an interesting thing about the writer of this episode (Genevieve Sparling) when I was working on my review, she was interviewed briefly for a segment on Gen Next by Judy Woodruff for the News Hour with Jim Lehrer.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/generat...ion-next/documentary/video1.html;prefchange=1

Her bit is right at the end and is only like three seconds long, so don't bother watching unless you find stories on overachieving (and underachieving) 20 somethings interesting...

Here's her two quotes, to save you the trouble:

GENEVIEVE SPARLING: You gotta love what you do and do what you love. And as soon as you don't anymore, find something else.

GENEVIEVE SPARLING: The people that I find to be my heroes are the people that are most influential in my life, are the people that I -- I see as people, I see how they treat other people, I see what they're like.

I like her, although that second quote doesn't make much sense. Too bad I didn't like her script more.

 

[Riva]

This was a fairly boring ep. Didn't really grab my interest throughout, though there were some good points. Like Lynda Carter, who was without a doubt, fantastic! And Lex being all bad-ass evil. Lex was just spot on threatening, and Michael Rosenbaum, along with Lynda Carter pretty much owned the ep. Oh, and how can I forget, Lana finally finding out the truth! Made the episode for me. Kristin Kreuk acted beautifully in that scene.

Lots of other stuff that I didn't really care for. I was happy that Clark was there for Chloe, but he was sidelined otherwise. Chloe's story just made no sense to me, and that's why the reunion with her mother fell flat. The plotline all in all was just a little too boring for me, but great acting jobs by everyone.

 

[triplet]

My review's up, and you can find it here:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/progenyreview.htm

or here:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/triplet.htm

 

[Riva]

Good review!

For the most part, Chloe-centric episodes haven't always been among my favorites. "Freak" probably being the best recent one before this. While this outing wasn't perfect, it was definitely better than "Tomb."

See, I think this one was alright, but I enjoyed 'Freak' a bit more. Neither are my favourites, but 'Freak' was a bit more enjoyable. 'Progeny' was a little slow and boring, mostly.

The biggest problem, writing wise, was that Moira's condition was so mysterious. Why did she go into a catatonic state? The flashback scene showed her voluntarily committing herself and she obviously wasn't catatonic then... Since the condition was apparently tied to her power, why did her power wait until later to "short circuit" her brain? Since he didn't explain that, I'm not sure what Lex said to her about it was logical. I know that making sense isn't always possible in a world where you have super-powered beings from other planets, but it's nice when they try harder. Otherwise it comes off contrived, which this did.

Definitely. No explanations provided. The events and causes behind Chloe and her mpm becoming meteor freaks are still so unclear.

The one thing I'm not sure I liked about this episode was the hint that maybe Clark and Lana will be back to the "Clana" see-saw. That romantic roller coaster had reached its height probably in season 3. Maybe it's hard to believe given how much I love this show, but that made me so frustrated with the show I'd almost stopped watching. I hope that Clark's continued pining over Lana doesn't devolve into yet more will-they/won't-they relationship angst.
The Smallville powers-that-be should resolve their relationship gracefully and not drag it on. They've "been there, done that" like four or five times before. As much of a sucker I am for romance, I really hope they don't go there again. They really need to move the couple past that and onto the friendship they have in the comics.

What I would really like to see is Clark and Lana having one completely no holds barred conversation, with everthing out in the open, and them being honest with each other. I would like that to lead to an honest to goodness, real, loyal friendship where I know Lana can prove to be a very good support system to Clark. The kind no-one else can maybe, right now. Realistically I think the time for romance has passed probably, but I guess if it's given one last go, then the ending should be handled with a lot of respect and dignity, for not only Clark and Lana's chatacters, but also keeping in mind Lois, who figures in the picture too, with her presence. I think it can be done, I'm not against it, but what would probably be for the best would be to keep the connection between the two, highlight it, a part of them always loving a part of the other, and really show them be there for each other now as friends and constants in each others lives that they can be, while in Smallville. It's very tricky, relationships, so it's best to tread really carefully and probably not involve Clark in any all out romantic commitment now, with any girl till the rest of the series. But if done well, who knows, I might just get on board too. I'm fine with aspects of both Clark/Lana and Clark/Lois, so long as they dont detract from the larger picture of what the series and characters are about. It's only really Clark/Chloe in a romantic sense that I could never really get behind.

The acting in the episode was, for the most part, strong. Tom Welling turned in another capable performance as Clark. His scene with Lana was touching and sweet, even despite the implications for the series as a whole. He portrayed his worry for her well-being and confusion over her decision to marry Lex very well. Later, when the mind-controlled Chloe was about to kill Lex, Clark saved him when he probably shouldn't have. The momentary hesitation that Tom portrayed before Clark pushed Lex away was terrific. The final scene with Chloe, where he promised a war was coming was terrific. He was angry and resolved and the promise that he would put Lex into his crosshairs was believable to me. Tom perfectly portrayed Clark's steely resolve.

Chloe was put through the ringer in this episode and Allison Mack did an outstanding job playing that range of emotions effectively. Her most effective scene was probably the one between Chloe and Lex at the Daily Planet. She was resolved in the face of Lex's threats, jail doesn't scare Chloe I guess, until he'd threatened her with something worse. What was the fate that Lex promised which would make prison seem like "a picnic?" Death? Imprisonment in a 33.1 facility? I'm not sure they made that clear, but Chloe was scared and Allison played it very well.

Michael Rosenbaum has really stepped it up in portraying the evil side of Lex. He plays him cool and smooth as silk. It's a pleasure to see Lex finally show his true colors and the matter-of-fact malice toward Chloe and her mother was chilling. That scene in the Planet was awesome. Michael played Lex with some humor as well as barely concealed malice. At the end, Lex casually threatened Chloe with something worse than prison as a almost humorous aside. I'm not sure anyone with less skill could portray that range of intent so well without going into over-the-top campiness.

I totally agree, especially about Michael. He really owned this ep, he was so good. Lex was just all out scareeee!

Guest star Lynda Carter didn't do as well as the regulars. Although she had her moments, her speeches to Chloe (both in the flashback and later in the 33.1 facility) were touching and effective, her performance for the most part was flat. I loved Wonder Woman when I was a kid, so I'm glad she was cast as Chloe's mom and that she has the potential to come back again, but her outing here could have been better.

I thought she was very good, but maybe I can see why some thought she was flat or not so good, because the character itself wasn't terribly well written. Maybe Lynda Carter had a tough time dealing with what exactly she was supposed to portray considering there was no proper backstory as such.

 

[avidreader]

The biggest problem, writing wise, was that Moira's condition was so mysterious. Why did she go into a catatonic state? The flashback scene showed her voluntarily committing herself and she obviously wasn't catatonic then... Since the condition was apparently tied to her power, why did her power wait until later to "short circuit" her brain? Since he didn't explain that, I'm not sure what Lex said to her about it was logical. I know that making sense isn't always possible in a world where you have super-powered beings from other planets, but it's nice when they try harder. Otherwise it comes off contrived, which this did.

Definitely. No explanations provided. The events and causes behind Chloe and her mpm becoming meteor freaks are still so unclear.

It was actually explained, in not too many words, that her condition was degenerative and that she slowly slipped into the catatonic state because the power was too powerful for her mind to handle.

The one thing I'm not sure I liked about this episode was the hint that maybe Clark and Lana will be back to the "Clana" see-saw. That romantic roller coaster had reached its height probably in season 3. Maybe it's hard to believe given how much I love this show, but that made me so frustrated with the show I'd almost stopped watching. I hope that Clark's continued pining over Lana doesn't devolve into yet more will-they/won't-they relationship angst.
The Smallville powers-that-be should resolve their relationship gracefully and not drag it on. They've "been there, done that" like four or five times before. As much of a sucker I am for romance, I really hope they don't go there again. They really need to move the couple past that and onto the friendship they have in the comics.

I was curious when I read this as to what it was about this particular scene that made you think that Clark and Lana were starting the romance merry-go-round again. I would have thought Promise was a more defining moment than this particular episode.

What I would really like to see is

Clark and Lana having one completely no holds barred conversation, with everthing out in the open, and them being honest with each other. I would like that to lead to an honest to goodness, real, loyal friendship where I know Lana can prove to be a very good support system to Clark. The kind no-one else can maybe, right now. Realistically I think the time for romance has passed probably, but I guess if it's given one last go, then the ending should be handled with a lot of respect and dignity, for not only Clark and Lana's chatacters, but also keeping in mind Lois, who figures in the picture too, with her presence. I think it can be done, I'm not against it, but what would probably be for the best would be to keep the connection between the two, highlight it, a part of them always loving a part of the other, and really show them be there for each other now as friends and constants in each others lives that they can be, while in Smallville. It's very tricky, relationships, so it's best to tread really carefully and probably not involve Clark in any all out romantic commitment now, with any girl till the rest of the series. But if done well, who knows, I might just get on board too. I'm fine with aspects of both Clark/Lana and Clark/Lois, so long as they dont detract from the larger picture of what the series and characters are about. It's only really Clark/Chloe in a romantic sense that I could never really get behind.

I think they could have one last go as a romantic couple, sans secret, if only to put some proper closure to it. Otherwise Clark will always be wondering. I think what they need to show is that Lana, and they have to be careful that they dont make her come off looking needy and selfish, realises that she needs a man in her life that can be fully committed to her and that someone like Clark isnt capable of fulfilling that role.

And they need to show Clark realising that he isnt able to provide Lana the kind of life that she wants and needs. Clark needs to want to be a hero that saves the world as his priority and that he wont be the kind of man that can offer a stable quiet and peaceful life to a woman.

This way we can have Clark and Lana, still loving each other, remaining friends, but both of them understand that having a life together cannot be possible because they both want and need different things.

 

[Pimpjuice16]

Everything's been done already, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be done again, and there's nothing confirmed about the deaths, it's pure speculation.

soo truue

 

[triplet]

It was actually explained, in not too many words, that her condition was degenerative and that she slowly slipped into the catatonic state because the power was too powerful for her mind to handle.

It seemed contrived to me, moreso than usual.

*shrug*

I was curious when I read this as to what it was about this particular scene that made you think that Clark and Lana were starting the romance merry-go-round again. I would have thought Promise was a more defining moment than this particular episode.

It's all piling up in my mind, but maybe with the new spoilers over on Sweet, K-site and TWoP maybe a return of Clana wasn't what they're setting up.

It seemed like a set up to me, and maybe it really is, just not for more Clana.

I think they could have one last go as a romantic couple, sans secret, if only to put some proper closure to it. Otherwise Clark will always be wondering. I think what they need to show is that Lana, and they have to be careful that they dont make her come off looking needy and selfish, realises that she needs a man in her life that can be fully committed to her and that someone like Clark isnt capable of fulfilling that role.

And they need to show Clark realising that he isnt able to provide Lana the kind of life that she wants and needs. Clark needs to want to be a hero that saves the world as his priority and that he wont be the kind of man that can offer a stable quiet and peaceful life to a woman.

This way we can have Clark and Lana, still loving each other, remaining friends, but both of them understand that having a life together cannot be possible because they both want and need different things.

As much as I've liked romantic, happy Clark and Lana together in the past I'm not sure I want that now.

It's too much after what they've been through. They've both hurt each other so much, for the right reasons maybe, but I can't see them setting up housekeeping now.

 

[Serene]

As much as I've liked romantic, happy Clark and Lana together in the past I'm not sure I want that now.

It's too much after what they've been through. They've both hurt each other so much, for the right reasons maybe, but I can't see them setting up housekeeping now.

Well, it looks like you might get your wish then.

I believe I need a big strong drink right now.

 

[triplet]

Well, it looks like you might get your wish then.

I believe I need a big strong drink right now.

*sigh*

I'm sorry and I don't wish Lana any ill will.

*hugs*

You know that's not what I meant.

*HUGS*

 

[Serene]

*sigh*

I'm sorry and I don't wish Lana any ill will.

*hugs*

You know that's not what I meant.

*HUGS*

No, I'm sorry. This is just all insult to injury with the week I'm having. Might be best for everyone to put me on ignore for the rest of the week. :/

 

[triplet]

No, I'm sorry. This is just all insult to injury with the week I'm having. Might be best for everyone to put me on ignore for the rest of the week. :/

*HUGS*

I would never put you on ignore....

 

[Serene]

I'm walking in Hulk's shoes again for a while.

My Progeny review: http://www.dc-kingdom.com/index.php?categoryid=42&p408_articleid=82

 

[avidreader]

I'm walking in Hulk's shoes again for a while.

My Progeny review: http://www.dc-kingdom.com/index.php?categoryid=42&p408_articleid=82

Good job, as usual.