All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 1

[OutOfBoose]

His wholesomeness comes more from his reminders to people to watch their language rather than iron clad morals or moral dilemmas.

Maybe you should watch The Winter Soldier and Civil War.

 

[Erzengel]

Glad to be in agreement.

That top comment is hilarious.

More of an editor's/group's poll but:

http://www.slashfilm.com/marvel-cinematic-universe-heroes-ranked/2/

http://theyoungfolks.com/film/76827/marvel-ranking-the-top-ten-characters-in-the-mcu/

http://consequenceofsound.net/2016/05/ranking-every-marvel-cinematic-universe-hero-and-villain/8/

But between these people and the IGN poll as well as probably a lot of people here, I think most of us like the character of Cap and not because he does MMA or because we are fans of Cap/Bucky.

 

[2kt09]

More of an editor's/group's poll but:

http://www.slashfilm.com/marvel-cinematic-universe-heroes-ranked/2/

http://theyoungfolks.com/film/76827/marvel-ranking-the-top-ten-characters-in-the-mcu/

http://consequenceofsound.net/2016/05/ranking-every-marvel-cinematic-universe-hero-and-villain/8/

But between these people and the IGN poll as well as probably a lot of people here, I think most of us like the character of Cap and not because he does MMA or because we are fans of Cap/Bucky.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm Team Cap, but I understand internet polls aren't the most reliable especially when they're being posted around the release of Captain America: Civil War. That means I'm inherently expecting IM and Cap vying for the top spot.

Outside of his solos, he's not the highlight.
I'm hoping he gets more of a presence, but between GOTG, Spider-Man, and Iron Man, what I've gotten suffices.

 

[Micromind]

Maybe you should watch The Winter Soldier and Civil War.

If we are comparing Cavill's Superman with Chris Evan's Captain America, then we have seen only 2 movie with Superman, so to be fair, we need to see only first two movies of Captain America, namely Captain America : The First Avenger and Avengers.

Looking at Captain America's trilogy and two ensemble movies gives him unfair advantage, don't you think ?

Also, I agree with what Miss Lane said, Cavill's Superman is constantly compared with old portrayal of Superman, which proves to be troublesome when a new director wants to have some degree of artistic freedom to show his version of the character.

Captain America does not face such problem, in addition, people have preconceived notions of how Superman should behave, Superman cannot kill, which Captain can, as he is considered to be a Soldier.

We have seen that Captain cripples / kills / shoots many people, fans still consider him to be a wholesome "Boy Scout", Superman does not get such free pass.

Edit: And, there's the alien angle, which Superman has, people don't trust him as he is Kryptonian, Captain America faces no such problem, in addition as Superman possesses super-powers, many people (in DC universe) consider him as a threat, again no such problem for Captain America, so it is relatively easy for Captain America to get the label of "Boy Scout", which is why it's easier for writers to write story for his character, and they (Marvel) have done a good job of it, still, it was not as difficult to write a story for him.

 

[Erzengel]

If we are comparing Cavill's Superman with Chris Evan's Captain America, then we have seen only 2 movie with Superman, so to be fair, we need to see only first two movies of Captain America, namely Captain America : The First Avenger and Avengers.

Looking at Captain America's trilogy and two ensemble movies gives him unfair advantage, don't you think ?

Personally, I think Evans's Cap got way more development and plenty of screen time in TA so I would still say that Evans in TFA and TA was better represented than Cavill in MOS and BvS.

 

[Micromind]

Personally, I think Evans's Cap got way more development and plenty of screen time in TA so I would still say that Evans in TFA and TA was better represented than Cavill in MOS and BvS.

OK, I agreed with that in my second part of post but why ?

Here -

Also, I agree with what Miss Lane said, Cavill's Superman is constantly compared with old portrayal of Superman, which proves to be troublesome when a new director wants to have some degree of artistic freedom to show his version of the character.

Captain America does not face such problem, in addition, people have preconceived notions of how Superman should behave, Superman cannot kill, which Captain can, as he is considered to be a Soldier.

We have seen that Captain cripples / kills / shoots many people, fans still consider him to be a wholesome "Boy Scout", Superman does not get such free pass.

Edit: And, there's the alien angle, which Superman has, people don't trust him as he is Kryptonian, Captain America faces no such problem, in addition as Superman possesses super-powers, many people (in DC universe) consider him as a threat, again no such problem for Captain America, so it is relatively easy for Captain America to get the label of "Boy Scout", which is why it's easier for writers to write story for his character, and they (Marvel) have done a good job of it, still, it was not as difficult to write a story for him.

 

[2kt09]

Edit: And, there's the alien angle, which Superman has, people don't trust him as he is Kryptonian, Captain America faces no such problem, in addition as Superman possesses super-powers, many people (in DC universe) consider him as a threat, again no such problem for Captain America, so it is relatively easy for Captain America to get the label of "Boy Scout", which is why it's easier for writers to write story for his character, and they (Marvel) have done a good job of it, still, it was not as difficult to write a story for him.

Right. Goes back to how people still very much prefer the man becoming a god than the reverse.

 

[writer0327]

If we are comparing Cavill's Superman with Chris Evan's Captain America, then we have seen only 2 movie with Superman, so to be fair, we need to see only first two movies of Captain America, namely Captain America : The First Avenger and Avengers.

Looking at Captain America's trilogy and two ensemble movies gives him unfair advantage, don't you think ?

Also, I agree with what Miss Lane said, Cavill's Superman is constantly compared with old portrayal of Superman, which proves to be troublesome when a new director wants to have some degree of artistic freedom to show his version of the character.

Captain America does not face such problem, in addition, people have preconceived notions of how Superman should behave, Superman cannot kill, which Captain can, as he is considered to be a Soldier.

We have seen that Captain cripples / kills / shoots many people, fans still consider him to be a wholesome "Boy Scout", Superman does not get such free pass.

Edit: And, there's the alien angle, which Superman has, people don't trust him as he is Kryptonian, Captain America faces no such problem, in addition as Superman possesses super-powers, many people (in DC universe) consider him as a threat, again no such problem for Captain America, so it is relatively easy for Captain America to get the label of "Boy Scout", which is why it's easier for writers to write story for his character, and they (Marvel) have done a good job of it, still, it was not as difficult to write a story for him.

It's less about whether Superman kills or doesn't kill and more about Superman acting like he doesn't want to be Superman.

 

[Erzengel]

No you spoke about Cavill's unfair comparison to other portrayals of Superman and that Cap doesn't have those type of comparisons and he is allowed to kill as a soldier. As well as bringing up the alien aspect and that it's easier to write a story for Cap.

I was saying In comparing Evans and Cavill based on a solo movie and their first ensemble movie, it was better done with Cap. While it may not be Cavill's fault necessarily but even with the inclusion of the UC, he was still short changed in terms of screen time.

 

[writer0327]

Right. Goes back to how people still very much prefer the man becoming a god than the reverse.

Maybe it starts then with removing the "God" label from Superman. Superman as God isn't a required characterization. Why can't he just be a guy with extraordinary powers?

 

[Flint Marko]

If audiences truly won't accept a "darker", more serious version of Superman, Snyder and co. haven't afforded us the opportunity to see it demonstrated because what they gave us is so poor from so many different angles. He's uninteresting, cold, wooden, and hardly even speaks. That's not a likable character no matter what name or costume you slap on him.

 

[writer0327]

No you spoke about Cavill's unfair comparison to other portrayals of Superman and that Cap doesn't have those type of comparisons and he is allowed to kill as a soldier. As well as bringing up the alien aspect and that it's easier to write a story for Cap.

I was saying In comparing Evans and Cavill based on a solo movie and their first ensemble movie, it was better done with Cap. While it may not be Cavill's fault necessarily but even with the inclusion of the UC, he was still short changed in terms of screen time.

It's the "Batman" obsession of DC that caused that. It shouldn't have been a BvS film to begin win, should have been a MoS sequel. But because of the divisive reception of MoS, DC decided "Well, we'd throw Batman in the next one to straighten things out...."

The way things are headed, we probably won't get a MoS sequel until at the very earliest, 2020. That's 7 years after the original MoS and in my opinion, that's just flat ridiculous. DC should be ashamed of themselves treating one of their iconic, legendary, and most important characters this way.

 

[2kt09]

Maybe it starts then with removing the "God" label from Superman. Superman as God isn't a required characterization. Why can't he just be a guy with extraordinary powers?

Because he isn't and the powers are too extraordinary.
I've said it before that people seem to want a romantic dramedy with Superman sprinkled in, but most filmmakers feel a stronger urge to deconstruct.

 

[writer0327]

Because he isn't and the powers are too extraordinary.
I've said it before that people seem to want a romantic dramedy with Superman sprinkled in, but most filmmakers feel a stronger urge to deconstruct.

I don't know. Watching S:TAS, I never got the impression that Superman was viewed as a God in that world. But maybe I'm wrong.

I want a Superman film with plenty of action but also some heart and yeah a little romance with Lois wouldn't be that bad.

 

[The Guard]

All this talk about morals and wholesomeness...

Superman sacrificed his life to stop Doomsday. That's about as wholesome and moral as it gets. People didn't suddenly start loving the character's portrayal.

While Marvel has done fairly well with that element so far with Cap, I think it's a lot more simple than that. Captain America's "old fashioned morals" are often played for humor in the MCU. That's not the only reason audiences like the character.

Superman hasn't been embraced as much as Captain America by the general audience for the same reason he hasn't been embraced as much as say, Spider-Man and Iron Man. Because he's not been portrayed as likeably. It has a lot to do with the levels of humor and charisma on display. Even Wolverine, a loner and a gritty character, has often displayed more personality and humor. In many respects, so has Batman throughout his various franchises.

People seem to like historically likeable characters to be portrayed as likeable. Audiences have eaten up Marvel's "likeable" superhero franchise, chock full of humor and charisma.

Other than for some of the purists, Superman's reception has less to do with his morals or his values, but more with his overall attitude toward being a hero.

It has to do with the fact that unlike past versions of the character, this version of the character does not seem as approachable, doesn't have enough levity, seems to have a less than likeable attitude toward his mission and is essentially a deconstruction of the superhero myth instead of a celebration of its high points (though many of these elements are in fact, intact in this franchise, and likely will be in the future).

It's why the first and most vocal complaint about pretty much any portrayal of Superman the last few films has been something along the lines of "He doesn't seem likeable" and "he doesn't seem to want to be Superman".

"He doesn't smile enough" has become a joke around here, but it's not far from the truth. If the writers inject some more humor and change Superman's mindset a bit and allow some more of his charisma and personality to show, I think you'll see a big change in people's attitudes toward the character. It's all about perception.

 

[2kt09]

I don't know. Watching S:TAS, I never got the impression that Superman was viewed as a God in that world. But maybe I'm wrong.

I want a Superman film with plenty of action but also some heart and yeah a little romance with Lois wouldn't be that bad.

The one DCAU show I missed out on. In Smallville and the Legion of Superheroes, the cast of characters were pretty much always more interesting than the plot device trying to hide his ID (just Smallville), learn some lessons here and there, and react to thrilling developments as they unfold.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Speaking of Superman I want to know when MoS2 is going to start development, I'm sure we won't hear anything until after JL but I'm excited to always see Cavill's Superman in action. Wonder if he will ever be given a fortress in the Arctic.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Speaking of Superman I want to know when MoS2 is going to start development, I'm sure we won't hear anything until after JL but I'm excited to always see Cavill's Superman in action. Wonder if he will ever be given a fortress in the Arctic.

Considering that the WB announced movies for Deadshot, Gotham City Sirens, Nightwing, it'll be awhile.

 

[Bagide]

I think Superman in the DCEU is changing for the better. In MoS it was about Clark learning of the world and understanding it. In BvS it's about the world learning about Superman and understanding him. Both films ended on a happier note in that regard. Clark finally helping out without hiding and the world appreciating Superman for who he was. So in JL I think people will get the Superman version they've wanted since MoS. Maybe we'll get the charming, approachable Superman.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Speaking of Superman I want to know when MoS2 is going to start development, I'm sure we won't hear anything until after JL but I'm excited to always see Cavill's Superman in action. Wonder if he will ever be given a fortress in the Arctic.

Considering that the WB announced movies for Deadshot, Gotham City Sirens, Nightwing, it'll be awhile.

 

[Bagide]

Speaking of Superman I want to know when MoS2 is going to start development, I'm sure we won't hear anything until after JL but I'm excited to always see Cavill's Superman in action. Wonder if he will ever be given a fortress in the Arctic.

Amy said a script was being developed

 

[ManWithNoName18]

In light of Logan's success as an R-rated cbm critically and its 85 million dollar opening weekend. I think Fox proved that Deadpool wasn't an anomaly. You can give some characters the Rated-R treatment, and still have them be successful. And Wolverine has only appeared as a character in Pg-13 movies prior to being Rated-R.

Any thoughts on what DC characters would benefit from an R-rating?

Just off the top of my head, Deadshot, SS 2, Constantine/JLD, Lobo, or a Deathstroke movie

 

[2kt09]

Any thoughts on what DC characters would benefit from an R-rating?

Just off the top of my head, Deadshot, SS 2, Constantine/JLD, Lobo, or a Deathstroke movie

That next Skwad should definitely be an R.
GCS probably doesn't have to be.
Constantine/JLD if they can really tap into the horror elements.
Black Adam movie could also be an R, but it's not necessary given all the PG-13 fantasy epics.
The rest of the anti-hero/villain movies would need to make sure the action calls for an R, otherwise the PG-13 should be fine.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Superman can be successful on the big screen again. Audiences have been rejecting the quality not the character.

True. First we had a bleak Superman in Superman Returns. Yes the colorful looking character was there. But there was no joy in him. It was just a dreary slog fest with Superman reduced to a creepy stalker. And it was a flop. So what did WB learn from this. That Superman still looked too colorful? So lets make a Man of Steel movie where Superman is even more bleak and joyless, because being colorful was the only problem with Superman Returns, so lets even make his costume drab. When MoS underperformed, it had to be that Superman was still too cheerful, that's what audiences were rejecting. So let's make Superman even more morose and bleak. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Meanwhile, Captain America and his antiquated morals, can easily give Iron Man a run at #1 in the MCU in terms of popularity.

Captain America is everything Superman in a movie should be. It's no wonder the Marvel movies are more popular. Who wants to see a bleak and depressed Superman?

 

[misslane38]

True. First we had a bleak Superman in Superman Returns. Yes the colorful looking character was there. But there was no joy in him. It was just a dreary slog fest with Superman reduced to a creepy stalker. And it was a flop. So what did WB learn from this. That Superman still looked too colorful? So lets make a Man of Steel movie where Superman is even more bleak and joyless, because being colorful was the only problem with Superman Returns, so lets even make his costume drab. When MoS underperformed, it had to be that Superman was still too cheerful, that's what audiences were rejecting. So let's make Superman even more morose and bleak. Yeah, that's the ticket.

I don't think they make these films with the joy/joylessness as the objective and work backward from there. I think they consider who this character is as a person rather than the icon and how he (someone like him) works within our modern world (as a child and young adult coming of age and finding his place) and what we understand about power and otherness, and his attitude springs organically from that. They also want to use his character to speak to important ideas about religion, power, faith, etc. It's a mythical versus a fairy tale approach, and it's a journey rather than a lightswitch.

Even so, in both movies Clark is not without his moments of joy. It may not be via humor as much as, say, Reeve's Clark/Superman or MCU characters, but in his excitement about his origins and powers (when he learns his Kryptonian name, when he learns to fly), his prank on the bar bully, his easy dynamic with Martha, or when he flirts with Lois all show his lighter side. As he becomes more successful and comfortable in his own skin as well as in his role as Superman (with the world's support and with new allies in the Justice League), some of the constraints on him will naturally be lifted and he is likely to shine more in terms of his charisma with the public or with moments of humor.

Captain America is everything Superman in a movie should be. It's no wonder the Marvel movies are more popular. Who wants to see a bleak and depressed Superman?

That's odd. I can recall brief moments of levity, but for the most part my sense of Captain America has been that he's pretty tense most of the time. I can't recall the last time I really got a charming or fun vibe from a Cap movie as a result of Steve Rogers himself.