BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - Part 275

[Beatnation]

[YT]g8_uAXbC1nw[/YT]

 

[TWayneP]

Rubber bullets my friends!

Even if he does use a machine gun or a sniper rifle or anything like that, I'm sure they will be modified as a stun weapon.

If not then... I'm cool with it, but hot daum!

While my girlfriend doesn't personally care about the actual gun usage in the film, she IS worried about is the imagery of a live action Batman with any sort of gun in todays society of extreme gun violence, with one recent murdering spree happening at the last Batman movie in 2012, is this really a good idea?

What do you guys think?

 

[jfurioso]

One's a sassy one up joke coming from a big city career women to soldiers that she assumes don't respect her nor want her around.
The other(I refuse to watch clips) from a queen in a different context...
I mean why even.

I suppose we could dredge up some deadpool lines and context aside and really get into writer iq of all things. I just don't think that's how it works.

Judging dialogue is one of the things that most people disagree about regarding quality of writing. Referencing your avatar, a lot of people mention the "skating uphill line in blade" as a funny, awesome line, other target it as groan-inducing and an example of how bad Goyer is at dialogue. Funnily, some of the last state bad dialogue is that which real people would not use, yet do not know Goyer lifted the line from a real life conversation of Snipes which he overheard.

A lot of the bad dialogue comments people make generally are the result of parroting buzz words taken from the reviews and comments of those pundits who have a marginal or very low-level mechanistic understanding of storytelling whether in film, comics, or literature. When you ask why the dialogue is bad they cannot explain, beyond saying the tired "does not sound real to me". That is particularly funny in sf or fantasy productions, where idioms must constantly refer to non-ordinary elements and may need to create a sense of futuristic or fantasy otherness. You wonder if someone from the past encountering "he texted her" would scoff at the bad lines you can "write but not say". Samuel Delany and others have written in depth on the handling of such language, using as example the Heinlein line "the door dilated".

Even in normal, everyday situations people around you will not speak the same way. There will be differences in cadence, vocabulary, slang, loquaciousness, mood and intent. People once told me I spoke "like a book" and I said that considering all the time I devoted to reading, I welcomed some of it to come through in how I thought and how I spoke. So a reading of a transcript of my stiff and overtly formalistic speech may conclude I am not a real person.

When judging dialogue what we must evaluate if whether it fits with what we know of the character, and what the circumstances are, and meta-textually, how well does it advance the story or service the scene and character interaction.

How are the infamous lines in MOS coming from Lois and Pete in the bus being a disservice to scenes and plot and character, or fail to fit with the character of a tough and feisty independent reporter and a bully-like kid respectively, in each of their scenes? I honestly have not heard anyone give a credible explanation.

Of course, there is simply dialogue that sounds more polished and refined and artistic to our ears. That is a different aesthetic experience, and it has little relation to how real or naturalistic it is. Sometimes it sounds good precisely by how little it is real. Most people hardly speak with complete sentences or structure their speech to create effects of cadence.

May Goyer fail at creating that kind of dialogue? Sure. His dialogue is serviceable and very plot-centered, and not particularly "literary". But I honestly find that Goyer's flaws fall more on the rigor (or lack thereof) that is applied to his plot and character structures.

People just feel something "off" and cannot really pinpoint what they dislike, so they go with the easy buzzwords they get from online reviewers.

 

[brandeezy89]

Looking at Ben interacting with the fans in China reminds me of RDJ. Better watch out Stark, a new challenger appears

 

[PopeAdrian37th]

Rubber bullets my friends!

Even if he does use a machine gun or a sniper rifle or anything like that, I'm sure they will be modified as a stun weapon.

If not then... I'm cool with it, but hot daum!

While my girlfriend doesn't personally care about the actual gun usage in the film, she IS worried about is the imagery of a live action Batman with any sort of gun in todays society of extreme gun violence, with one recent murdering spree happening at the last Batman movie in 2012, is this really a good idea?

What do you guys think?

Considering there's an amendment for citizens rights to bear arms for their protection...

 

[jfurioso]

I personally would prefer the gun usage to be minimal, or to have a moment of Bats showing his distaste at being forced to resort to such means.

A similar situation was used for dramatic effect by Morrison in FINAL CRISIS.

 

[Corko]

Rubber bullets my friends!

Even if he does use a machine gun or a sniper rifle or anything like that, I'm sure they will be modified as a stun weapon.

If not then... I'm cool with it, but hot daum!

While my girlfriend doesn't personally care about the actual gun usage in the film, she IS worried about is the imagery of a live action Batman with any sort of gun in todays society of extreme gun violence, with one recent murdering spree happening at the last Batman movie in 2012, is this really a good idea?

What do you guys think?

As long as he doesn't go crazy with the gun shooting everyone instead of physically attacking them I wouldn't mind him having one. If Superman is the evil leader in this future it makes sense for batman to arm himself with deadlier weapons. I don't think we've ever had a mass shooting where I'm from so that doesn't worry me

 

[Ahasverus]

Considering there's an amendment for citizens rights to bear arms for their protection...

Except nowadays the only thing they must protect against is some loon with a legally purchased gun.

I've always liked Batman's anti gun stance because it's rational, but I suppose the pacifist Batman is long gone in BvS times.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I've just noticed, this might be Joker card like we seen on variant covers.

Variant cover;

Hah I have that joker card tattooed on my bicep

 

[RadioSha]

Rubber bullets my friends!

Even if he does use a machine gun or a sniper rifle or anything like that, I'm sure they will be modified as a stun weapon.

If not then... I'm cool with it, but hot daum!

While my girlfriend doesn't personally care about the actual gun usage in the film, she IS worried about is the imagery of a live action Batman with any sort of gun in todays society of extreme gun violence, with one recent murdering spree happening at the last Batman movie in 2012, is this really a good idea?

What do you guys think?

I think it could either be rubber bullets (Comedian shooting at the riots) or the soldiers aren't human.

 

[Dninx64]

Rubber bullets my friends!

Even if he does use a machine gun or a sniper rifle or anything like that, I'm sure they will be modified as a stun weapon.

If not then... I'm cool with it, but hot daum!

While my girlfriend doesn't personally care about the actual gun usage in the film, she IS worried about is the imagery of a live action Batman with any sort of gun in todays society of extreme gun violence, with one recent murdering spree happening at the last Batman movie in 2012, is this really a good idea?

What do you guys think?

I guess it depends on the context of the story.
From what I know and seen from this movie. This Bruce is dangerously about to fall into the dark pit that he has tried for 20 years to avoid. As a result of tragedies(Robin, Barbara?) he's brutal and is very cynical and might act in a way that some probably won't like. The battle of metropolis just intensifies his behavior. It will take Superman to find hope again in Bruce.

 

[Dninx64]

Except nowadays the only thing they must protect against is some loon with a legally purchased gun.

I've always liked Batman's anti gun stance because it's rational, but I suppose the pacifist Batman is long gone in BvS times.

He might return to that later in the DCEU

 

[jokesonm3]

https://***********/MessyPandas/status/708827767266254848

 

[Broseph44]

Oh god the whole Batman/Guns/Killing discussion is so much

At this point the horse is dead and has been beaten over thousands of times.

 

[TWayneP]

Oh god the whole Batman/Guns/Killing discussion is so much

At this point the horse is dead and has been beaten over thousands of times.

Well whenever a new piece of concept art pops up with batman holding a giant gun, it makes sense to have the discussion again since it's on peoples minds.

Plus it's just the world we live in today. In the 80's or 90's we wouldn't even be having these kind of discussions.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Joker is still alive and in Arkham after killing Robin and possibly Paralyzing Barbera.
That's enough to tell me that this batman isn't a killer.

 

[Baba3231]

Rubber bullets my friends!

Even if he does use a machine gun or a sniper rifle or anything like that, I'm sure they will be modified as a stun weapon.

If not then... I'm cool with it, but hot daum!

While my girlfriend doesn't personally care about the actual gun usage in the film, she IS worried about is the imagery of a live action Batman with any sort of gun in todays society of extreme gun violence, with one recent murdering spree happening at the last Batman movie in 2012, is this really a good idea?

What do you guys think?

That problem is down to gun laws, not fictional characters using these weapons. But that's a debate for another place.

 

[Broseph44]

The bottom line is, there's many variations of characters we love. Batman has killed before. Some incarnations he does, some he doesn't. That's it haha. It is what it is. Whatever version we get in BvS is what we get. For me I'm fine either way. But that's me. Feel like this whole HE CANT KILL OR USE GUNS stuff is just such a tired/overused thing now.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Well whenever a new piece of concept art pops up with batman holding a giant gun, it makes sense to have the discussion again since it's on peoples minds.

Plus it's just the world we live in today. In the 80's or 90's we wouldn't even be having these kind of discussions.

Eh... There were mass shootings in the 80's and 90's, plus the phenomenon of drive by shootings with casualties that were not the intended targets. Have there been more in recent memory? Yes.

 

[John Locke]

https://***********/MessyPandas/status/708827767266254848

I love Zimmer and Junkie but that makes it look so much more epic.

 

[jonathancrane]

Batman used a gun in the 1930's...and was not averse to killing criminals, either.

Why are we rehashing this discussion again?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Joker is still alive and in Arkham after killing Robin and possibly Paralyzing Barbera.
That's enough to tell me that this batman isn't a killer.

This. The issue in the film for Bruce could well be that some aspect of Knightmare Bats may have seeds in the modern day and unless he experiences something to change him that could be the road he is going down.

Luckily... He'll get by with a little help from his friends, i.e. The Justice League.

 

[Broseph44]

Batman used a gun in the 1930's...and was not averse to killing criminals, either.

Why are we rehashing this discussion again?

Exactly, I agree. But whatever things always get rehashed. Batman and the guns/killing debate. The MOS debates and discussions etc. unfortunately we can't stop it.

 

[Baba3231]

https://***********/MessyPandas/status/708827767266254848

Anyone know the name of the song used here?

 

[jonathancrane]

Well said, Broseph.