Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 1 Episode 15 "Yes Men" Discussion Thread

[Heretic]

Again, ZERO people are defending it...we're merely trying to figure out Marvel's mindset for why they went that route.

And again, Ward also made a comment about Simmons when he was in his rage state...basically using his rescue of her to belittle the guy that likes her. It at least implies that he considered the idea of hooking up with her as well. This basically covers every woman in the entire season except the one who was only there to undergo the eye surgery.

But again...they should not have done this. It was a dumb move on their part because it will likely never be mentioned again, and it should. However, for all we know it could be yet another trauma event that is adding up to some bigger plan for him...and if that is the case, then it DOES serve a purpose and will come back to haunt everyone.

 

[Gr0oT]

I just double-checked. He actually clarified it on his facebook page. You can find articles about it online, including that site that must not be named.

Are you talking about **************s.com?


What the hell is up with that anyways?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

By the way, Six...

May has been established as a woman who has sex without emotion. In fact, it's Ward who gets all emotional about it. Ian Quinn and Grant Ward are similar in type...so if the situation were not such that Ian was an enemy, then maybe she would have hooked up with him had she just met him somewhere. Unlike Ward, she has shown that she is all business when it comes to business, and does not allow herself to be distracted. As it stands, Ward was dealing with a woman whose words and touch turn men into slaves...and he allowed her to walk up to him and touch his hand...even though he could have stopped her. He chose not to because the guy just isn't all business.

I was just about to bring this up. The scene literally before they rush in to try and capture her Sif tells them that she enchants you by speaking and then if you are one of the few who resist it then she touches you and it's a wrap, you are now hers to control. So they got loaded out with guns specifically designed to hopefully put down Asgardians/SuperHumans and when she jumps down in front of him, then slowly walks toward Ward where he has a dead to rights shot HE LETS HER SPEAK!

THEN when he doesn't fall under her control he ASK FOR BACK UP AND LETS HER TOUCH HIM!!! I mean c'mon! They have gone out of their way to try and build him up as this super spy BAMF. Yet they consistently show him making stupid decisions and rookie mistakes even though he is supposed to be Skye's SO. I know him going under her spell was the whole point of the episode and stirred up the drama but can they make Ward competent?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

This episode was fantastic! Not only did it ramp things up among the shield team, but opens up a lot of new possibilities for the marvel cinematic universe as a whole. Jamie Alexander was great as Lady Sif and gave her a bit more character development the Thor movies never did. Imagine in season 2 of this show we get Jermey Renner as Hawkeye or Scarlett as Black Widow cameo' or guest appearance on the show.

 

[Heretic]

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed. Her words did not phase him...but he's so unprofessional that he allowed her boobs to seduce enough that he ended up captured. He would have dropped her with that gun of his if she had been a male.

But as I said...they have been quietly adding up a bunch of trauma on Ward and then not really focusing on it much afterward. Maybe this is all a plan to at some point have him break.

Of course...I hate the character anyway. I personally would have made him a faithful family man who happens to be the best soldier we have, and he misses his family terribly but sacrifices spending time with them because he knows that he is needed to protect the world (and, by extension, his family)...I'd have named him Frank Castle.

 

[Gr0oT]

Well good thing you didn't have a hand in this.
NOT MUH FRANK!

Hopefully he'll play a role in the upcoming Netflix DD series.

 

[zeroapoc]

An incident like this involving a female actually did happen in Marvel Comics.

http://carolastrickland.com/comics/msmarvel/

 

[Heretic]

Well good thing you didn't have a hand in this.
NOT MUH FRANK!

Hopefully he'll play a role in the upcoming Netflix DD series.

In order for you to have your Frank, the actor would have to be going on 60...so odds are any Frank that we get would be a younger soldier...kinda like what I would have done instead of having Ward on this show.

Sometimes you have to change some small details around...though clearly Marvel wanted to save Punisher's origin for something other than a major network tv series...something smaller than that, of course.

 

[Gr0oT]

In order for you to have your Frank, the actor would have to be going on 60...so odds are any Frank that we get would be a younger soldier...kinda like what I would have done instead of having Ward on this show.

Sometimes you have to change some small details around...though clearly Marvel wanted to save Punisher's origin for something other than a major network tv series...something smaller than that, of course.

Not really the place for it, but anyways the common complaint that people have about the Punisher is that he is just a generic "Death Wish" type of vigilante.

I think adapting the Ennis Punisher MAX mythos would be the best way around this, especially with a focus on Born.
Castle is a man broken by war and has become ensnared by its violent trappings. Deep down it is the only place where he feels alive, where he has a clear purpose and he doesn't want it to end.
He inadvertently seals a pack with Death for a neverending war.
The eventual slaughter of his family was predestined by this deal and tragically he gets what he wanted.
He is a pawn of Death, even wears her symbol...

The fact that he somehow can continuously pursue this bloody mission without getting killed, and that he ages so very slowly can be attributed to Death's influence, denying him freedom from life.

A lot of people don't like that interpretation of Castle but I think it helps him better fit in a place as obscure as the Marvel Universe and it would also justify the use of Vietnam as his 'birthplace'.

Having the Gulf War or him being a cop or SHIELD agent really takes a lot away from what would craft such a twisted psyche in the first place.
All wars are bad but everything about Vietnam was pretty much heinous and can easily set the tone for Frank's fall from grace.

 

[Frodo]

I thought this and the last episode were pretty good. It shows how good the show could be once you have interesting characters like Paxton's character, Lory, and Sif. I basically watch the show for Ming Na, when I do watch it at least, and I even thought her interaction with Ward wasn't bad. I still don't think Ward is all that interesting but it worked for this episode. I think the issue may b is that he is sort of a male version of May. Maybe if they had written him as more of a rouge bad boy spy type but who's good at his job , he would have been more interesting than the stolid boy scout type they've made him. It would make the dynamic between May , Ward, and Skye more interesting. Still good episode though.

 

[Heretic]

Not really the place for it, but anyways the common complaint that people have about the Punisher is that he is just a generic "Death Wish" type of vigilante.

I think adapting the Ennis Punisher MAX mythos would be the best way around this, especially with a focus on Born.
Castle is a man broken by war and has become ensnared by its violent trappings. Deep down it is the only place where he feels alive, where he has a clear purpose and he doesn't want it to end.
He inadvertently seals a pack with Death for a neverending war.
The eventual slaughter of his family was predestined by this deal and tragically he gets what he wanted.
He is a pawn of Death, even wears her symbol...

The fact that he somehow can continuously pursue this bloody mission without getting killed, and that he ages so very slowly can be attributed to Death's influence, denying him freedom from life.

A lot of people don't like that interpretation of Castle but I think it helps him better fit in a place as obscure as the Marvel Universe and it would also justify the use of Vietnam as his 'birthplace'.

Having the Gulf War or him being a cop or SHIELD agent really takes a lot away from what would craft such a twisted psyche in the first place.
All wars are bad but everything about Vietnam was pretty much heinous and can easily set the tone for Frank's fall from grace.

Yeah, I don't like the deal with the devil aspect. Besides that, I think that placing him in the war on terror would make the character resonate more with today's audiences. Maybe he could have some sort of PTSD...and actually resent the fact that what he is best at is killing people...but knowing that it is his destiny to do that. However, when you show flashbacks, it wouldn't be Gulf War stuff...you use Ten Rings as the terror group, tying him to the Marvel Universe.

But yeah...not really the place to discuss Punisher. I just REALLY wish that they had used characters from the comics on SHIELD.

 

[iamlegend]

I think part of it is that it is something completely fictitious that has no bearings on reality and that 99% of heterosexual males who admired Lorelei could easily entertain the thought of courting her.

Had it been Lena Dunham I'd be much more vocal about the twisted implications of it all but being as it is I could imagine a million things worse than the fate of having the best sex of my life, albeit it somewhat involuntarily.

The issue isn't the sex or even if someone would enjoy it. It's that if a male Asgardian showed up and had magically induced sex with Simmons, the freaking Internet would have exploded by now. Absolute double standard, and a truly disturbing one.

 

[Heretic]

But again...how do you know that this is never going to be mentioned again???

Ward was "infected" with rage...and it was said that it will take years to work itself out...and it has been barely mentioned since...but it HAS been mentioned. This means that they likely have plans for Ward. This may have been yet another piece of their puzzle.

 

[Asr]

Sif officially just got more screentime in a ~45-minute TV show than she did over the course of two Thor movies. Was glad to see more Sif and she kicked plenty of ass too. I thought it was a little ridiculous that she basically destroyed the door to the Vegas hotel room for no logical reason though.

Favorite Sif line was definitely the "Philip, Son of Coul" part.

Now looking forward to seeing the Kree in future MCU films....

 

[<(o_o)>]

So what do you think Asgard will do if Lorelei gets pregnant from her little one night stand with Ward, send it to the orphanage or something? Who knows maybe Lorelei had an off screen quicky with one of the bikers so there is really no real way to tell on Asgard who the father could be unless they came back to earth & went on Maury Povich or something for a DNA test. Maybe Sif could show back up in season 2 with the baby if one was in fact conceived & leave it with Ward.

 

[Herolee10]

On another note, I thought Asgardians were overall impervious to bullets, so why was Sif using a shield to block herself from it? Unless, she doesn't know that she's impervious to it.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

On another note, I thought Asgardians were overall impervious to bullets, so why was Sif using a shield to block herself from it? Unless, she doesn't know that she's impervious to it.

Just because she's impervious doesn't mean she can't be hurt or irritated. I am impervious to rice, but if someone threw it in my face I would still block myself.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

To the people going on about rape... Lorelei is a villain and a goddess and most importantly, she's out of the picture. What more is there to explore? It may be rape, but it's not like a human woman got Ward drunk and then boned him and ran away the next morning. Ward was raped by a sorceress from another world, and on top of that he was completely conscious and aware and willing the whole time, or did you guys miss that part?

 

[universeman]

So what do you think Asgard will do if Lorelei gets pregnant from her little one night stand with Ward, send it to the orphanage or something? Who knows maybe Lorelei had an off screen quicky with one of the bikers so there is really no real way to tell on Asgard who the father could be unless they came back to earth & went on Maury Povich or something for a DNA test. Maybe Sif could show back up in season 2 with the baby if one was in fact conceived & leave it with Ward.

Let's be glad it was Ward and not Clark from Smallville! a Asgardian/Kryptonian baby how powerful would that baby be!

 

[OnTheAir]

When Coulson met with Agent Sitwell, he said that Fury was "off the grid." We know from at least one of the Captain America: The Winter Soldier trailers or tv spots that Fury demands to be taken "off the grid" while he is apparently under attack. Does this mean that this particular episode takes place either during or after CA:TWS? Or, does Fury take himself "off the grid" from time to time?

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

When Coulson met with Agent Sitwell, he said that Fury was "off the grid." We know from at least one of the Captain America: The Winter Soldier trailers or tv spots that Fury demands to be taken "off the grid" while he is apparently under attack. Does this mean that this particular episode takes place either during or after CA:TWS? Or, does Fury take himself "off the grid" from time to time?

Your avatar is hilarious

 

[OnTheAir]

Your avatar is hilarious

 

[seahammer]

...
Also, does anyone know who Lorelei was talking about when she told Sif that she had taken her love from her? I really doubt that she was talking about Thor.

And if my memory serves me correct, she mentioned two names, with Thor's being the second, of men that Sif had strong feelings for in the past.

I couldn't hear it clearly, either. I'm going to have to re-watch this tonight. Like I said earlier or in another thread, I don't recall Sif dating anyone other than Thor and Beta Ray Bill in the comics (and it certainly wouldn't be ol' horse face), but I could be having a lapse in memory.

I couldn't hear her list of blue aliens clearly, either. I'll definitely post if I hear something that hasn't been mentioned already.


Also, some Sif-Lorelei rivalry from the comics:

Spoiler

 

[M-2]

Loved SIF in this episode, if anything she really lifted this show... It just felt more grand and intense with Sif, and Jaimie is soo perfect in the role.

Here's hoping the next CAP film is, CAPTAIN AMERICA's SECRET AVENGERS
Think Sif needs to jump out those Thor films because the writers have no idea how awesome she is!

 

[Donut]

If May turns out to be a traitor & is killed or arrested during the finale. I say have Sif replace her