Aerial Fight Sequence vs. Train Sequence

[Visionary]

no. there's a picture of sandman holding spider-man, and his wife and child in the background.

there isn't a picture of sandman walking away from spider-man. how anti-climatic would that be.

He isn't just going stand there, of course he's going to walk away, he's not going to continue to bash Spidey's brains in front of his kid. This almost the end of the film, if Sandman lives, he has to walk away, there's nothing anyone can do to stop him. It's basic common-sense. Unless Venom or Harry attacks him during this scene, then things could change.

 

[Naite22]

After Peter has fought Harry and Sandman, Sandman goes away for a long period of the film and doesn't return until the battle royale... The time in between (leading up to the final blow-out) will focus on Peter's dark side and the problems that it carries (making it damn clear that ones this alien-symbiote lands on Brock, we KNOW that it means major trouble!)...

Just a wild guess.

 

[Visionary]

Yeah, but who lives and who dies out of Brock/Venom and Sandman?

 

[November Rain]

Harry looks like an SsX-Rider from the video-game!... But he's waaay cooler looking then Green Goblin EVER was!!!

I would actually still say that norman's glider is superior in looks.

but i guess they needed a snow board type design for a narrow alley scene...

 

[I_Hate_U_All]

sky surfer's the style they were going for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aouDkqgGlGo

Reminds me of one of those hoverboard guys in back to the future. HEY SPIDEY YOU BOZO! THOSE WEBS DON'T THWIP ON WATER!

sorry, not so clever tonight.

 

[Dragon]

We can't use comic book logic to describe aspects that occur on the film, they are both different characters with different points etc

Why would you say that? Everything in the films has their basis in the comics. They've taken leaps, but not that big.

comics can only be used as a reference and we know that in the films, his spider sense acts less frequently than in the comics, without the noise it could be anyone one of his other senses.

just like in the cartoons, you can't say it's going off all the time unless peter acknologes it in thought or if that sound and colour changes happen, you can only go by what you see.

The Spidey sense works the same way in the comics. We know that Peter's spider sense is constantly firing, in for example a fight with multiple armed assailants. But the artists don't constantly show the spider sense graphic eminating from Spidey's head. The Spider sense in both the movies and comics are alerting him to dangers he can't see- i.e. attacks from behind, or attacks his enemies have yet to launch. But again, his mind set, how distracted he may be, effect his reaction. Granted, in both the movies and comics, there are just points at which the creative folks screw-up. For every failure to launch you can point to in the film, I can point to 10 in the comics.

but there are two instances when pete is on a bike and either nearly gets hit by a car or gets kidnapped by peter and neither time does his reflex kick in.

my only rationalisation is that it goes off if someone or himself is in mortal danger

I think in both cases of the bike scenes it was more about story telling issues than anything else.

In Spidey 2, they were going for a rapid succession of shots to keep the pacing exciting. When the car comes up behind Peter the Spidey sense effect would've been redundant and only slow the pace of the scene. WE KNOW Peter is in danger due to the shot of the car speeding up behind Pete. For them to insert the SS FX and for it to have time to register, would've meant slowing the scene down, rather than merely having Peter react as the car hits his bike. But we can safely assume that Peter was reacting based on his Spidey sense due to the fact that he can't see the car coming up behind him. Even hearing it wouldn't have helped him.

punch to the back of the head (could have killed him, it did dent the locker)
world fair (people did die)
Goblin glider (he was about to be killed)
MJ Cafe car (they would have been killed)
train crash (people would have died)

maybe, both the car/moped/scooter scenes, and fire goblin scenes simply weren't iminent enough danger scenes for it to be acknowledged

The fight with Harry is a bit more problematic, but I think the same principle. I think Sam just felt that the attack would've been more effecting to the audience if we weren't alerted (along with Peter). So no need to use the Spidey sense.

But, to give an explanation in terms of his Spidey sense's functioning, perhaps the buzz he received wasn't that heavy since Harry's initial attack wasn't a lethal one, but merely to grab him along the lines of what you mentioned above. Add to that Peter's euphoria of thinking of proposing to MJ...

 

[FatA$$]

well since harry isnt the main villain it doesnt really add up since ock was the main villian in 2.

 

[November Rain]

Why would you say that? Everything in the films has their basis in the comics. They've taken leaps, but not that big.

having a less sensitive spider-sense is not that big a leap to take

The Spidey sense works the same way in the comics. We know that Peter's spider sense is constantly firing, in for example a fight with multiple armed assailants. But the artists don't constantly show the spider sense graphic eminating from Spidey's head. The Spider sense in both the movies and comics are alerting him to dangers he can't see- i.e. attacks from behind, or attacks his enemies have yet to launch. But again, his mind set, how distracted he may be, effect his reaction. Granted, in both the movies and comics, there are just points at which the creative folks screw-up. For every failure to launch you can point to in the film, I can point to 10 in the comics.

works the same way yes, but can you truelly verify that it is just as sensitive?

that's why i say we have to treat the pieces of medium separately and only use intra-medium examples to help explain problems within. referring back to the comics isn't going to help because there is a relative difference between the two characters even (initially) down to how they got their powers and how they worked (organics??).

as far as we know from what we see in the films, it doesn't or hasn't constantly gone off about any instance so far.

I think in both cases of the bike scenes it was more about story telling issues than anything else.

In Spidey 2, they were going for a rapid succession of shots to keep the pacing exciting. When the car comes up behind Peter the Spidey sense effect would've been redundant and only slow the pace of the scene. WE KNOW Peter is in danger due to the shot of the car speeding up behind Pete. For them to insert the SS FX and for it to have time to register, would've meant slowing the scene down, rather than merely having Peter react as the car hits his bike. But we can safely assume that Peter was reacting based on his Spidey sense due to the fact that he can't see the car coming up behind him. Even hearing it wouldn't have helped him.

there is nothing to say that they can't edit the spidey sense to make it seem different. A faster paced cut scene to go better with the scene, these are talented directors, one's which decided how the sense was going to be showcased in the first place, i'm sure they could re-edit.

in teh second film, if parker hadn't turned round, potentially he would have gotten run over but it was the noise that got his attention and not his spidey sense

The fight with Harry is a bit more problematic, but I think the same principle. I think Sam just felt that the attack would've been more effecting to the audience if we weren't alerted (along with Peter). So no need to use the Spidey sense.

But, to give an explanation in terms of his Spidey sense's functioning, perhaps the buzz he received wasn't that heavy since Harry's initial attack wasn't a lethal one, but merely to grab him along the lines of what you mentioned above. Add to that Peter's euphoria of thinking of proposing to MJ...

shock factor was pretty much it but harry definitely got the jump on peter because his sense didn't work

i'm not completely sure if absent mindedness is enough because i'm pretty sure when it first went off, spidey was too busy worrying about his webbing on the tray to notice flash's fist.


I'm a firm believer in taking what you get as evidence and not filling in the gaps with ideas. I feel you may be trying to extrapolate to much.

 

[shigsy2003]

Yeah, but who lives and who dies out of Brock/Venom and Sandman?

Sandman won't die as he has a sick daughter. Unless we are introduced to other members of the Marko family then it is an extremely safe bet that he will live. Also he isn't really going to be portrayed as evil, he just needs money for his sick daughter.

Venom/Brock....your guess is as good as mine. Let's just hope that if they/he/it dies then it isn't a suicide ala 1 and 2. Although to be fair Norman didn't mean to kill himself it just turned out that way.

 

[Dragon]

having a less sensitive spider-sense is not that big a leap to take

But it isn't less sensitive. In the comics there a numerous instances where the spider sense doesn't go off. Or fails for some inexplicable reason. Gerry Conway even tried to explain that it didn't work if a FRIEND was attacking him

works the same way yes, but can you truelly verify that it is just as sensitive?

That's just not possible since we've rarely seen Movie-Spidey in the same situations as Comic-Spidey with the exception of the Glider attack in Spidey 1.

that's why i say we have to treat the pieces of medium separately and only use intra-medium examples to help explain problems within. referring back to the comics isn't going to help because there is a relative difference between the two characters even (initially) down to how they got their powers and how they worked (organics??).

The differences are minimal at best. He has the same powers, gained by the same basic origin concept. Even the organics still work the same way as the mechs. And yes, I still wish Sam had went with the mechs, but they've become a very minor sticking point.

as far as we know from what we see in the films, it doesn't or hasn't constantly gone off about any instance so far.

Just because there's been no exposition about it? Sam probably doesn't have it explained just because the explanation is pretty obvious, or the source material is available for anyone to research.

there is nothing to say that they can't edit the spidey sense to make it seem different. A faster paced cut scene to go better with the scene, these are talented directors, one's which decided how the sense was going to be showcased in the first place, i'm sure they could re-edit.

There's a clear reason for the edit presented. Again, in the shot, WE SEE the car barrelling toward Peter. WE KNOW he's in danger. The spider sense effect would be sledge hammering the point. There are times in film when conveying the "reality" is unnecessary. such as hearing footsteps or breathing sounds when you want to focus on a single sound that takes precedence.

in teh second film, if parker hadn't turned round, potentially he would have gotten run over but it was the noise that got his attention and not his spidey sense

Not really. Looking at the scene again, you can barely hear the car accelerating until it's almost on top of Peter. And when he turns, he doesn't really look behind him. He doesn't have time for more than a peripheral glance. That's why the Spider sense effect wouldn't have helped. Taking the second to run the sound effect would've taken too long.

shock factor was pretty much it but harry definitely got the jump on peter because his sense didn't work

i'm not completely sure if absent mindedness is enough because i'm pretty sure when it first went off, spidey was too busy worrying about his webbing on the tray to notice flash's fist.

But we know that just as they fail in the movies at times, so too do they fail in the comics. E.G. in ASM #122, when while pounding on the Goblin, he doesn't see a cable on the bridge and crashes into it.

To Quote Spidey:

"Didn't see that cable.. Till it was too late! Spider senses.. All knocked out by my anger!"

Raimi isn't pulling these things out of nowhere, due to a lack of knowledge. He's drawing this stuff from the source material. He doesn't have time or caption boxes to explain why Spidey's senses fail him.

As for the scene with Flash, he'd had sufficient time to disconnect himself from the web incident. And honestly, Flash's punch wasn't much of a danger anyway. With his strength, even if Flash had landed that punch it wouldn't have hurt Peter. But it was a first opportunity to display the spider sense.

I'm a firm believer in taking what you get as evidence and not filling in the gaps with ideas. I feel you may be trying to extrapolate to much.

I agree with you totally there. But in this case, we do have evidence. It's in the comics and not on the screen.

 

[HCpride]

I don't understand that statement. It's been three years, you've probably seen that scene now a dozen times, saw it on the big screen, and saw it within the context of the movie. Of course it's more 'memorable' at this point.

i still think the train scene will be more memorable too
that was just a bad ass fight
both seemed to be equals,and the way they did it, fighting on, in, and on the side of the train, brilliant
what did the GG2 fight have, harry chasing peter
theres no way that will ever, EVER, meet up with the train scene

 

[Mr Jide]

This is how I feel. Harry vs Pete beats the theatrical train sequence. However, the train sequence from sm 2.1 looks as though it'll be superior to the H vs P fight. The extended clips look too good to be true.

 

[Spiderine]

I am actually going to go with the train sequence here. However the aerial battle is qiute entertaining.

 

[Drago]

Yep- train sequence.

 

[TheVileOne]

I dunno, kind of a toss-up.

What I really love about the aerial sequence is that they gave Harry's glider a little character and dimension to it that Norman's glider did not quite have in the first movie. Spielberg-esque almost.

 

[TNC9852002]

Hmmm..I think I know what you mean, Vile...It's kinda hard to compare the two right now, IMO.

It's actually been a while since I've taken a look at that aerial fight. I guess I'm trying to avoid it so that it'll be a little fresh by May..

-tNC

 

[TheVileOne]

Well I mean, we actually kind of see how it works. It returns to the pilot if falls off of it, I thought that was cool. I mean in the first movie you never actually see where Norman got the weapons from the glider or where he pulls them out of. In this sequence you do. Little details like that.

But you know after seeing scenes like this I hope we still don't get people complaining "WHERE DID THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS GO?!! THIS DIDN'T LOOK LIKE A BIG BUDGET MOVIE! WAH!"

 

[Visionary]

Just give them time...they'll get around to it.