Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD - 3x04 - "Devils You Know" - Discussion Thread

[obsidianrpg]

I'll just left this here to fuel the argument for Andrew:

"Lash embarked on a mission to find all the individuals affected, and judge for himself whether they were worthy to live with their new abilities." - wiki

Daisy already passed Andrew's evaluation.

 

[Just_Human]

It's in the title

"Devils you know "

 

[TheVileOne]

I'll just left this here to fuel the argument for Andrew:

"Lash embarked on a mission to find all the individuals affected, and judge for himself whether they were worthy to live with their new abilities." - wiki

Daisy already passed Andrew's evaluation.

That would explain a couple things I suppose. At least why Strucker left the convenience store so panicked.

 

[mkilban2]

Funny, Lash being someone we've already seen didn't even cross my mind while watching the episode. Not until I read CBM and here that I saw people mentioning it was maybe Andrew. I'm gunna have to rewatch the last 10 mins.

Idk what I think, but I know this ep was great and can't wait to have some Simmons questions answered next week!

 

[TheVileOne]

Maybe it's Triplett .

 

[BarryAllen]

Damn this episode was awesome. I hope this isn't the last we see of Andrew because I enjoyed his character.

I think Lash is either Andrew or Rosalind's right hand man.

 

[Heretic]

Maybe it's Triplett .

or The Clairvoyant.

 

[TheVileOne]

or The Clairvoyant.

Maybe he uploaded his consciousness somewhere before he was vaporized.

 

[redlion2]

I'm leaning more toward the Banks camp.

Whenever the SHIELD and the ATCU arrive to pick up Frye, Banks takes off ahead of everyone else in a hurry and Mack mentions this later on in the transport vehicle.

Lash is standing on the overpass ramp waiting on the transport vehicle. So it's obvious he already knew what route they were taking to the ATCU's "secret" base and he arrived there earlier. AFAIK, Andrew wouldn't have known this.

Lash knew exactly what the transport vehicle looked like. The only ones that knew that were the people that were there when they put Frye in the vehicle. Andrew wasn't there. Banks was there. So, it had to be someone that was there.

Frye told everyone there in the room about his connection to Lash. When Lash ambushes the transport vehicle, he specifically targets Frye in order to silence him. Frye tries to beg Lash and to tell him. "He only told the truth." and he asks Lash to be merciful, so there's definitely a connection between Lash and Frye. The only ones that knew about the connection were the ones in the room. Andrew wasn't in that room.

Now, in my mind I think it's Banks. The only question I have is how much does Roz know? I don't think Andrew is dead and he could very well be an Inhuman too but I don't think he's Lash. Yet, the Banks scenerio is the most logical and easy explanation so I could be wrong. This may all be a red herring.

 

[Uskok]

Well Werner could have run away while his henchmen were getting their asses kicked. The only thing that makes me question the theory is Werner's scared s-less look. It could be that he witnessed an a**kicking from Bobbi. I would be surprised if Andrew was Lash.

Werner was scared because Garner killed all his men in three seconds with some super cool kung fu technique. How? Because Garner is the real Mandarin! t:

BTW, what was Ward planning to do with all those weapons? I think I saw the map of Germany in Ward's base.

 

[Pokkle]

A vey good episode.
Hunter's plot was nice, and Evil Ward was awesome but I dont think Andrew is dead because off-screen + no visible bodie and Strucker was scared.
Nice to see the Ginger Ninja again, and the two inhuman in the beginning had nice powers.
I didn't expect that Lash could turn into human form, nice mystery plot.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I have to say, that last scene was wonderfully ambiguous. My immediate reaction to Werner running was that he had never killed anyone in cold blood before so that's why he was scared. But it's certainly plausible he was running for his life. And the fact that you don't see the face of the person dead raises further questions.

It's the fire more than anything else that seems odd, since that's in line with their original plan was rather than something Andrew would have done.

 

[Demileto]

Yeah, I could see Lash being Agent Banks, that makes some sense. I also agree that Andrew is not dead, there is something more to him.

I think Lash is either Andrew or Rosalind's right hand man.

I'm leaning more toward the Banks camp.

Lash can't be Banks or even Rosalind, they both were in the subway with Coulson and Hunter in the premiere when Lash was attacking the hospital.

It has to be him. I wonder if Ward's phone caught or recorded the transformation?

Not necessary, we have a witness to what really happened in the shop in Alexander.

I have to say, that last scene was wonderfully ambiguous. My immediate reaction to Werner running was that he had never killed anyone in cold blood before so that's why he was scared. But it's certainly plausible he was running for his life. And the fact that you don't see the face of the person dead raises further questions.

It's the fire more than anything else that seems odd, since that's in line with their original plan was rather than something Andrew would have done.

Evidently the show wanted us and the characters to believe Ward killed Andrew. My guess? They wanted to create a situation to force SHIELD to use splinter bombs to deal with Ward, leading to a big reveal that Ward's a not-yet-transformed Inhuman when the bomb hits him... and fails. Oh, and it goes to kill Kebo to prove that it wasn't because it was malfunctioning that Ward didn't die. You could even say that Hunter's missed bullet plays a role in this - if that was a splinter bomb it wouldn't have mattered where it had hit Ward, he'd be dead regardless, bet Hunter's cursing himself for not having used one!

 

[Chemistro]

I'm leaning more toward the Banks camp.

Whenever the SHIELD and the ATCU arrive to pick up Frye, Banks takes off ahead of everyone else in a hurry and Mack mentions this later on in the transport vehicle.

Lash is standing on the overpass ramp waiting on the transport vehicle. So it's obvious he already knew what route they were taking to the ATCU's "secret" base and he arrived there earlier. AFAIK, Andrew wouldn't have known this.

Lash knew exactly what the transport vehicle looked like. The only ones that knew that were the people that were there when they put Frye in the vehicle. Andrew wasn't there. Banks was there. So, it had to be someone that was there.

Frye told everyone there in the room about his connection to Lash. When Lash ambushes the transport vehicle, he specifically targets Frye in order to silence him. Frye tries to beg Lash and to tell him. "He only told the truth." and he asks Lash to be merciful, so there's definitely a connection between Lash and Frye. The only ones that knew about the connection were the ones in the room. Andrew wasn't in that room.

Now, in my mind I think it's Banks. The only question I have is how much does Roz know? I don't think Andrew is dead and he could very well be an Inhuman too but I don't think he's Lash. Yet, the Banks scenerio is the most logical and easy explanation so I could be wrong. This may all be a red herring.

I think Lash is either Andrew or Rosalind's right hand man.

As I mentioned earlier, Frye has a sort of allergic reaction to inhumans, but has no reaction to Banks. He only wanted that they remove Daisy, but couldn't care less about Banks.
Banks might be enhanced or not, but he's not inhuman. On the other hand, DNA analysis confirmed that Lash is inhuman.

 

[Chemistro]

Lash can't be Banks or even Rosalind, they both were in the subway with Coulson and Hunter in the premiere when Lash was attacking the hospital.

Good point.
Furthermore, neither Banks or Rosalind is inhuman. Otherwise, Frye would have reacted as he reacted to Daisy.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I'm currently in the "Andrew is Lash" camp. His actions as Andrew fit very well with Lash's actions and motivations both on the show and the comics.

And I really like the idea of Ward getting hit with a splinter bomb but turning out to be Inhuman. I've been waiting for something like that to happen since the terrigen first started being used as a weapon.

 

[redlion2]

Lash can't be Banks or even Rosalind, they both were in the subway with Coulson and Hunter in the premiere when Lash was attacking the hospital.

Okay, I guess I had forgotten about that. Good point.

 

[Demileto]

Good point.
Furthermore, neither Banks or Rosalind is inhuman. Otherwise, Frye would have reacted as he reacted to Daisy.

I'd say neither of them are TRANSFORMED Inhumans or Frye would have reacted to them as he reacted to Daisy. I don't think we should rule out the possibility that Frye wouldn't be affected by pre-Terrigen Inhumans, as they are, for all intents and purposes, normal humans.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Andrew is a red herring

 

[Silvermoon]

I do believe Andrew is alive (as others have noted... we didn't see what actually happened inside the store, where are the two goons Strucker Jr. was with? Heck... I'm pretty sure I remembered seeing that there was a customer still in the store (in the background) at the check out counter who appeared to be wearing a dark suit of some sort).

However, count me among those that don't think he's Lash. I just have a hard time believing him as someone that would go around murdering people by ripping holes in their chests (he's a doctor... Hippocratic Oath... do no harm and all of that - and ripping holes in people's chests in such a violent way is most certainly doing harm).

I could end up being wrong though.

 

[Chemistro]

With regard to the hypothesis that Andrew is Lash, I don't get the impression that the motivations are a match, or close. I can't picture Andrew killing people just because they're not "worthy" of having powers, or because they got in the way and are not telling him what he wants to know (e.g., the guy he killed in the hospital for not telling him where to find the inhuman; the guy probably had no idea what an inhuman even was).

But that aside, I will give some evidence against it:

a. The couple of inhumans who were killed in this episode got the email a few days before, so Lash knew about them a few days ago. But SHIELD only knew about them through Alicia, and Andrew did not contact Alicia.
It's not decisive, but it counts against the hypothesis.
b. Rosalind said the usual situation was a response to an emergency call when someone just turned - she had never encountered a couple of inhumans who had turned before the outbreak.
However, the ATCU got to some inhumans that SHIELD never knew about (at best, SHIELD got there later, probably also by monitoring the calls).
Yet, the email with the virus had been sent to at least some of those inhumans.
That seems to establish that Lash has a way of finding the names of inhumans independent of SHIELD (and, btw, also independent of the ATCU).

But if Andrew recently transformed (which may well be the case; that would explain why he suddenly left May to deal with some stuff), then it's extremely improbable that he would have such means.

 

[Chemistro]

I'd say neither of them are TRANSFORMED Inhumans or Frye would have reacted to them as he reacted to Daisy. I don't think we should rule out the possibility that Frye wouldn't be affected by pre-Terrigen Inhumans, as they are, for all intents and purposes, normal humans.

Fair enough, maybe he was only affected after they changed.

 

[Demileto]

Just want to point out that "judging the worthy" is Lash's motivation IN THE COMICS, by no means it has to be the same in the show.

 

[Chemistro]

Just want to point out that "judging the worthy" is Lash's motivation IN THE COMICS, by no means it has to be the same in the show.

True, but motivation was offered as part of the evidence in support of the hypothesis that Andrew is Lash earlier in the thread. I just do not think that that motivation fits Andrew's profile.

Still, if that's not Lash's motivation, what might it be?
There are not many plausible options.
For example, we can rule out killing for sport, or just instinctively. He says he is "necessary". But necessary for what?
It's not to protect the public (the couple of inhumans were no threat to anyone; plus, Lash does not seem to care about humans).

Maybe he wants to keep some other groups of inhumans hidden?
But that would not be Andrew's motivation, either.

So, I will add another piece of evidence against the hypothesis that Andrew is Lash: No plausible motivation for Lash seems to fit Andrew's psychological profile. Neither does Lash's utter disregard for human life (e.g., he killed a man in the hospital just for not telling him where to find the inhuman - something that the guy in question almost certainly knew nothing about -, and then even mocked the dead guy saying "never mind").

But if anyone believes otherwise, I will just ask the following question:

Can anyone come up with any motivation that would fit both Andrew's psychological profile and Lash's actions?

 

[Demileto]

Well, we can't expect to get all answers this early in the season, can we? And speaking of that, what's Andrew's psychological profile? All we know about him is that he's a suave psychiatrist who deeply loves May. Do we even know what motivates him to help Coulson and SHIELD with the psychological evaluation of their Inhuman recruits?

ETA: Just noticed your edit. A possible motivation could be May herself. If he was an Inhuman who had never accepted himself for who he really is and May was the one light in his darkness that was taken away from him because of the Bahrain incident then he may feel propense to avoid a repeat of that by massive extermination of all these Nuhumans as he gets another shot at happiness with her.