Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 1 Episode 17 "Turn, Turn, Turn" Discussion Thread

[WildChild]

Damn fine episode!I already can't wait to re watch this season to see the clues that lead to this.

 

[hoy-small-fry]

Marvel One-Shot: Sitwell Boards a Boat

I'd watch it

 

[Mike Murdock]

One should not get tied up with details when comparing daytime/nighttime between M:AoS-TTT and CA:TWS as that would have to assume they are in the same time zones.

They were in the same time zone. Not only did they mention where they were going for the Clairvoyant (Florida), but the Victoria Hand's screen on the Hub showed precisely where the Bus was when redirected. It was essentially over the Chesapeake Bay (the plane symbol was large enough to put the plane anywhere from North Carolina to Delaware, but essentially around DC). The plane got redirected at night in the eastern time zone, the same time zone as where the Triskelion is located.

Here's my attempt to explain the timeline:

Spoiler

Day One (starting with Fury asking Project Insight to be delayed):
Morning - Fury asks for Project Insight to be delayed. Coulson's team try to take down Deathlok.
Afternoon - Fury calls Coulson's team and tells them to go to the Triskelion and then calls Maria Hill. He is attacked by the Winter Soldier and nearly killed but escapes. Coulson's team fights Deathlok and encounters the man they believe to be the Clairvoyant. Ward shoots that person. They are told to go back to meet Fury at the Triskelion.
Evening - (This is completely made up, but I'm padding out the time slightly) The Bus refuels for the journey back. Fury hides out in Rogers apartment, but is shot anyway. At some point (probably earlier in the day when Fury was attacked), a coded message goes out telling HYDRA agents to take out top operatives. Hand, who, like Fury suspected something, figures out the message and redirects the Bus.

Day Two
Early Morning - A standoff on the Bus occurs. Finally, May contacts Fury, but is told he is dead. The bus begins its long (6+ hour) journey to the Hub somewhere in Europe or Africa. The team deciphers the message from HYDRA but can't get through to Triskelion or the Hub because the message is jamming communication.
Mid-Morning - Piece makes an attempt to get Rogers to join them. When he refuses, he orders Rogers killed. Rogers escapes and dodges people in the mall.
Mid-Afternoon (EDT) - The Bus lands at the Hub. They try backing things up and wiping their systems. Then they sneak out to try and take down Hand.
Evening - The team fights Hand, figures out Garrett is the Clairvoyant. Events over here basically come to a stop. Rogers finds the bunker with Zola's computer in it. The bunker is destroyed by missile.

Day Three
Early Morning - Rogers teams up with Falcon. They find Sitwell and learn everything. They try to take down the Triskelion, but encounter the Winter Solider. Sitwell is thrown into a mfing truck!
Mid-Morning - They fight the Winter Soldier, they are captured, and Agent Hill helps them escape.
Mid-Afternoon - They meet with Fury, they coordinate their plan, they attack the Helicarrier. Rogers sends out his message to all of SHIELD. Those who have not yet fallen rally to fight HYDRA. People in the Triskelion try to do the same, but seem to get shot the second they try. Rogers takes down the Helicarriers. Hand tells Coulson that Rogers destroyed the Helicarriers and they prepare to transport Garrett. Ward shoots Hand and two other agents, ending the episode.

I have two gaps in Coulson's team. The first is for re-fueling and fits the gap in the movie for Fury's actions. It's just to go from the afternoon to the evening and would only be a couple hours. The second is longer and is basically the gap between them stopping Garrett and them leaving with him prisoner. If I were to give a reason for it, how about everyone getting some sleep while they wait to see what happens in DC?

 

[Ghostcrow13]

They were in the same time zone. Not only did they mention where they were going for the Clairvoyant (Florida), but the Victoria Hand's screen on the Hub showed precisely where the Bus was when redirected. It was essentially over the Chesapeake Bay (the plane symbol was large enough to put the plane anywhere from North Carolina to Delaware, but essentially around DC). The plane got redirected at night in the eastern time zone, the same time zone as where the Triskelion is located.

Here's my attempt to explain the timeline:

Spoiler

Day One (starting with Fury asking Project Insight to be delayed):
Morning - Fury asks for Project Insight to be delayed. Coulson's team try to take down Deathlok.
Afternoon - Fury calls Coulson's team and tells them to go to the Triskelion and then calls Maria Hill. He is attacked by the Winter Soldier and nearly killed but escapes. Coulson's team fights Deathlok and encounters the man they believe to be the Clairvoyant. Ward shoots that person. They are told to go back to meet Fury at the Triskelion.
Evening - (This is completely made up, but I'm padding out the time slightly) The Bus refuels for the journey back. Fury hides out in Rogers apartment, but is shot anyway. At some point (probably earlier in the day when Fury was attacked), a coded message goes out telling HYDRA agents to take out top operatives. Hand, who, like Fury suspected something, figures out the message and redirects the Bus.

Day Two
Early Morning - A standoff on the Bus occurs. Finally, May contacts Fury, but is told he is dead. The bus begins its long (6+ hour) journey to the Hub somewhere in Europe or Africa. The team deciphers the message from HYDRA but can't get through to Triskelion or the Hub because the message is jamming communication.
Mid-Morning - Piece makes an attempt to get Rogers to join them. When he refuses, he orders Rogers killed. Rogers escapes and dodges people in the mall.
Mid-Afternoon (EDT) - The Bus lands at the Hub. They try backing things up and wiping their systems. Then they sneak out to try and take down Hand.
Evening - The team fights Hand, figures out Garrett is the Clairvoyant. Events over here basically come to a stop. Rogers finds the bunker with Zola's computer in it. The bunker is destroyed by missile.

Day Three
Early Morning - Rogers teams up with Falcon. They find Sitwell and learn everything. They try to take down the Triskelion, but encounter the Winter Solider. Sitwell is thrown into a mfing truck!
Mid-Morning - They fight the Winter Soldier, they are captured, and Agent Hill helps them escape.
Mid-Afternoon - They meet with Fury, they coordinate their plan, they attack the Helicarrier. Rogers sends out his message to all of SHIELD. Those who have not yet fallen rally to fight HYDRA. People in the Triskelion try to do the same, but seem to get shot the second they try. Rogers takes down the Helicarriers. Hand tells Coulson that Rogers destroyed the Helicarriers and they prepare to transport Garrett. Ward shoots Hand and two other agents, ending the episode.

I have two gaps in Coulson's team. The first is for re-fueling and fits the gap in the movie for Fury's actions. It's just to go from the afternoon to the evening and would only be a couple hours. The second is longer and is basically the gap between them stopping Garrett and them leaving with him prisoner. If I were to give a reason for it, how about everyone getting some sleep while they wait to see what happens in DC?

I'm not entirely sure we should think too deeply about this as we are bound to find flaws, however your theory is a good one although

Spoiler

I don't think the Hydra message would be sent out to kill top operatives when until Cap attacks the triskelion it is still going to Hydra's plan and there was no need to reveal themselves. I still think the message is released after they realise Cap knows everything when he delivers the speech at the Triskelion. How that fits into the whole timeline of the past few episodes and TWS as I say i'm trying not to think too deeply about it.

 

[PunyGod]

...

 

[Dark Raven]

After that Mack truck we should change his name to Agent Splatwell.

How about Agent Farewell?

When he was kicked off the building by Natasha... well, he probably said his name in a Sean Connery accent. Yesh?

 

[Loki882]

Agent S**thispantswell. Because that's what he was probably doing when BW kicked him off of that roof.

 

[terry78]

Old boy just had all kinds of bad luck being tossed into midair in this movie.

 

[marcvader]

The "turn, turn, turn" quote from Garrett in ep 16 was about how he was Ward's SO and Ward is Skye's SO. Everything comes full circle as he says.

I know, I saw the episode as well. It was a joke.

 

[Endeavor]

*blink* Did I miss something? Why would events in Florida matter?

you have some sort of beef with Florida bub?

 

[Mike Murdock]

I'm not entirely sure we should think too deeply about this as we are bound to find flaws, however your theory is a good one although

Spoiler

I don't think the Hydra message would be sent out to kill top operatives when until Cap attacks the triskelion it is still going to Hydra's plan and there was no need to reveal themselves. I still think the message is released after they realise Cap knows everything when he delivers the speech at the Triskelion. How that fits into the whole timeline of the past few episodes and TWS as I say i'm trying not to think too deeply about it.

Well, that's certainly possible, but I think it's more complicated. First, it requires you to completely ignore the day vs. night stuff. I don't have a huge problem with that. Given the time constraints, I don't expect production staff to be perfect here (my goal is usually to focus on the writing). Then it requires Fury's death to be kept secret, which isn't impossible given the organization we're talking about (but it seemed to be well-known at Triskelion). Then it requires the Captain America manhunt to be a secret. Not impossible, true. Then it requires a fake message to be sent out telling them that Fury wants them. That posits intriguing ideas in their own right about what was going to happen when they arrived at Triskelion.

Even then, leaving everything until after Cap's speech would require them to travel very fast speeds to the Hub or to essentially make their entire fight after the Hub because we're talking an hour at most between speech and final destruction of the Helicarriers. Not impossible, the Bus travels fast, I just don't think it's the cleaner explanation.

*blink* Did I miss something? Why would events in Florida matter?

It's entirely possible I'm wrong. My recollection is that Thomas Nash was in Florida. Based on the image of the Bus as seen on the screen at the Hub at the end of the episode (or beginning of the next episode), it does appear they're on the east coast of the United States. But it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

 

[kosh33]

I always thought the Hub was in Europe due to the bus arriving to rescue ward and fitz very fast in the episode in that made-up european country with the Overkill weapon

 

[Mike Murdock]

That's my understanding as well. However, this map intrigues me. I think it's underinclusive, but I wonder if the Hub is near Riyadh.

 

[CapLover]

I just saw TWS again, and the issue of the Clairvoyant seems to be perfectly, crystal clear. For those who want to know:

Spoiler

While being interrogated on the rooftop, after his precipitous departure at the behest of Natasha's boot, Sitwell states very clearly that Zola's algorithm is perfectly capable of analyzing all of the data left by people... be it bank accounts, shopping patterns, SAT scores, whatever. It can use the data to accurately predict future behavior and actions. This is a direct response to Rogers' "Future?" query when Sitwell initially announces that Hydra knows people... past, present and future.

Garrett is part of Hydra, yes. And technically he is the "Clairvoyant" in the sense that he joined Coulson's team, as Phil put it, right when the truth about his resurrection was about to surface in the T.A.H.I.T.I. facility after Skye was shot. But the true "Clairvoyant" is actually the overall Hydra organization and the algorithm that they are using to calculate tactical moves against their opponents. They've lost a little bit of that capability now that their "Shield" access is gone.

Also, Natasha plugged that thumb drive into a pretty sophisticated looking device to activate the Zola AI. Want to bet that Zola is gone forever? They sure made it seem that way in the movie, with Zola AND Pierce claiming that he was "lost" and that "his time had come". I wouldn't bet money on it.

 

[kosh33]

thanks mike.. just what i was looking for.. seems there is a base in bangladesh as well...

yes, the hub could be in the middle east, makes it close enough to europe

 

[cph9fa]

I'm going with the idea that the hub is somewhere in Europe. This is based on the scene at the end of episode 16, when Hand overides the Bus and sets it on a direct course back to the Hub. You can see the map behind her showing the bus traveling in a east-north-east direction across the Atlantic. The middle east just seems too far south for that trajectory. (I found a screenshot of it on this page.)

Aside: Oh, the joys of not having to worry about spherical projections onto a plane, or shortest paths following great circles, or the impossibility of regular hexagonal tessellations.

 

[CapLover]

(I found a screenshot of it on this page.)

Nice catch!

Along with Mike's screen cap depicting the various actions taking down Hydra, we've got some clues.

What would be a bummer is if they're just there as images and not thought out in advance. "LOST" had a lot of stuff on their "Dharma" documentation that turned out, in the end, to be meaningless. I hope this show is aiming for a more solid continuity.

 

[AquamanOS]

I just saw TWS again, and the issue of the Clairvoyant seems to be perfectly, crystal clear. For those who want to know:

Spoiler

While being interrogated on the rooftop, after his precipitous departure at the behest of Natasha's boot, Sitwell states very clearly that Zola's algorithm is perfectly capable of analyzing all of the data left by people... be it bank accounts, shopping patterns, SAT scores, whatever. It can use the data to accurately predict future behavior and actions. This is a direct response to Rogers' "Future?" query when Sitwell initially announces that Hydra knows people... past, present and future.

Garrett is part of Hydra, yes. And technically he is the "Clairvoyant" in the sense that he joined Coulson's team, as Phil put it, right when the truth about his resurrection was about to surface in the T.A.H.I.T.I. facility after Skye was shot. But the true "Clairvoyant" is actually the overall Hydra organization and the algorithm that they are using to calculate tactical moves against their opponents. They've lost a little bit of that capability now that their "Shield" access is gone.

Also, Natasha plugged that thumb drive into a pretty sophisticated looking device to activate the Zola AI. Want to bet that Zola is gone forever? They sure made it seem that way in the movie, with Zola AND Pierce claiming that he was "lost" and that "his time had come". I wouldn't bet money on it.

Again though, they seemed to make it abundantly clear that the Clairvoyant wasn't really reading or predicting anything. Just had high level Shield knowledge that let him know stuff that was supposedly classified and be one step of ahead of the SHIELD teams out to get him, and had access to the very detailed and classified SHIELD personel files that let him know extremely personal details that seemed like he was reading their minds about their pasts.

In fact at no point did the Clairvoyant seemingly predict or read the future about everything, even when they thought he was psychic, barring maybe his ability to seemingly know when they were coming, which was obviously because the Clairvoyant was one of the guys in charge of chasing himself in the first place.

So no, I don't think Zola's program is involved here in any way.

 

[Dark Raven]

Brett Dalton was always rather dull and bland before. This is probably the most he's been talked about, and in a positive way. He should hope to stay a villain, because if he is just a triple agent and it was all a big ruse, he goes back to being the dull SHIELD agent all over again once this operation is over.

 

[marcvader]

He's not making it out of this so we don't have to concern ourselves of him being dull.

 

[AquamanOS]

Yeah if he isn't a triple agent and is really bad he'll be dead by the end of the season. Maybe even sooner.

I just hope they don't turn him in Mr Generic McEvil but at least have him try to justify why he believes in Hydra.

This is giving me bad Andromeda flashbacks.....

 

[Mike Murdock]

I still like my idea of him pretending to be good and nobody's wiser at the end of the season (thus making it an on-going plot for season 2).

 

[SinisterRobot]

These are my crazy thoughts for the day:
1. The scene outside the utility closet where several Hydra soldiers are holding Ward down. He is taken captive and replaced by the Chameleon who shoots the 2 shield agents and Agent Hand on the plane.
2. Agent Hand will be taken to Hydra base and given the GH325 serum. She will be revived, brainwashed and become Spiderwoman.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Those weren't HYDRA soldiers holding Ward down, they were working for Hand, no?

 

[SinisterRobot]

I believe you are right. At that point in the episode, they were still being hunted by Agent Hand's soldiers.