Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - S2E6 "A Fractured House"

[Gr0oT]

bet there's even Feminine Shields with the SHIELD logo lol

I guess they do it for merchandising reasons?

It gets ridiculous I wouldn't be surprised if they had SHIELD pads for real.

 

[JtoDaP]

I read this theory on another site...
Very interesting.

Ward either has a fractured mind, is a pure psychopath or has been conditioned.

Hmmm and that way they can make Ward look like a victem and place him back within SHIELD. Ahhh no, hell no, that would be pretty lame.

I hope that the producers think: "Deal with it Grant Ward is a killer".

 

[Demileto]

Hmmm and that way they can make Ward look like a victem and place him back within SHIELD. Ahhh no, hell no, that would be pretty lame.

I hope that the producers think: "Deal with it Grant Ward is a killer".

I seem to recall Hunter and Bobby killing plenty of people last episode, guess they're evil too.

 

[Silvermoon]

This also creates an inconsistency with The Dark World where SHIELD was still said to be a secret.

Eh, it's Ian and Darcy that say that. Ian may have not followed every single piece of news and Darcy is, well, Darcy. I'd say it's like when Tony called Thor a "demi-god" in Avengers (which I remember people throwing a fit about "why is Thor only a demi-god in the MCU?!? - he's a GOD not a demi-god!!!" etc...), it might be the character's own thought/perception - it doesn't necessarily make it absolute truth.

If that makes sense.

 

[Comics]

Eh, it's Ian and Darcy that say that. Ian may have not followed every single piece of news and Darcy is, well, Darcy. I'd say it's like when Tony called Thor a "demi-god" in Avengers (which I remember people throwing a fit about "why is Thor only a demi-god in the MCU?!? - he's a GOD not a demi-god!!!" etc...), it might be the character's own thought/perception - it doesn't necessarily make it absolute truth.

If that makes sense.

It was production related. I recall reading that they had to call him a Demi-God to keep the U.S. Bible Bashers happy.

(Don't shoot/crucify the messenger!)

 

[Comics]

This also creates an inconsistency with The Dark World where SHIELD was still said to be a secret.

Where did it show the Shield revealed themselves? I can't remember that happening.

They were always known to the Government, just not the public. As previously stated, just like the NSA that they/Hydra are mirroring aspects of in Cap2

 

[Silvermoon]

It was production related. I recall reading that they had to call him a Demi-God to keep the U.S. Bible Bashers happy.

(Don't shoot/crucify the messenger!)

Even so, my point to PunyGod still stands. It's the type of thing that just because a character says it, doesn't make it absolute truth in-world. At that point in time, the most Tony is willing to concede to Thor being is a demi-god. That doesn't mean, that just because Tony said it, that's *exactly* what Thor is in the MCU - end of discussion/period. It's just Tony's own perception - his own opinion. Likewise, Ian not knowing about SHIELD and Darcy saying "It's secret" in TDW could just as easily be their own perceptions - not absolute truth for the entire world. I think the potential contradiction can be worked around in this case.

 

[seahammer]

Where did it show the Shield revealed themselves? I can't remember that happening.

They were always known to the Government, just not the public. As previously stated, just like the NSA that they/Hydra are mirroring aspects of in Cap2

I was about to say the same thing. I always got the impression that SHIELD was supposed to be like one of those agencies that's out there, but not really on people's radar unless they're "in the biz." I could just as easily picture Ian saying "What's the NSA?" and Darcy saying "It's a secret."

Honestly, how many Americans really know the difference between the FBI and the CIA, or have any idea what the NSA is (some don't even know that it exists... ), or understand all the different things that the DHS does? Who knows the jurisdiction of INTERPOL?

I don't think SHIELD being something that people don't know much (or anything) about is that big a stretch.

 

[PunyGod]

...

 

[JtoDaP]

I seem to recall Hunter and Bobby killing plenty of people last episode, guess they're evil too.

Killing evil mercenaries/HYDRA puppets don't make you evil. Not in my point of view, depands on wich side your on.

Well if your the henchmans wife...they are evil:

[YT]Ag_AFraxj-4[/YT]

 

[Demileto]

Killing evil mercenaries/HYDRA puppets don't make you evil. Not in my point of view, depands on wich side your on

Captain America would disagree with you.

The Hunter/Bobby example, I'll admit, was bad because the guys were armed, but the unconscious (as in, defenseless) henchman and the ammoral but innocent scientist Fitz and Simmons killed, respectively, were not, they were both cold blooded murders. SHIELD and Hydra only differ on the goals, not the methods, they're both very ruthless. Why do you think Captain America objected to Nick Fury trying to save any remains of SHIELD?

I'll also cut and paste a post I did on SpoilerTV about Ward's killing of the police officer in last episode:

This is a TV show, not real life. We weren't given a single bit of character development to remotely empathize with his death and, as such, that guy is a random nobody I could care less if he lives or dies. He's a "stormtrooper", for all intents and purposes. Same thing with the guards of the Fridge, Thomas Nash and most of the other people he killed. It's for no other reason that, of all the crimes he did, Coulson only ever uses Fitz's brain damage as well as Victoria Hand and Eric Koenig's deaths to justify his handling of Ward: those are the people that matter to the audience.

And not even those deaths hold that much weight when all is said and done! If, for example, we were suddenly presented a storyline where Ward moves heaven and hell to find a cure for Fitz's condition, acquires it and heals him to his former glory, the general audience would recognize his efforts and his slate would, for all intents and purposes, be cleaned for them, the deaths becoming a long distant memory. You can find quite a few examples of this in shows of the present, like Once Upon a Time, and the past, like Buffy and Angel. In fact, this is a Whedon trope, so you can sort of expect it at some point.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Captain America would disagree with you.

Is this before or after he throws the guy through the drones propeller in TFA?

 

[JtoDaP]

Captain America would disagree with you.

The Hunter/Bobby example, I'll admit, was bad because the guys were armed, but the unconscious (as in, defenseless) henchman and the ammoral but innocent scientist Fitz and Simmons killed, respectively, were not, they were both cold blooded murders. SHIELD and Hydra only differ on the goals, not the methods, they're both very ruthless. Why do you think Captain America objected to Nick Fury trying to save any remains of SHIELD?

And i'll admit that you're right and they are all killers. Becaus they all killed people. And if you mean by "inoccent" scientist, the one that Simmons betrayed at HYDRA, he was getting a hard on, on millions of deaths.

Captain America wouldn't brand you with the stamp evil, he wouldn't aprove just like Charles Xavier wouldn't aprove. But they wouldn't call you evil. They would try and get you to court.
Oké the unconsious henchman was ruthless and brutall and also stupid, they could have gotten info out of him.

And i agree with you that the general audience will whipe Grant Wards slate clean if he somehow helps the team in a big way. But that, for me, would be really stupid and unbelievable. I mean, in this case, he is on the bad side and killed people who fought/proect/contained for good reasons
and who fought EVIL. I'm not saying that its nessecary to kill off every HYDRA member, but it is nessecary to take hard measures when the stakes are high.

Don't want to sprak a discussion about real life situations but I mean in TV land.

Sorry if my English isn't that good, High school is a long time ago.

 

[the dmg]

Another solid episode.

I like the that you don't really know who to believe when it comes to the Ward brothers and I'm pretty sure Coulson picked up on that, but needed the heat off SHIELD. This was Coulson's best play, but as soon as the transfer was going to happen, I knew he would be escaping. It's funny that Coulson tells the guards not to give him an inch and they aren't paying attention to him. He was cuffed from the front and the guard sitting across from him didn't even notice.

Other than that, I liked the way they updated Scarlotti. Hunter and Bobbi's back and forth banter was great.

And this was great to see for the millionth time:

 

[JtoDaP]

That face!

 

[Heretic]

Captain America is a soldier. Soldiers kill the soldiers of opposing armies.

For a long time, Marvel tried to write Captain America as if he were Superman. That never seemed right to me. I was happy to see them turn him back into a soldier.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Bwahaha Hems is great! So much with so little.

 

[Loki882]

If I remember correctly (and someone please correct me if I'm mistaken) the flashbacks relating to Ward's brothers were mostly in his head. He wasn't telling them to anyone, at least not at first, so he couldn't have been overtly "lying." So either he's completely delusional and lying to himself about what happened, or Senator White Collar is lying. Right now I'm banking on the latter.

It's interesting to watch the team's interactions with Ward. It shows another way that they're different from Fury and the old SHIELD. Fury, Hawkeye, and the old SHIELD took an assassin/enemy agent/mass murderer like Black Widow and not only recruited her into SHIELD, but made her a fairly high-ranking operative (high enough to work directly for Fury and Hill anyway). In short, they gave her a shot a redemption. Coulson and co threw Ward into a hole and have done nothing but call him a monster and tell him to go to Hell basically. Ironically, Coulson is supposed to be the more noble/idealistic one and yet this situation makes Fury and Clint look better in that regard. That's assuming that Coulson didn't let Ward escape, which is a possibility.

 

[CoherentChaos]

Another great episode, but yet another over powered device that will likely never show up again.

So far there's been quite a collection of things that I feel would easily many of our protagonists if used wisely by a ruthless villain. The MCU continuity has been nice so far, but there's still a lot of loose ends that hold horrible implications.

Like the paralyzing device in Iron Man 1. Or the weird stasis thing on the train episode of Season 1. Hell, TIH even ended with Bruce's blood being mass produced. Where did all that end up?

Some explanation of why these things aren't terrifyingly widespread among criminal organizations would be nice.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Some explanation of why these things aren't terrifyingly widespread among criminal organizations would be nice.

Season 1 started off exploring that very concept. The show opened with Ward capturing that Chitauri neural link before VanChat could sell it, and the entire Centipede program was built off illegal Super Soldier/Gamma/Extremis research. Keeping as much dangerous tech off the streets as possible was the teams main priority until Winter Soldier happened and everything fell apart.

 

[iambranded]

That face!

I know right.......... Thor had the classic......OHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOO look.......
LOVED IT

 

[Infinity9999x]

If I remember correctly (and someone please correct me if I'm mistaken) the flashbacks relating to Ward's brothers were mostly in his head. He wasn't telling them to anyone, at least not at first, so he couldn't have been overtly "lying." So either he's completely delusional and lying to himself about what happened, or Senator White Collar is lying. Right now I'm banking on the latter.

It's interesting to watch the team's interactions with Ward. It shows another way that they're different from Fury and the old SHIELD. Fury, Hawkeye, and the old SHIELD took an assassin/enemy agent/mass murderer like Black Widow and not only recruited her into SHIELD, but made her a fairly high-ranking operative (high enough to work directly for Fury and Hill anyway). In short, they gave her a shot a redemption. Coulson and co threw Ward into a hole and have done nothing but call him a monster and tell him to go to Hell basically. Ironically, Coulson is supposed to be the more noble/idealistic one and yet this situation makes Fury and Clint look better in that regard. That's assuming that Coulson didn't let Ward escape, which is a possibility.

I think his brother lying is more likely as well, but I think it would be more interesting if it was somewhere in the middle. What if his brother wasn't a good dude, but Ward is also totally messed up in the head? That could be fun to see.

And the Widow/Ward comparison really isn't fair. Widow was an agent working for another group, Ward infiltrated their ranks and was working against them the entire time. I don't think Fury would have been as forgiving of Natasha had she done that.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Captain America would disagree with you.

Err...what? Cap was shown to have killed multiple Hydra agents in WWII and during TWS.

Cap doesn't enjoy killing, he doesn't like it, and if there's any other way he'll take that road over ending a life, but he'll certainly do it. And he's been shown to multiple times in the filmverse.

 

[JtoDaP]

And the Widow/Ward comparison really isn't fair. Widow was an agent working for another group, Ward infiltrated their ranks and was working against them the entire time. I don't think Fury would have been as forgiving of Natasha had she done that.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Demileto]

Err...what? Cap was shown to have killed multiple Hydra agents in WWII and during TWS.

Cap doesn't enjoy killing, he doesn't like it, and if there's any other way he'll take that road over ending a life, but he'll certainly do it. And he's been shown to multiple times in the filmverse.

I was too lazy to rewrite my post to put it in a better context, admittedly. The point I was trying to make is that Captain always do it as a very last resort and never does it in cold blood. He never goes for the throat, so to speak.

People chastise Ward for cold blood murder, but I don't see anyone doing the same for Fitz, who killed an unconscious and very much defenseless henchman in TRACKS, and Simmons, who, for all intents and purposes, killed her amoral but very much innocent fellow scientist. So because people associate the other guys with "evil" they're not worth living? Who's to say they couldn't have a change of heart? Black Widow was once on the "evil" side and was responsible for cruelties far worse than Ward ever did, but she changed and is now one of the heroes. No one here can claim it'd be different with the henchman or the scientist, so what Fitz and Simmons did was no less wrong than what Ward did.