7.07 - Wrath - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Eddie Brock]

Of course it was against the rules. In any position where you might give a student preferential treatment, you could be fired.

And yet Lana went for it anyway.

See, I'm just trying to tie in the fact that Lana's been with just as many guys as Lois. And I'm also trying to point out that the Lana/Jason relationship was much more inappropriate than any of Lois' relationships.

 

[Abaddon]

uggh, don't bring up that horrible season again.

 

[Eddie Brock]

uggh, don't bring up that horrible season again.

I try not to. But when it's to make a point, I feel I have to.

 

[Lemaris]

With the exception of Clark haven't Lana's boyfriends all turned out to be bad guys anyway.

 

[OobeDoobBenubi]

LANA LANG has been with:
1. Whitney
2. Jason Teague
3. The guy from Lost that slept with his step sister
4. Lex

Fixed

 

[Cmill216]

With the exception of Clark haven't Lana's boyfriends all turned out to be bad guys anyway.

Whitney wasn't a bad guy.

Fixed

She was never with Adam.

 

[OobeDoobBenubi]

Whitney wasn't a bad guy



She was never with Adam.

It sure seemed like they were more then just friends & your right about Whitney he was just overly jealous & he did set things right with Clark before he left Smallville

 

[Prison Mike]

she wasn't with Adam. I don't remember her kissing him anyway.

 

[Syncos]

And yet Lana went for it anyway.

See, I'm just trying to tie in the fact that Lana's been with just as many guys as Lois. And I'm also trying to point out that the Lana/Jason relationship was much more inappropriate than any of Lois' relationships.

Except for the fact that he -wasn't- working at the school when they started dating. In fact they were supposedly dating for months in Paris before she even returned to Smallville. He took the job at the school because he moved to Smallville to be with Lana.

 

[Prison Mike]

he should have taken a job at the Talon instead of the school.

 

[Syncos]

he should have taken a job at the Talon instead of the school.

Nobody ever said he was smart.

 

[TWistim]

Okay, back on topic. . .

This episode has caused the boards across the fandom to explode with interesting dialog. It raises important questions surrounding some very complex issues, such as, the motivations for taking revenge, the consequences of revenge, personal responsibility for one’s actions, the moral, amoral, or immoral nature of a person, etc. Here are some more of my thoughts on the subject:

What Lex did to Lana was horrendous. She was betrayed, used, manipulated and violated physically and emotionally. And no matter what mistakes one might think Lana has made (like getting involved with Lex and trusting him in the first place), she did not deserve what he did to her and it is not alright that it happened to her.

Clark also has been victimized by both Luthors. In “Memoria” Lionel set him up and forced him against his will to go through a procedure that invaded his private childhood memories. This procedure could have killed Clark. In “Hypnotic” Lex had him hypnotized and then set him (and Lana) up by having Lana witness him being seduced by Simone. There are also countless other times that Clark has been violated by those who would misuse his abilities and use him for personal gain. It’s one of the major reasons he doesn’t advertise who he really is!

But, and this is the important part, there is a major difference in the way that Clark and Lana respond to being victimized. Clark doesn’t feel the need to get revenge when he has been violated. It goes against his inner grain. He chooses instead not to give in to the hate that fuels revenge and destroys a person. Clark does not try to retaliate or act out of spite. Lana, from her actions so far this season, appears to be acting spitefully. It could even be argued that Lana was acting out of spite when she ran straight to Lex after Clark told her he didn’t love her anymore. This was certainly the way Clark saw it in “Crimson.” And after seeing this episode it does seem more likely than not that spite did play a part of her being with Lex. This causes her to not be seen as sympathetically as she would otherwise.

Another thing that has really been bothering me: In “Red” Clark said that he realized that a part of him really must feel the way he had been acting while on RedK. When Lana sneered at Clark and called him weak for staying on the farm with her, her true feelings were exposed and I was truly heartsick. This is not the way you talk to someone you love and respect. I think Lana was/is, in part, attracted to Lex because they share an obsessive quest for power because of what it can do for them. Twice now, once in “Spell” and again in “Wrath,” Lana has seemed intoxicated with power and has acted irresponsibly. Clark, on the other hand, is not obsessed with his power and recognizes that great power comes with great responsibility. He is careful with his power and uses it for the good of others. BIG difference! As a result, Clark is now seeing similarities between Lex and Lana that trouble him. He’s been overlooking it and denying it but in this episode he has had to deal with it.

My favorite scene of the episode is the last scene in the loft between Lana and Clark. The writing and the way the lines are delivered by both actors is excellent.
Clark says:
“I’m trying to find a part of you I recognize.”
“You sound like Lex.” (in response to Lana trying to justify her actions)
“I didn’t want to look below the surface.”
“It (honesty) has never been a part of our relationship.”

Lana says:
“We will find our way back from this.” (Clark replies, “Will we?”)
“Don’t do it.” (Clark asks, “Do what?”) Take all the blame so you don’t taint the image of me that you created.”
“I have to live with the decisions that I’ve made. I just need to know that you love me . . . no matter what?”

The scene ends as Clark sadly stares at Lana, hesitating to answer her question, and the music plays “your eyes tell me the truth . . .”

Such a poignant and telling scene. It is a pivotal moment in their relationship and signals the road ahead for them.

 

[rumpuso]

TWistim, your post is intelligent and accurate. Fantastic analysis of the difference between Clark and Lana.

 

[Whiteflag]

Okay, back on topic. . .

This episode has caused the boards across the fandom to explode with interesting dialog. It raises important questions surrounding some very complex issues, such as, the motivations for taking revenge, the consequences of revenge, personal responsibility for one’s actions, the moral, amoral, or immoral nature of a person, etc. Here are some more of my thoughts on the subject:

What Lex did to Lana was horrendous. She was betrayed, used, manipulated and violated physically and emotionally. And no matter what mistakes one might think Lana has made (like getting involved with Lex and trusting him in the first place), she did not deserve what he did to her and it is not alright that it happened to her.

Clark also has been victimized by both Luthors. In “Memoria” Lionel set him up and forced him against his will to go through a procedure that invaded his private childhood memories. This procedure could have killed Clark. In “Hypnotic” Lex had him hypnotized and then set him (and Lana) up by having Lana witness him being seduced by Simone. There are also countless other times that Clark has been violated by those who would misuse his abilities and use him for personal gain. It’s one of the major reasons he doesn’t advertise who he really is!

But, and this is the important part, there is a major difference in the way that Clark and Lana respond to being victimized. Clark doesn’t feel the need to get revenge when he has been violated. It goes against his inner grain. He chooses instead not to give in to the hate that fuels revenge and destroys a person. Clark does not try to retaliate or act out of spite. Lana, from her actions so far this season, appears to be acting spitefully. It could even be argued that Lana was acting out of spite when she ran straight to Lex after Clark told her he didn’t love her anymore. This was certainly the way Clark saw it in “Crimson.” And after seeing this episode it does seem more likely than not that spite did play a part of her being with Lex. This causes her to not be seen as sympathetically as she would otherwise.

Another thing that has really been bothering me: In “Red” Clark said that he realized that a part of him really must feel the way he had been acting while on RedK. When Lana sneered at Clark and called him weak for staying on the farm with her, her true feelings were exposed and I was truly heartsick. This is not the way you talk to someone you love and respect. I think Lana was/is, in part, attracted to Lex because they share an obsessive quest for power because of what it can do for them. Twice now, once in “Spell” and again in “Wrath,” Lana has seemed intoxicated with power and has acted irresponsibly. Clark, on the other hand, is not obsessed with his power and recognizes that great power comes with great responsibility. He is careful with his power and uses it for the good of others. BIG difference! As a result, Clark is now seeing similarities between Lex and Lana that trouble him. He’s been overlooking it and denying it but in this episode he has had to deal with it.

My favorite scene of the episode is the last scene in the loft between Lana and Clark. The writing and the way the lines are delivered by both actors is excellent.
Clark says:
“I’m trying to find a part of you I recognize.”
“You sound like Lex.” (in response to Lana trying to justify her actions)
“I didn’t want to look below the surface.”
“It (honesty) has never been a part of our relationship.”

Lana says:
“We will find our way back from this.” (Clark replies, “Will we?”)
“Don’t do it.” (Clark asks, “Do what?”) Take all the blame so you don’t taint the image of me that you created.”
“I have to live with the decisions that I’ve made. I just need to know that you love me . . . no matter what?”

The scene ends as Clark sadly stares at Lana, hesitating to answer her question, and the music plays “your eyes tell me the truth . . .”

Such a poignant and telling scene. It is a pivotal moment in their relationship and signals the road ahead for them.

Very well said!!!

 

[blksuperman2]

TWistim, your post is intelligent and accurate. Fantastic analysis of the difference between Clark and Lana.

Indeed. And this is why you must be banned. Your post might provoke everyone into responding intelligently. We can't have that. We here like to complain about trivial matters such as Clark not flying, Lana not dying, Bruce Wayne not showing up, and Kryptonite not being the right color. These are the things that matter most.

I commend your efforts but .................... alas...............

 

[TWistim]

Indeed. And this is why you must be banned. Your post might provoke everyone into responding intelligently. We can't have that. We here like to complain about trivial matters such as Clark not flying, Lana not dying, Bruce Wayne not showing up, and Kryptonite not being the right color. These are the things that matter most.

I commend your efforts but .................... alas...............

That is too funny! t:

Originally Posted b rumpuso
TWistim, your post is intelligent and accurate. Fantastic analysis of the difference between Clark and Lana.

Originally Posted by Whiteflag
Very well said!!!

Thanks!

 

[Prison Mike]

I like how they didn't have Clark answer Lana's question at the end about still loving her. It gives a sense that this relationship is not going to last.

 

[COMPO]

i liked the scene between Lex and Clark in the Kent Home especially when Lex says, "stings doesn't it."

 

[Migu-EL]

Indeed. And this is why you must be banned. Your post might provoke everyone into responding intelligently. We can't have that. We here like to complain about trivial matters such as Clark not flying, Lana not dying, Bruce Wayne not showing up, and Kryptonite not being the right color. These are the things that matter most.

I commend your efforts but .................... alas...............

Lmaot:

 

[Captivated]

It really bothers me the way some are trying to frame Lana's actions... Some people (on the show and in the forums) just don't get the gravity of what the Luthors did to her, AND what she (and possibly Lionel) uniquely KNOWS Lex has done to others.

Lana historically HAS wanted to help others. That is in her character. I don't think she has radically changed when it comes to motivation.

Since Lana knows what Lex did to her, has done to others, and what he is capable of... not to mention his obsession with aliens (i.e. Clark and Kara), I think her MAIN motivation is PROTECTING Clark, EXPOSING Lex, and seeing JUSTICE done for his victims... which would include herself.

Since when is a VICTIM'S desire to prevent others from being hurt, and see a criminal brought to JUSTICE dismissed as deviant... or "just out for revenge"!?

There is a fine line between revenge and justice... two sides of the same sword, both of which can draw blood. Revenge implies something impulsive, done by the wronged individual... justice implies thoughtfulness, laws and a system that society has established to deal with criminals.

Lana had enough experience with Lex and was obviously AFRAID enough of him not to trust conventional avenues. That is why she tried to frame him and faked her own death to escape him AND get him off the streets (so to speak.)

When that didn't work, she tried to take care of him personally... She had the PERFECT chance for REVENGE, but couldn't do it. SHE COULDN'T KILL LEX when she had the chance to do so and NO ONE would have convicted her. She also couldn't KILL Lionel either, but cooked up an ill conceived plan to eliminate the threat that she thought he posed.

Her surveillance of Lex is more of an indication that she RIGHTLY does not trust him, wants to PROTECT herself and those she loves, and she is looking for HARD EVIDENCE to EXPOSE him and bring him to JUSTICE.

But, with Clark's powers Lana had a sense of being invulnerable... Like she told Chloe, she wanted to use the advantage to "tell the world" about Lex. When taking evidence to the press didn't work... and she realized that he was still obsessed with ALIENS (i.e.. dangerous to Clark and Kara and others), it was only THEN that her frustration and aggression drove her to try to "take care of" (kill) Lex herself. Would she have gone through with it this time? May-be... may-be not...

EVEN SO, I still wouldn't say that her ONLY motivation was revenge. Revenge would have been putting a bullet in Lex the first chance she got.

As for the difference between Clark and Lana and the way she handled his powers... Clark grew up with great power... he was raised with it and the confidence it gave him. He has power and a sense of control MOST of the time. Lana on the other hand is well acquainted with what it is like to be POWERLESS and completely at the mercy of those who have the capacity to destroy your whole world. Clark also doesn't know about all Lex has done... Their perspectives are very different. He doesn't come close to having the same sense of being a victim that Lana has.

Even Oliver accused Clark of not doing all he could to bring justice to the world. Clark does tend to be reactive and not proactive. One could ask, if he knows what Lex did to Lana and the 33.1 victims, why isn't HE using his powers to bring him to justice?

That goes for Chloe too. Quite frankly, her calling Lana DEVIANT for spying on Lex HAD to be one of the most hypocritical things I've ever heard! And even after they discovered that Lex was trying to track Kryptonians, Chloe cut off her surveillance?! What the hell?!

Chloe was awfully sanctimonious in this episode, given her own actions, and willingness to cross lines to basically do the same thing Lana was trying to do.

And Lionel, just last episode, KILLED for Clark and we all sighed with relief... But when Lana told Chloe that she would do anything for Clark, Chloe said "Even kill... lucky guy." Of course it was dripping with pious sarcasm. That was the first time I think I wanted to slap Chloe.

I think Clark's trouble expression in the barn was not just because he realized that Lana had been hiding things from him... Even though Lana IS responsible for her own decisions, Clark KNOWS what Lex said is true... being with Lex DAMAGED her... and she would not have been with Lex if he had been honest with her and not pushed her away.

I can see the writers exploring the repercussions of Lana's TRAUMATIC experience. Not surprising that what she went through made her "darker," but I'm NOT liking the lack of explanation and the confusing, hypocritical reactions of the other characters.

 

[Prison Mike]

As much as I liked the Chloe/Lana confrontation, I agree that Chloe was a bit too preachy. I would like her more if they toned her down a bit.

 

[spark627]

Does anyone have any caps from this ep?

 

[Eddie Brock]

Captivated, all I have to say to you is this:

"Justice is about harmony. Revenge is about you making yourself feel better."
- Batman Begins​

The ends don't justify the means. I don't care what Lex did, you don't go all psycho and invade someone's entire life like that. This is why she and Clark can't be together...this is why Clark and Oliver bumped heads...the ends do not justify the means.

Clark understands that...Lana doesn't.

 

[Captivated]

But, and this is the important part, there is a major difference in the way that Clark and Lana respond to being victimized. Clark doesn’t feel the need to get revenge when he has been violated. It goes against his inner grain. He chooses instead not to give in to the hate that fuels revenge and destroys a person. Clark does not try to retaliate or act out of spite.

Most of Clark's threats were eliminated in some way or another... and with Lex, one could argue that if Clark had bothered to expose Lex himself, a lot of people would have been spared a lot of suffering...

Lana, from her actions so far this season, appears to be acting spitefully. It could even be argued that Lana was acting out of spite when she ran straight to Lex after Clark told her he didn’t love her anymore. This was certainly the way Clark saw it in “Crimson.” And after seeing this episode it does seem more likely than not that spite did play a part of her being with Lex. This causes her to not be seen as sympathetically as she would otherwise.

Spite?! I don't see it. She had a long term friendship with Lex, and he did know how to play her... so even though it was nauseating, it was not that surprising that she hooked up with Lex.

But NOW, she KNOWS what Lex gets AWAY with... what he did to her, to others, the threat he poses, but to say she is just being spiteful TRIVIALIZES what he did and her RIGHT to seek justice.

I think Lana was/is, in part, attracted to Lex because they share an obsessive quest for power because of what it can do for them. Twice now, once in “Spell” and again in “Wrath,” Lana has seemed intoxicated with power and has acted irresponsibly.

Clark and Lex BOTH are powerful... and that can be attractive. So what does that prove?

In "Spell" it was NOT Lana that was obsessed with power. In "Wrath" it was more about righteous indignation combined with the power to DO something about it, than the kind of obsession with power that Lex has. Big difference.

 

[Prison Mike]

Captivated, all I have to say to you is this:

"Justice is about harmony. Revenge is about you making yourself feel better."

- Batman Begins​

The ends don't justify the means. I don't care what Lex did, you don't go all psycho and invade someone's entire life like that. This is why she and Clark can't be together...this is why Clark and Oliver bumped heads...the ends do not justify the means.

Clark understands that...Lana doesn't.

that was a great scene from BB.