Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents Of SHIELD - Episode2.19 - The Dirty Half Dozen

[Humbugged]

No, he meant the electrical net that immobilized him.

Which would have been a one charge thing against a boatload of Bobs

 

[Chemistro]

She could have bring an Icer or the thing that capture Vin-Tak.

You mean packing two sniper rifles?
But they were going to battle against Hydra, and carrying two rifles instead of one would significantly burden an agent. She was following May's orders, and was carrying one rifle.
Also, they were not planning to shoot Donnie. In fact, earlier in the episode, Skye expressed concerned that Hydra might want to kill Donnie if they couldn't convince him, and that was cited as one of the reasons to get to him first. They didn't know anything about the brainwashing. When they found out, there was no time to change plans and get another rifle.
At any rate, given that she did not have another rifle, what should she have done then? (i.e., when she was already on the ship, with a sniper rifle, and Donnie was in the process of killing May and Hunter?

 

[Uskok]

I fail to see your point here. All this proves is that while Team Coulson will capture dangerous criminal gifteds alive, NuShield will gun down completely innocent ones.

By Coulson's crew bear in mind ,Not Gonzales .So why is that an example of Caudillo Gonzales behaviour

I'm talking about the first time when Angar was captured, before the original S.H.I.E.L.D. had I.C.E.R.s. You know, before he was locked in the Brynmore Psychiatric Facility? Also, you forget that Coulson and Hunter were captured by Gonzales' agents who didn't have I.C.E.R.s. And guess what, those two are still alive. How could that be, if Gonzales' agents are so Hell-bent on killing anyone who opposes them?

You sound a bit like Magneto or Bolivar Trask from DOFP, and that's not a good thing.

Actually I think I sound like Nick Fury when he talked with Steve Rogers about Project Insight. Prevention is better than cure.

If Shield is at war with anyone, it's Hydra.

Yes, Gonazles' S.H.I.E.L.D. is at war with HYDRA. And now, they've encountered someone who could become an even greater threat. To continue their war on HYDRA quickly, they have to remove that threat.

Wait, are you actually comparing Skye to Hydra? Ever heard of de-escalating a situation? It's a common procedure used by law enforcement procedure. Sometimes people need to be talked down to get a control of the situation. Calderon clearly had the jump on Skye. Calderon could have easily gave her a verbal warning with his gun trained and ordered her to drop the weapon. He clearly lost control of the situation, and as a result, seven other agents including himself were injured. If you ask me, the real danger kiss with bigots like Calderon and people who support his actions like Gonzales.

No, I'm saying she's a potential threat in the eyes of Gonzales' S.H.I.E.L.D., and they are dealing with that threat just like the original S.H.I.E.L.D. would deal with a threat like that.

Well, they'd be more comfortable with locking them up whether they are dangerous or not. Fear and paranoia drives NuShield's decision making process. Gifteds, enhanced are still people and should be afforded the same rights as us.

The last time S.H.I.E.L.D. left a gifted individaul walk around freely, he was recruited by the Centipede Group (HYDRA) and Coulson ordered May to kill him. I'm sure you remember the guy, Chan Ho Yin, a street magician also known as Scorch. And yes, gifted and the enhanced are still people, and they should be afforded the same rights as us. But sometimes, during the war, you simply don't have time to play by the rules.

He might have Jewish ,Tutsi ,Roma or Serb blood in him as well .Some of that might bother some people .But then those people are fascist tossers

Then it's good thing that Gonzales and his agents are not fascists. Today HYDRA is the closest thing to fascism you'll ever see in the MCU and even they don't care about the skin color or nationality.

Who declared war on Skye ?

Up until he sent the heavies against her she was a loyal SHIELD agent who fought against HYDRA as much as he did .And took her lumps like he did

None of Coulson's crew are HYDRA .

But they are still an obstacle that Gonzales' S.H.I.E.L.D. has to deal with. I hate to burst your bubble but S.H.I.E.L.D. is not some kind of a charity organization. S.H.I.E.L.D. is an army, an army formed to protect our planet from all possible threats, earthly and otherworldly. Capturing and killing the enemy is the job of every army. Do you think the Insight Helicarriers were designed to drop flowers on the bad guys? No, those machines were designed to serve as tools of mass execution. Execution without trial. And if HYDRA didn't highjack Project Insight, S.H.I.E.L.D. would have done exactly that. Execute 20 million criminals, terrorists, kidnappers, rapists, drug dealers, etc. And you know what? The world would become a better place. And if you think that Project Insight was just one isolated case, let me remind you what the Black Widow was before she joined S.H.I.E.L.D. An assassin! An assassin so good in the art of killing that Agent Barton decided S.H.I.E.L.D. could use her talents. To kill even more people in the name of S.H.I.E.L.D. And she wasn't the only one. Sebastian Derik (Coulson's colleague from Project T.A.H.I.T.I.) was an expert in killing and torturing. It's time for you to stop pretending that S.H.I.E.L.D. agents are some kind of saints or angels. They're soldiers trained to fight a war every day. War means fighting, and fighting means killing. I'm not saying they should shoot first and ask questions later, but sometimes, during the war, you can't choose between good and bad. You have to choose the lesser of two evils.

And I understand perfectly that Skye didn't chose to become what she is. But that doesn't make her less of a (potential) threat.

So you start of in the first sentence saying who mentioned Concentration camps. And in the next sentence go on to advocate concentrating people who 'you' don't like in mental facilities .You do see the irony there ?That is the definition of a Concentration camp

But you could always create a revisionist history about it later on

The original S.H.I.E.L.D. had several "camps" like that (The Fridge, for example) but you are not complaining about those. The same S.H.I.E.L.D. that Coulson and May served for years, maybe even decades. If anyone is a revisionist here, that's you, buddy. No, I'm wrong, you're not a revisionist. You're a hypocrite. You're making a fuss because Gonzales' S.H.I.E.L.D. acts exactly like the original S.H.I.E.L.D. would act. Give me a break.

 

[BoredGuy]

Actually I think I sound like Nick Fury when he talked with Steve Rogers about Project Insight. Prevention is better than cure.

So I see someone missed the lesson of that movie
lol jk

You're making a fuss because Gonzales' S.H.I.E.L.D. acts exactly like the original S.H.I.E.L.D. would act. Give me a break.

And that right there is my issue with Faux SHIELD
Ya wanna talk about hypocrites? Look no further than Agent James Almos

 

[gerrym51]

i am on record thinking Gonzales is Hydra. however we won't probably know for sure until the last episode-could it be a different shield permanently-don't know-seems cumbersome though

shield versus shield versus hydra versus shield-whew.

 

[WhiteWalker]

Everyone has offered their speculation on this upcoming episode. And all have figured out that there will be some form of uneasy alliance. My thoughts are that the episode title kinda says it all THE DIRTY HALF DOZEN. Anyone who has warched the classic movie THE DIRTY DOZEN will get it. Coulson will be doing the Lee Marvin role and Gonzales will be doing Robert Ryan.

A group of convicts are given the opportunity to get full pardons if they go on a suicide mission. Lee Marvin was the guy that trained them and Robert Ryan was the superior officer that had to go along with it, even though it pissed him off.

Anyway that's sort of what I see happening with this episode.

 

[ajmccarrell]

Everyone has offered their speculation on this upcoming episode. And all have figured out that there will be some form of uneasy alliance. My thoughts are that the episode title kinda says it all THE DIRTY HALF DOZEN. Anyone who has warched the classic movie THE DIRTY DOZEN will get it. Coulson will be doing the Lee Marvin role and Gonzales will be doing Robert Ryan.

A group of convicts are given the opportunity to get full pardons if they go on a suicide mission. Lee Marvin was the guy that trained them and Robert Ryan was the superior officer that had to go along with it, even though it pissed him off.

Anyway that's sort of what I see happening with this episode.

Who DIDN'T cry at the end of that movie??!

 

[Chemistro]

Also, you forget that Coulson and Hunter were captured by Gonzales' agents who didn't have I.C.E.R.s. And guess what, those two are still alive. How could that be, if Gonzales' agents are so Hell-bent on killing anyone who opposes them?

Why do you think they didn't have icers?
Coulson took an icer from one of them after Deathlok attacked them. We don't know whether that was one of Coulson's icers, or an icer pistol that one of Gonzales's agents had.
But that aside, Coulson and Hunter were not killed because they surrendered when they were told to do so. Skye was not told to surrender. Instead, an agent approached from behind, getting ready to shoot her at point blank. Another agent just shot at her without a word.
Gonzales' agents are not hell-bent on killing anyone who opposes them, but they do seem to be hell-bent on killing Skye.

I know exactly what the word if means, but it seems you don't know what kind of situation we're talking about. They're fighting a war, for God's sake. A war against the seemingly unstoppable threat. In every war, if you don't react quickly, you lose.

Skye was at the retreat when they chose to attack her. She was not at war with them. Nor was she a seemingly unstoppable threat. She had already been stopped, in a rather easy way: Coulson ordered her to go to the retreat. She followed her orders.

I don't remember them saying anything about building concentration camps. There are special facilities for dangerous individuals, like the Brynmore Psychiatric Facility, for example. And they are not fascists, they're S.H.I.E.L.D. agents who are doing their job.

Skye was not a threat at the retreat. Besides, where do you think they would put her? In a psychiatric facility, keeping her drugged in order to suppress her power?

But the Kree blood is still inside him. And that's what bothers Gonzales. The same blood is inside Skye too. Try to imagine what would happen if Skye goes crazy, with her powers.

Skye was not mentally affected by the drug. She showed no sign whatsoever of going crazy. And Coulson is better now, and has been for quite some time.

Yes, Gonazles' S.H.I.E.L.D. is at war with HYDRA. And now, they've encountered someone who could become an even greater threat. To continue their war on HYDRA quickly, they have to remove that threat.

Who? Skye? Coulson? They had no good reason to suspect there was a high likelihood they would become a bigger threat than Hydra. If it's what "might" happen - even if there is no good reason to think it likely will -, for that matter, Banner might become a bigger threat. So might Stark if he decided to take over the world. And so on.

No, I'm saying she's a potential threat in the eyes of Gonzales' S.H.I.E.L.D., and they are dealing with that threat just like the original S.H.I.E.L.D. would deal with a threat like that.

I don't think so. The original SHIELD didn't just kill people with powers because they might become a threat.

In fact, even criminal/murderous/otherwise hostile people with powers were not regularly killed (e.g., Donnie Gill, Abomination, Loki when he was first captured, and a few other guys who escaped by secured facilities).

Others were not put into secured facilities, either (e.g., Chan Ho Yin).

They killed some people, sure. But Skye would not have been executed or permanently sedated by the original SHIELD - or else, the original SHIELD would have been on the wrong as well.

The last time S.H.I.E.L.D. left a gifted individaul walk around freely, he was recruited by the Centipede Group (HYDRA) and Coulson ordered May to kill him. I'm sure you remember the guy, Chan Ho Yin, a street magician also known as Scorch.

I don't see why you think that that was the last time. But if you remember that episode, Coulson made it clear that they were monitoring a number of people with powers - monitoring, not killing or imprisoning.
And normally, killing them was off the table. Coulson and his team tried to save Chan Ho Yin when that was still an option, and then (properly) blamed Skye's boyfriend for endangering his life (and Skye, to a certain extent iirc).
Even in the case of Donnie Gill, the original plan was to recruit him - as the old SHIELD had already done -, rather than to kill him.

And yes, gifted and the enhanced are still people, and they should be afforded the same rights as us. But sometimes, during the war, you simply don't have time to play by the rules.

But Skye was not at war with them. She was a loyal agent of SHIELD.

But they are still an obstacle that Gonzales' S.H.I.E.L.D. has to deal with. I hate to burst your bubble but S.H.I.E.L.D. is not some kind of a charity organization. S.H.I.E.L.D. is an army, an army formed to protect our planet from all possible threats, earthly and otherworldly. Capturing and killing the enemy is the job of every army. Do you think the Insight Helicarriers were designed to drop flowers on the bad guys? No, those machines were designed to serve as tools of mass execution. Execution without trial.

They weren't designed to execute Banner, Rogers, or Chan Ho Yin or several others like him. Or Skye.

And I understand perfectly that Skye didn't chose to become what she is. But that doesn't make her less of a (potential) threat.

1. With that criteria, they would go around killing anyone with powers, except perhaps if it's taking orders from them.
2. You might say the same about Banner. Or Rogers. Or Chan Ho Yin before he became an actual threat.

The original S.H.I.E.L.D. had several "camps" like that (The Fridge, for example) but you are not complaining about those.

Yes, but people were not put in them just because they had powers (see above). Only criminals with powers were, as far as we know.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=31090527#post31090527 You're making a fuss because Gonzales' S.H.I.E.L.D. acts exactly like the original S.H.I.E.L.D. would act. Give me a break.

The original SHIELD would try to recruit a person with powers, not to kill her. In the case of Skye, that would not have been necessary, since she was already recruited.
Also, in the case of people with powers who decline recruitment, the original SHIELD would not have killed them or imprisoned them just because of that. That's a difference between SHIELD and HYDRA (that was Hydra's policy: recruit them if possible, else capture them, and if that's not possible, either, then kill them).

 

[WhiteWalker]

Who DIDN'T cry at the end of that movie??!

Charles Bronson...oh CRY...I thought you said DIE!

 

[just one thing]

the presumption is that nushield are fascists and that may be correct or maybe they are acting logically in accordance with information they have, maybe wrong, which we haven't seen yet. Speculation is interesting but a bit to soon to be coming to conclusions.

 

[ajmccarrell]

Charles Bronson...oh CRY...I thought you said DIE!

It was a subtle obscure reference to Sleepless in Seattle. Being from there I have to work it in somehow.....

 

[ctsketch]

Skye was not mentally affected by the drug. She showed no sign whatsoever of going crazy. And Coulson is better now, and has been for quite some time.

But Gonzalez can't be sure of that...and no one can be sure they aren't kree sleepers

 

[LTM438]

My personal crazy theory for this episode, a theory that stands no chance of being correct, is that the "Half Dozen" in the title refers to a certain six member hero team...

Just a crazy thought.

 

[ctsketch]

yes, it is a crazy thought.... and I can say with 98% confidence it is probably wrong

 

[Chemistro]

But Gonzalez can't be sure of that...and no one can be sure they aren't kree sleepers

Actually, Gonzales has the info that Bobbi and Mack have, and it's pretty clear to them - or it should be, given the information available to them - that Skye was not affected by the drug in the way Coulson or any of the other subjects were (she was affected in the sense she was healed, but that's not a problem).

As for being Kree sleepers, Vin-Tak would probably have been able to control them, or else say that some other Kree would be able to. But he didn't do any of that. He just tried to kill her, and didn't even realized Coulson had been given a drug based on Kree blood. So, it seems extremely unlikely that they would be Kree sleepers.

But for that matter, if the issue is what "might" happen, one may say Gonzales can't be sure that, say, the Hulk will not go murderous and kill everyone, or that Stark is not building Ultron in order to take over the world, or that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch (when they show up) aren't sleepers/otherwise hostile due to whatever or whoever gave them powers, and so on.

But in case you don't find that convincing, I'd like to ask the following questions:
1. Do you think it would be acceptable if Gonzales killed Banner, Quicksilver, etc., because of that they might do and/or be?

2. Let's say Gonzales finds out about Afterlife, and its location, and also about the existence and whereabouts of the other inhumans of Gordon's tribe. Do you think it would be acceptable if Gonzales killed all of them just in case they might be Kree sleepers?

3. Gonzales seems to blame Skye for hurting seven agents who attacked her. Do you think blaming his targets when they fight back and hurt his soldiers is okay?

 

[Uskok]

1. Do you think it would be acceptable if Gonzales killed Banner, Quicksilver, etc., because of that they might do and/or be?

2. Let's say Gonzales finds out about Afterlife, and its location, and also about the existence and whereabouts of the other inhumans of Gordon's tribe. Do you think it would be acceptable if Gonzales killed all of them just in case they might be Kree sleepers?

3. Gonzales seems to blame Skye for hurting seven agents who attacked her. Do you think blaming his targets when they fight back and hurt his soldiers is okay?

"We believe that Fury kept a lot of what he did from the World Council, that he had objects and people of terrifying power hidden across the globe. We want to find them, and we want to make sure that they don't destroy the very world that we fight so hard to keep safe."

 

[Lilbaz]

Good way to end this would be for them to face off on the carrier. Coulson wins and captures nushield. Then an explosion rocks the boat. Gonzalez accusing Coulson. Who say's it's not him. Fitz calls Coulson on the tannoy. - Sir we've got a problem.
- What is it Fitz.
= It looks like a swarm of robots.
Everyone looks at each other. Fade to a picture of Ultrons head instead of the SHield logo.

 

[Heretic]

Why would they face off? Even Simmons and May now realize that Coulson was hiding stuff, Nu-SHIELD was right, and they regret that Coulson has the toolbox again.

This is an action show, so we can expect a little bit of Icer fire, but ultimately this is just a speedbumb in the road. When it's all said and done, Mockingbird will be back on Coulson's side...some of the Nu-SHIELD characters like Weaver and Gonzales will fade away or die from the emerging threat, and Coulson will promise to be more transparent and democratic as the team unites against Hydra. In what would be a mind-blowingly stupid move, they may even have Ward back on the team by the time this season is done.

I could be wrong...but I see this SHIELD "war" as time filler while they wait for Age of Ultron when it could have been used as a long-simmering subplot leading into Civil War.

 

[gerrym51]

Why show May's backstory now. So that when Coulson tells her he did not tell her about the Theta Protocol which might involve 'powered children' to protect her from it it makes sense. just speculation

 

[Heretic]

Why show May's backstory now. So that when Coulson tells her he did not tell her about the Theta Protocol which might involve 'powered children' to protect her from it it makes sense. just speculation

Plus, it allows May the wiggle room to have been loyal to Coulson all along, but now see that Nu-SHIELD was right.

The minute they pulled the trigger on this over a year before Civil War, it became clear that this was not about a Civil War within SHIELD and was more about killing time while transitioning to whatever Age of Ultron crossover they have planned.

 

[Chemistro]

"We believe that Fury kept a lot of what he did from the World Council, that he had objects and people of terrifying power hidden across the globe. We want to find them, and we want to make sure that they don't destroy the very world that we fight so hard to keep safe."

That is a statement of what they believe. It doesn't address the moral questions I asked in the post you were replying to.

 

[just one thing]

Why would they face off? Even Simmons and May now realize that Coulson was hiding stuff, Nu-SHIELD was right, and they regret that Coulson has the toolbox again.
.

simmons could be working for coulson on his secret project. We know she made something for deathlock, she stated it was for something else. We have seen her lie before, or she could be telling the truth, common problem with people who lie.

but if she is working on some secret avengers project then her poweraphobia directed at skye and the hulk might be a bit out of place or another lie.

 

[Lilbaz]

Why would they face off? Even Simmons and May now realize that Coulson was hiding stuff, Nu-SHIELD was right, and they regret that Coulson has the toolbox again.

This is an action show, so we can expect a little bit of Icer fire, but ultimately this is just a speedbumb in the road. When it's all said and done, Mockingbird will be back on Coulson's side...some of the Nu-SHIELD characters like Weaver and Gonzales will fade away or die from the emerging threat, and Coulson will promise to be more transparent and democratic as the team unites against Hydra. In what would be a mind-blowingly stupid move, they may even have Ward back on the team by the time this season is done.

I could be wrong...but I see this SHIELD "war" as time filler while they wait for Age of Ultron when it could have been used as a long-simmering subplot leading into Civil War.

Coulson wants to take his base back? That's why he is getting Ward to help him get super powered people.

Are we sure that May has gone over to NuShield. She has known Coulson for 7 years and trusts him. Would she turn on him just because he is buying some bunk beds?

 

[DN91]

Good way to end this would be for them to face off on the carrier. Coulson wins and captures nushield. Then an explosion rocks the boat. Gonzalez accusing Coulson. Who say's it's not him. Fitz calls Coulson on the tannoy. - Sir we've got a problem.
- What is it Fitz.
= It looks like a swarm of robots.
Everyone looks at each other. Fade to a picture of Ultrons head instead of the SHield logo.

I had a similar idea, but instead, the episode ends with Coulson calling in more "back-up". Cue Hawkeye standing and looking at everyone, then the Avengers "A" instead of the SHIELD symbol to end scene.

 

[Chemistro]

Coulson wants to take his base back? That's why he is getting Ward to help him get super powered people.

Isn't he trying to find Ward in order to find the group that took Skye, in order to find her?