Agent Carter Agent Carter General Discussion Thread - Part 1

I'm afraid they don't have that many HYDRA operatives to choose from. Aside from Zola, they have maybe two or three dozen soldiers and officers from Reinhardt's group and no one else.

As for the Nuremberg Trials, it seems they might end a bit earlier than in our history. In The Blitzkrieg Button Roger Dooley mentions to Ernst Mueller that Wilhelm Keitel was hanged a day earlier. We know the episode is set during, or slightly before May 1946, but in our history, Keitel was hanged in October 1946.

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Wilhelm_Keitel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Keitel
 
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I'm afraid they don't have that many HYDRA operatives to choose from. Aside from Zola, they have maybe two or three dozen soldiers and officers from Reinhardt's group and no one else.
They might have been able to also take some HYDRA prisoners from the main HYDRA facility at the end of The First Avenger (it's possible not everyone was killed in that final assault)
 
They made Thompson a lot more interesting in the last 3 eps of the season, I'd like to see where they go with him in a second season with him now in the bosses chair.

I like the dynamic between Peggy and Sousa and I am glad they slow burned things, it gave Peggy some closure on Cap and allowed viewers to gain interest in the potential of them having a closer relationship.



This development makes me hope that Attwell's idea of having a couple of seasons in each decade (40's, 50's, 60's) comes to fruition. They can really add some great back story to Hydra's infiltration of SHIELD and the Winter Soldier program.
seems to me that he'd still be looking to Peggy for help tho.
I agree with some of the fans that Sousa could be Peg's hubby.
 
I think that, like LMDs, that it's one of those elements from the comics that just doesn't translate well to the MCU. Not that it isn't already a cop-out in the comics, but introducing it into the MCU is just going too far. If they want to make small hints toward an Infinity formula, just as the Koenig brothers are subtle hints toward LMDs, then sure. But as a plot device, it cheapens things so severely.

I get the desire to make Black Widow older, especially considering the comic character's Cold War roots. But that is some seriously thin ice to tread on if they went that route. Not worth it, IMO.

see i don't see it as that big of a cop-out. especially when we have suspended animation and "using body parts of others to stop you from aging". I would just make it have a cap limit.. as in... it only lasts so long, or you still age, just at a much slower rate
 
Regarding BW, I'd still have her with the infinity formula and slowed aging and peak physical condition as a result of it but I'd have her born in the late 1950's or early 1960's which would mean that Zola's info in TWS is inaccurate. Because if his info IS accurate then that would mean the USSR desolved when she was 6 or 7 years old so her talking about the KGB doesn't fit so well. But if she's 20-30 years older than she looks then it works fine as well as not over populating the MCU with ageless WWII types as that can look kind of gimmicky. It would basically mean Natasha is the same age more or less as SLJ's Nick Fury.
 
I think if Natasha was a 7 year old child around the end of WWII it'd still make sense and not make her feel like a WWII grouped character.. considering her adult hood would be during the red scare and fallout of the cold war. when she'd potentially take such a formula
 
Now that the series has concluded, I`m going to weight in. I have mixed feelings towards this eight-part mini-series: I really like most of the ideas, but the execution could definitely be improved upon.

Firstly, what I did enjoy (and there was a lot):

James D`Arcy as Edwin Jarvis: This is probably my favorite part of the series. It`s a well rounded character with virtues, flaws, both strong and vulnerable moments and great interaction with the rest of the cast. He grew over the course of the 8 episodes while also remaining true to his original persona, and James D`Arcy very fun performance also provided the perfect comic relief for a series like this.

Chad Michael Murray as Jack Thompson: Thompson is a great idea of a complex character. He`s a very competent SSR officer whose past is a fraud, and thus he feels the need to be recognized for any good work he does now. And he`s very well constructed as well: just like Jarvis, he had virtues, flaws, both strong and vulnerable moments, and a very definite personality. Murray fits wonderfully in the 40s time-piece, and it`s a credit to his charm that he still comes across as a likable character, even though he starts out as a *****e.

Shea Whigham as Roger Dooley: Dooley is the flip-side to Thompson. While both were introduced as mere *****es and later revealed to have some nobility in them, Dooley is quite simplistic when compared to Thompson. At the end of the day, he is just the 40s version of the everyman/familyman. His final moments managed to be quite emotional, with his coming-home tragic illusion giving us one last insight into the character. Whigham, like Murray, also fits very well with the 40s setting.

Howard Stark: It was great to see him again, and in such a prominent role. The last moments of the series being dedicated to his and Peggy`s feelings for Cap, illusion included, was a stroke of genius by the showrunners. If the series does continue, I would like to see his transition from the playboy we see here to the settled-down Walt Disney-like persona we see in IM2 (that`s the Howard Stark I prefer).

The return of the Howling commandos was also a great treat (especially Neal McDonough and Leonard Roberts), as was seeing Arnim Zola in the final scene. Toby Jones is always good in the role, and he`s been a huge teamplayer for Marvel Studios so far, so I`m excited to see him again.

Honorable mentions to Lyndsy Fonseca (Angie) and Meagen Fay (Ms Fry), who were great in their roles, even though they never really had much to do (And what was up with Howard letting Angie stay in his house? Does he even know Angie?).

The set design was also stunning, and I really like the little ways they came up of showing us the 40s lifestyle.

Last but not least, the mystery was compelling, even though the conclusion was quite anti-climatic.



For what I did not like:

Peggy Carter: unfortunately, the series` lead character isn`t nearly as interesting as the supporting ones. Peggy is what no main character should ever come close of being: a Mary Sue. She`s smarter, stronger, wiser, more intelligent, better prepared and better looking than everyone else, which is a huge problem, since it makes the character virtually an unbelievable person. You can`t have one character triumph over the others in every single aspect of life, it just doesn`t happen. Everyone has flaws, everyone is eventually wrong, and everyone is eventually outsmarted. It`s just nature. Peggy has a serious case of "I-was-right-all-along", and even when events allow for interpretation that she could be wrong, the series never addresses that. It`s everyone-should-have-listened-to-Peggy show, even moreso than with Jack Bauer in 24. At least there the character was allowed to screw up royally from time to time, and suffer the consequences. It`s a shame, really, because Hayley Atwell really delivers when she has the right material. That last scene in the bridge was very good, as was her desperation in talking with Howard in the last act.

Enver Gjokaj as Daniel Souza: This is what could have been an interesting character. His backstory is interesting, and his feelings towards the office and Peggy being a result of how he views himself due to injury is a brilliant idea for a character, but this is totally undone by execution. The script never gives us anything about him, we know nothing about him except for what I mentioned. Gjokaj does nothing to elevate the character too, he is as bland as they come.

The villains: this is another case of poor execution. The idea of having Doctor Faustus as the main antagonist and Black Widow operatives as his minions is very threatening and very intriguing, but this comes apart before complete fruition. Doctor Faustus is a shadow of his comic-book self, and Dottie comes across as just another thug. The last confrontation was also completely anticlimatic: we knew that Peggy would win a Dottie vs Peggy fight, and we knew Howard, Jarvis and Peggy would all survive the finale. The only characters whose fate was up in the air were Thompson and Sousa, and while their confrontation with Doctor Faustus was more interesting, I would have liked a more sinister approach.

The pacing: How on Earth, with only 8 episodes, does this still feels stretched? The whole plot could have easily been compressed into five-six episodes, and nothing important would have been lost.

The conclusion to the mystery also comes off as uninteresting: Corporate Big Bad Leviathan never even factors into the plot, it was all Ivchenko with one sole Black Widow operative. The anger-inducing-gas was a very boring finale, since we obviously know New York is still there in the future, and we`ve seen that gas in plenty of other series/movies.

The gadget design: while the sets look great, Stark`s inventions look as cheesy as anything they could have come up with. It`s definitely not a practical design, and nothing they would have come up with in the 40s. This is also true for that machine-gun-like revolver, which fired way more shots at a time than what it could have plausibly held. This is actually a problem that carries over from CA: TFA, since HYDRA`s tech in that movie also looked ridiculous (although that was intentional there).

Besides all of that, there were also plenty of missed opportunities to properly develop its characters that were completely overlooked: just for one simple example, take Peggy`s journey throughout the season: if this season was about her letting Cap go, we should have seen more of her clinging onto Cap in the beginning of the season, or Steve`s blood should have been a larger part of the villains` plans.

Another example: Dooley had a very close relationship with Thompson. Why don`t we get an insight on Thompson on the aftermath of Dooley`s sacrifice? Perhaps him calling Dooley`s family?

On a sidenote, they wasted James Frain! He`s a great actor, I was sorry to see him go from the MCU so soon.



Anyway, I still had a good time, and I would still like a second season (especially if Zola is involved). I would just hope that the show would focus more on its characters than on making Peggy look good. I see many have enjoyed the season, so perhaps it`s just down to personal opinion.
 
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I'm afraid they don't have that many HYDRA operatives to choose from. Aside from Zola, they have maybe two or three dozen soldiers and officers from Reinhardt's group and no one else.

As for the Nuremberg Trials, it seems they might end a bit earlier than in our history. In The Blitzkrieg Button Roger Dooley mentions to Ernst Mueller that Wilhelm Keitel was hanged a day earlier. We know the episode is set during, or slightly before May 1946, but in our history, Keitel was hanged in October 1946.

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Wilhelm_Keitel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Keitel

Back before CA:TFA came out, I was an advocate for historical characters showing up in the movie in another forum. Keitel was one of those characters that at the time I could see making an appearance (perhaps overseeing HYDRA and the Red Skull), but that obviously didn`t happen.

I would still be interested in historical figures in Agent Carter, if they got a season 2.
 
Just finished the show, I loved it! There were a couple of boring episodes but the last 4 were great, I really loved the way they handled the characters, the mystery and the action. I haven't liked any of the recent superhero shows made by DC or Marvel but this was just fantastic, Im glad I gave it a chance.

It sucks that we can't get Cap and Peggy together, she's one of the most compelling female characters in the MCU and I think it would have been great to see them together for more than just one movie but oh well, I really hope they make a second season.
 
Y'all Sousa is not the husband. It was mentioned earlier in AC that he got his leg messed up at Guadalcanal. That was the Pacific theater. Captain America was stationed on the European theater during his time in the service. They would have never met. Not to mention that the event where Cap saved Peggy's future husband (as explained in TWS) she mentioned a blizzard. Something that definitely doesn't happen in the South Pacific.
 
Someone told me that it was Jack Thompson at Guadalcanal (he had his personality blown off at Guadalcanal was the quote). I don't recall either way.
 
Y'all Sousa is not the husband. It was mentioned earlier in AC that he got his leg messed up at Guadalcanal. That was the Pacific theater. Captain America was stationed on the European theater during his time in the service. They would have never met. Not to mention that the event where Cap saved Peggy's future husband (as explained in TWS) she mentioned a blizzard. Something that definitely doesn't happen in the South Pacific.
The only time I remember Guadalcanal being mentioned was after Peggy's first roomate is killed in the pilot, I believe she tells Jarvis that the only family (of the roomate) that she knew about was a brother that was killed at Guadalcanal. I don't remember it being mentioned in relation to Sousa (or Thompson, for that matter) at all. I don't think there was anything this season that indicated exactly where exactly Sousa served. The most I think we get of his war history really is him telling the story of the chaplain trashing his footlocker.

(I admit I could be wrong though - so if you could provide an episode where you thought you remembered hearing it??)
 
Back before CA:TFA came out, I was an advocate for historical characters showing up in the movie in another forum. Keitel was one of those characters that at the time I could see making an appearance (perhaps overseeing HYDRA and the Red Skull), but that obviously didn`t happen.

I would still be interested in historical figures in Agent Carter, if they got a season 2.

So far we have only Stalin and Truman mentioned in Agent Carter. We have Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin and Keitel appearing in some old video footage in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Roosevelt was mentioned in Captain America: The First Avenger, and General Eisenhower appears in a war documentary in one deleted scene in The Avengers.

The only time I remember Guadalcanal being mentioned was after Peggy's first roomate is killed in the pilot, I believe she tells Jarvis that the only family (of the roomate) that she knew about was a brother that was killed at Guadalcanal. I don't remember it being mentioned in relation to Sousa (or Thompson, for that matter) at all. I don't think there was anything this season that indicated exactly where exactly Sousa served. The most I think we get of his war history really is him telling the story of the chaplain trashing his footlocker.

(I admit I could be wrong though - so if you could provide an episode where you thought you remembered hearing it??)

As far as I remember, it was never revealed where Sousa served. Guadalcanal was mentioned in Now is Not the End, exactly as you say, and Thompson himself said in The Iron Ceiling that he fought in Okinawa.
 
The only time I remember Guadalcanal being mentioned was after Peggy's first roomate is killed in the pilot, I believe she tells Jarvis that the only family (of the roomate) that she knew about was a brother that was killed at Guadalcanal. I don't remember it being mentioned in relation to Sousa (or Thompson, for that matter) at all. I don't think there was anything this season that indicated exactly where exactly Sousa served. The most I think we get of his war history really is him telling the story of the chaplain trashing his footlocker.

(I admit I could be wrong though - so if you could provide an episode where you thought you remembered hearing it??)

Ya know I could be wrong too. I just could've sworn that he said that's where he lost the leg. Maybe I'm just projecting because I'm a Carter/Jones shipper and I will except a Carter/Dugan ship. But like I said, I could be wrong. We know Agent Thompson was in the Pacific thanks to his messed up story about shooting the surrendering soldiers. I guess I'm not a Carter/Sousa shipper because of him trying to **** shame her when they all interrogated her. It really disenchanted me with him.
 
Seriously this was too damn good to not get a second run. More Peggy. MOAR!
 
Just finished the series. It was really top notch. I'm really glad they kept it maintained as a mini series. Here's hoping they get another series. :up:

They certainly left themselves open to more. I'd love to see a connection between the show's hypnotism guy and Faustus.
 
Really? I must've missed his name change. Aliases are kinda dumb. No reason for him not to have been called by his real name the whole time.
 
Because Marvel didn't want audiences to know he was Faustus when he was rescued from that Russian prison by the howling commandos.
 
Really? I must've missed his name change. Aliases are kinda dumb. No reason for him not to have been called by his real name the whole time.

According to Ivchenko's MCU wiki page (and I missed this fact until now) "Ivchenko" is an anagram of the name of the first person he helped with his powers to ignore the pain of amputation (whose name, apparently, was "Ovechkin").

It's not clear to me whether he took the name Ivchenko when he was forced to join Leviathan, or later, as a ruse to prevent SSR forces from recognizing his name.

EDIT: Also, if you check out two pages back in this thread, you'll see a shot of him reading a book, "The Tragic Life of Doctor Faustus".
 
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Just finished the last episode, and that ending...oh man, that perfect ending. James Cameron should take off his hat.

Overall, this has been an absolutely fantastic miniseries. I would rank it up there with Iron Man, The Avengers, and Captain America: The Winter Soldier in quality, making it one of the best things Marvel has done. It's truly incredible how cinematic it feels, and how it constantly builds on itself in the same way a movie would. It's essentially a 6-7 hour film split in 8 parts.

In many ways, this is the show Agents of SHIELD should be and should have been from the beginning. Although SHIELD's significantly improved in quality since its inception, it still retains its original of still feeling like filler material to the overall universe. Agent Carter manages to avoid that and feel necessary to the full MCU experience, not just in featuring more essential key characters as the show's protagonists, but by expanding on the many backstories and themes associated with the Avengers themselves. It does that on many cases:

1) It's an absolutely fantastic character study of the Steve/Tony dynamic, showing how they parallel each other, both the similarities and differences in their worldviews. You have Peggy who is trying to live up to Steve's ideals and Howard representing the corporate jerk-loving playboy Tony is. Every time their worldviews crash on screen, it continuously informs that dynamic. It's a fantastic prequel to Age of Ultron and Civil War in that sense, both films we know will deal with that dynamic to major degrees.

2) It's a fantastic character study of Tony himself and the parallels between him and his father. It shows Howard going through similar phases in his life that Tony went through as well, how he deals with them vs. how Tony did, introduces Jarvis and makes us understand why the Stark family would care so much for him they would create an AI in his memory, and lays the foundation for a lot of the thematic ideas Favreau used in IM1. It will be interesting to go back and look at that film in retrospective lens, with this show now informing it in the background.

3) Black Widow's backstory. This one's obvious, but it does more than just give us information we could read up on Wikipedia. It makes us feel more for her when she says she has "red on her ledger", as we now understand better the type of upbringing she had and the decisions she's had to make. Some of the things we saw with Dotty I found quite disturbing, particularly her killing her childhood friend like that and the fact she still sleeps with handcuffs after all those years. That's some great, chilling stuff.

Hayley Atwell is amazing. Peggy Carter is easily the best MCU female (IMO) as well as the best protagonist in all the superhero shows on TV at the moment. It's incredible what a presence she has on screen and the range of emotions she can bring to the character. She can make you cry in one scene, and have you laugh at her British-like bickering in the very next. She can sell herself as the ultimate badass spy in one moment, but make you feel like she's very human and vulnerable the minute after (and it's all consistent). She feels very secure and established, while still going through the Peter Parker thing of "I'm trying to balance out my life and find a place to stay" sorta thing, at least early on. She overall justifies the reasoning behind making a TV series out of this character.

Dr. Faustus is another great villain addition to the MCU, being both very menacing and fun, and continues the post-TWS thread of Marvel continuously having great HYDRA villains on screen even if the rest of their villains are lacking.

I wish the production crew the best of luck and hope for a Season 2.
 

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