Did Spidey Let ock beat him in the train fight?

[November Rain]

Actually Ock, when i started this thread, I did kinda mean from the outset of the fight, as in spidey was going to lose it all along even before it began.

but i feel by the end of it at the train, he didn't put up any fight and that was most likely to save the people on the train from any more damage.

I mean

he'd already saved two being thrown out, a few hundred from crashing, he was in no shape to fight on and save the rest, so he just stood there and let ock pound him.

in that small context, i think spidey did let ock beat him, but it was no means any thing more than a means of causing less grief to the passengers, it wouldn't have been a outlying plan (like i suggested earlier) that would have allowed him to infiltrate his secret base.



oh and while we are here, i can't be bothered opening a second thread where i know i will drag you into another ock debate so here goes: Why don't you think Ock never went back to his home?

I don't get whether he lives in new york or not (because they say he's in town, which gives the impression he's not based in new york), or he was staying IN the lab or underneath it or what not.

any ideas? because right after an accident like that, i would be making my way home pronto to at least get some things.

plus he would have needed some notes in order to put the whole thing together, no man no matter how smart he is could perform such a task. UNLESS the tentacles enhanced his intellect, but again we aren't shown anything of this nature during the film....

 

[The Joker]

Actually Ock, when i started this thread, I did kinda mean from the outset of the fight, as in spidey was going to lose it all along even before it began.

Yes, I know what you meant. And I still disagree with it for my reasons previously stated.

Regarding his home, his home was above his lab, according to the 'Caught in the web' book I got, which is all about the making of the movie. His apartment where he and his wife lived is just above his lab.

I don't see why Ock would go back to his home, since that's the first place the authorities would look for him. Also, it looked like the building was burned out after the demonstration went haywire, with all the smoke pouring out of it and the fire brigade there etc.

 

[November Rain]

If he lived about the lab then fair enough, although why someone would live above such a dangerous experiement is beyond me, i won't even go into the safety issue addressed in that film concerning an experiment of that natue, i mean even the cartoons showed some level of safety that was operating with ock's work although the radiation aspect of ock's work wasn't addressed in the film.

Well here's a few things. Ock was out before the end of the experiment so he wouldn't know how it all ended, I'm surprised he actually knew of the condition of his wife. to the full extent, she must have been fairly badly injured but in a film that is mainly produced for the young, i can't see this detail being shown.

As for ock's need to go home, for vital things like clothes and work equipment and generally getting his head together over what happened.

Considering he killed everyone in that hospital (or at least operating theatre), there would be no one to call for emergency help and the car he flipped straight afterwards was in too close a proximity to ock for that police car he heard near by being specifically coming for him.


I somehow wish his wife hadn't died and Spidey/Peter had used the knowledge of her being alive to turn ock since his turn to darkness was triggered by him believing his wife should was gone (as if she was his last anchor to light). The problem with this is that it is very similar to mr freeze's story in many other batman formats.

So to get around this, i would have had spidey 'say' she was alive to get him to help them, not have ock die and when he gets taken in by the police he realises that spidey had used his cunning to lie to him about his wife, starting the personal hatred Ock would have for spidey (that could be used in later apperances).

what say you?

 

[OctoHaz]

Well here's a few things. Ock was out before the end of the experiment so he wouldn't know how it all ended, I'm surprised he actually knew of the condition of his wife. to the full extent, she must have been fairly badly injured but in a film that is mainly produced for the young, i can't see this detail being shown.

He saw her get caught in the rain-of-glass, saw her collapse bonelessly to the floor... I think assuming she'd gotten killed was a safe enough assumption on his part. Also, once he'd escaped the hospital, it wouldn't have been difficult to scrounge up a newspaper which surely would have mentioned the death.

As for ock's need to go home, for vital things like clothes and work equipment and generally getting his head together over what happened.

Yeah, but as Doc pointed out, police were probably still all over the place. And even if Otto thought he wouldn't be arrested for the experiment going kaboom, he almost certainly suspected he would be blamed for what his tentacles did to the hospital staff.

 

[The Joker]

If he lived about the lab then fair enough, although why someone would live above such a dangerous experiement is beyond me, i won't even go into the safety issue addressed in that film concerning an experiment of that natue, i mean even the cartoons showed some level of safety that was operating with ock's work although the radiation aspect of ock's work wasn't addressed in the film.

Ah, but that's just it. He didn't believe it was dangerous. He thought he had it all worked out. That it would work. "This is my life's work. I certainly know the consequences of the slightest miscalculation".
Even when the reactor went haywire at the demonstration, he was still confident it was just a minor malfunction he could get under control.

Like Osborn testing the performance enhancers on himself, he was swept up in the determination to succeed despite the signs of danger.

Well here's a few things. Ock was out before the end of the experiment so he wouldn't know how it all ended, I'm surprised he actually knew of the condition of his wife. to the full extent, she must have been fairly badly injured but in a film that is mainly produced for the young, i can't see this detail being shown.

Well, if you want to split hairs, there's nothing to say that he didn't stop by his place, see it was a burned out shell under Police surveillance, and just take off towards the pier.

As for his wife, a shower of shards of glass sprayed across the room. Nearly got him too if he hadn't shielded himself with his tentacles. I'm sure he knew his wife had been killed by it.

You forget that when he is in the warehouse mourning over the ruination of his life, he mentioned his wife was dead: "My Rosie's dead. My dream is dead"

As for ock's need to go home, for vital things like clothes and work equipment and generally getting his head together over what happened.

Clothes I would think were the last thing on his mind. Work equipment.....what work equipment?? His lab was destroyed.

Considering he killed everyone in that hospital (or at least operating theatre), there would be no one to call for emergency help and the car he flipped straight afterwards was in too close a proximity to ock for that police car he heard near by being specifically coming for him.

Again, if you really want to split hairs here [and you are ], there is nothing to suggest he didn't go home first. Personally, I don't think he did, but I cannot definitively say he didn't because there's nothing to go against that theorey in the movie.

So to get around this, i would have had spidey 'say' she was alive to get him to help them, not have ock die and when he gets taken in by the police he realises that spidey had used his cunning to lie to him about his wife, starting the personal hatred Ock would have for spidey (that could be used in later apperances).

what say you?

That's a wonderful idea. I really like it.

 

[November Rain]

Alright, he didn't believe his work was dangerous, I can suspend belief for that.

As for stopping by at his house, there's nothing to suggest he did or he didn't so one can happily assume both

When i mentioned work equipment, I meant general papers concerning the general running and construction of his experiment. As an engineering student, i know how vitals one's notes are when reconstructing an experiment precisely, even more so when one wants to relatively scale up hte procedure, so those were the kinda things i was really referring to, but this can be covered with the exact details perhaps being unlocked via the tentacle uplink, an easy no-prize assumption.

I'm glad you liked the idea, i thought you would, shame it wasn't used, could have added a lot of potential depths in follow ups, it would also actually give a villain a sufficient genuine motive which i feel is lacked in films of this genre. a shame it was never brought up (or maybe it was and people thought it was too close to what occurred with Mr Freeze, it certainly ran through my eyes when i first was thinking about it.). It would have also linked to that legendary Jail scene showed at the end of 'Armed and Dangerous' which is genius.