Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 1 Episode 15 "Yes Men" Discussion Thread

[Silvermoon]

Also, the name of Sif's lover that Lorelei mentions is Haldorr. He's not from the comics, I'm pretty sure.

Hmmm.....http://www.behindthename.com/name/haldor

HALDOR
GENDER: Masculine
USAGE: Norwegian
Meaning & History
From the Old Norse name Hallþórr, which meant "Thor's rock" from hallr "rock" combined with the name of the Norse god Þórr (see THOR).
Related Names
See All Relations
Show Family Tree
VARIANT: Halldor
OTHER LANGUAGES: Hallþórr (Ancient Scandinavian), Halldór (Icelandic)

 

[seahammer]

^ Haha, first Peggy and now Haldor. You're going to be my go-to person for name history from now on, Silvermoon!

Interesting that it derives from Thor, too. I wonder if Haldorr was intended to be a mortal that Lorelei seduced when she ran roughshod over the 9 realms last time. (Of course, it's 99.9% likely just a throw away name with no backstory, but my mind always fills in the blanks...)

 

[Silvermoon]

^ Haha, first Peggy and now Haldor. You're going to be my go-to person for name history from now on, Silvermoon!

Interesting that it derives from Thor, too. I wonder if Haldorr was intended to be a mortal that Lorelei seduced when she ran roughshod over the 9 realms last time. (Of course, it's 99.9% likely just a throw away name with no backstory, but my mind always fills in the blanks...)

Eh... it's only because I'm on a google kick today




(that is allowing me to become distracted from work - which considering I feel like crud as it is - stupid cold is kicking my butt - I've had very little motivation today anyways.... seriously considering going home early)

 

[Drz]

Can someone tell me why can't Heimdall see that Odin is Loki?

 

[Dregride]

Can someone tell me why can't Heimdall see that Odin is Loki?

Because heimdall can only see through interstellar space
Or he's just not looking at Odin cause he has no reason to(logic)

 

[kosh33]

Hmmm.....http://www.behindthename.com/name/haldor

so sif loved someone called Thor's rocks? interesting

 

[kosh33]

Can someone tell me why can't Heimdall see that Odin is Loki?

loki's magic has been shown to be too good for heimdall even in the first movie

 

[Jedi_Atticus]

I watched the episode yesterday, thought it was great. Acouple things I'm wondering

1. Is Heimdal is still in charge of protecting the bifrost, and if so did Loki find a way to shield both his and Odin's presence? Given the events in Thor 2, I couldn't see Loki freeing someone who had the potential of seeing through him.

2. Is it possible that all the Shield agents that ask Coulson about Tahiti are all the ones that know and they ask him to make sure his new memory is still intact?

 

[Loki882]

I watched the episode yesterday, thought it was great. Acouple things I'm wondering

1. Is Heimdal is still in charge of protecting the bifrost, and if so did Loki find a way to shield both his and Odin's presence? Given the events in Thor 2, I couldn't see Loki freeing someone who had the potential of seeing through him.

2. Is it possible that all the Shield agents that ask Coulson about Tahiti are all the ones that know and they ask him to make sure his new memory is still intact?

Loki was able to fool both Heimdall and Odin way back in the first Thor movie. He also knew ways in and out of Asgard that Heimdall couldn't see. Also, Heimdall's gaze seems to be only as effective as the particular plot needs it to be.

 

[Jedi_Atticus]

I know acouple others have asked Coulson. I just figured it would be a good way for them to keep an eye on him and his memories.

 

[Jedi_Atticus]

I know Loki knows how to mask himself from Heimdal, was mainly just wondering if Heimdal can always see or sense someone or if its only when he focuses on them.

 

[Jedi_Atticus]

For whatever reason my phone didnt show the posts above mine that answered my question.

 

[Eddie]

so sif loved someone called Thor's rocks? interesting

Sif's always felt a burning passion for Thor's rocks.


I'll let myself out.

 

[kosh33]

I know Loki knows how to mask himself from Heimdal, was mainly just wondering if Heimdal can always see or sense someone or if its only when he focuses on them.

its hard to say, he normally never moves away from his guarding position or his gaze; i think he has to focus to see anyone in general

 

[hopeless]

Sitwell: How was Tahiti?
Coulson: It sucked!

And Sif has just arrived!

Yes Men has started on Channel 4 in the UK!

Okay so

Spoiler

Coulson didn't encounter Lorelei and Fitz simply assumed he had!
I wondered how Coulson avoided that!

Oh!

Spoiler

May overhears Skye and Coulson talking and I think this is the first time she uses her private line to Director Fury... I think that's what she meant by "He Knows"

Fitz maybe you ought to tag your weapons and not tell anyone but Coulson in future?

 

[Lord Voracios]

This episode was what brought me here just to rant about the double standards and some slightly dim plot points. First, all the characters are warned about her abilities, if the voice won't work alone, a touch will. Yet Ward just lets her touch him despite first resisting her voice, a bit on the thick side..

Right onto the treatment of Ward. Ward is raped. doesn't matter that she's hot. She could have given him a drug to control him to the same effect. Would it matter if a guy was hot if it had been May? Can you imagine Ward punching May in the face when she comes out of mind control? Or have Ward say essentially 'Don't worry Phil, I can still shoot her!'... Considering the lengths they went to in order to save their newest team member in the previous episode, the idea that Coulson wouldn't make clear that Ward be taken alive if it all possible is just a glaring omission.

In short Ward:
-Is considered instantly as good as dead.
-Nothing but a threat
-Raped
-No plan made to restrain him non-lethally (despite it being established that their armory is now full of these non-lethals)
-Punched in the face by someone on his own team who knows he's free from control 'for the lulz'

Oh and they hit Fitz over the head with something despite having a pile of weapons with the same effect that don't lead to brain damage. This is worse treatment than they gave a guy who was just about to explode in the first episode.. So um, why?

Oh and I know it's a comic book physics thing.. Yet I can't get my head round why people are sucked up and out of the plane when the high security brig is opened. Where's the constant stream of decompression coming from? It's certainly not just because it's a bit windy up there.

P.s That grenade based on Fitz-Simmons' own tech which they've had enough time to create their own of... That might have come in handy for taking down a room of innocent (till proven guilty anyway) guys who just happened to be under mind control... No? Ok then. Send a woman with a double ended sword in.

Simmons: "I'm not saying you are weak, I'm saying all men are weak."

That's an inspiring message guys at Marvel. You don't think young men might be watching this?

 

[Endeavor]

Welcome to the hype Voracios.

Good points. But keep on watching. The show gets better and things will make a lot more sense. Hope you can catch up before season 3 starts.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

That's an inspiring message guys at Marvel. You don't think young men might be watching this?

I should hope most men watching a show like this are capable of distinguishing fiction from reality.

 

[Loki882]

Yes, the treatment of Ward in the Lorelei episode was, not good. By the characters in-universe or the writers. In fact, it gets dangerously close to the old "men cannot be raped by women" cliché. And if the roles had been reversed, you can be DAMN sure that the show would have treated it differently.

 

[Loki882]

Because heimdall can only see through interstellar space
Or he's just not looking at Odin cause he has no reason to(logic)

Heimdall's "all seeingness" seems limited to, whatever the plot needs it to be at a given time. He can see everything, except Thor's GF, or that "Odin" is Loki, or whatever the Hell Thanos is up to, or that another Infinity Stone is on Xandar, or the big-ass Dark Elf ship that was right above him. Yes, truly he is the "all-seeing" guardian, truly "nothing ever escaped his gaze" prior to the Frost Giants in Thor.

 

[Lord Voracios]

I should hope most men watching a show like this are capable of distinguishing fiction from reality.

We're not talking about super powers or cloaking devices here, we're talking about themes which are just as relevant in the real world as in fiction, and views espoused by characters who are 'the good guys' are certainly a moral and ethical compass.

Star Trek was the moral guide for the youth of at least a couple of generations, just because it had Borg in it doesn't mean that the moral of the story was lost.

... After all, some claim we take our entire morality from a work of fiction with a talking Snake in it. Seems relevant.

 

[Chemistro]

We're not talking about super powers or cloaking devices here, we're talking about themes which are just as relevant in the real world as in fiction, and views espoused by characters who are 'the good guys' are certainly a moral and ethical compass.

Star Trek was the moral guide for the youth of at least a couple of generations, just because it had Borg in it doesn't mean that the moral of the story was lost.

... After all, some claim we take our entire morality from a work of fiction with a talking Snake in it. Seems relevant.

The influence of fiction on people's moral beliefs is difficult to assess; there is some influence, but surely not as much as suggested by that claim (btw, those making that particular claim of course don't claim it's fiction, and the claim is false anyway).

That said, you make some good points about the character's actions. Just a couple of issues:

a. Ward was barely managing to resist Lorelei. He may well not have been capable of doing something to avoid being touched.
b. It seems to me May did not punch Ward for the lulz. She punched him because Lorelei told her that while Ward was with her (i.e., May) before Lorelei, he actually wanted someone else. She might have been lying, but May probably already suspected that, so she reckoned Ward was using her as a substitute for another person, and she was angry and punched him for that reason (which is still wrong).

That aside, I don't remember if they had other weapons at hand when they hit Fitz. Did they?

 

[Mike5575]

I liked "Yes Men" because of Sif, only. The rest of the episode sucked. Seriously, Ward gets raped by Lorelei and we are supposed to feel sorry Agent May?! GTFO!