All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

[Spider-Fan]

Flashpoint is an awful idea for Flash's first movie. That would have been like just introducing Captain America in The Avengers (no The First Avenger) and then going straight to Civil War. That doesn't work. Flashpoint should be an event ending the trilogy. You need to introduce us to The Flash, his world, his supporting cast, etc. before you can deconstruct it and do alternate takes on them.

 

[2kt09]

You can spend all day spelling out the merits of Flashpoint, you're missing my point. You seem to think that any other solo Flash movie is just going to be a "Spider-man-esque escapade" or comparable to a "standard origin story". Again, that's you being myopic and narrow-minded. You can like the Flashpoint arc all you'd like, but that doesn't mean there aren't other satisfying places for this first outing to go and like I and others have said, Flashpoint makes the most sense after you establish the character and his world.

Get Flashpoint over with. His tragic eternal loop backstory which he discovers as a necessity and the big bad being the evil vers of him get established right off the bat.

If you're doing Flash 2, and it ends with Barry saving his mom and all is happy and good and he looks at the tv and it's WW3 between Wonder Woman and Aquaman, cliffhanger. I think that'd be great.

But that's a lot of storyline to go over so eliminating almost all the other characters and keeping it Atlanteans and Amazons makes the most sense. Even the presence of Superman is not needed outside of showing a scrawny Kal-El and Barry realizing he has to stop Zoom. And introducing a non Bruce Wayne Batman and you only really need to bring back Gal and Jason.

That's considered a lot? Their movies + some others will have already come out by then and instead of doing it as a World War III teaser, it kicks in the middle of the movie. The difference between Flashpoint and the average ensemble team movie is that it's his story and the elseworlds is a backdrop to it.

 

[Erzengel]

For a general audience member? Yeah.

You are introducing new backstories for Batman, Aquaman and Wonder Woman and why they are the way they are.

 

[FunkMiller]

There’s no way in hell Flashpoint is happening. Nor should it. Way too expensive, way too confusing for the GA.

If Hamada’s plan is to simply move on, drop the existing DCEU narrative, and start making actual good movies, then he’s absolutely doing the right thing.

 

[2kt09]

For a general audience member? Yeah.

You are introducing new backstories for Batman, Aquaman and Wonder Woman and why they are the way they are.

Outside of Batman and, even then, there isn't a need to know why every hero is different aside from basic exposition. As long as the audience gets "this is bad" and leads to Flash's understanding that he's responsible. The thrill of the story is seeing him discover all this, establish his powers after several obstacles, and set the timeline straight.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Agreed, after Justice League's reception I can't see Flashpoint happening for a long time, if at all.

 

[Erzengel]

Outside of Batman and, even then, there isn't a need to know why every hero is different aside from basic exposition. As long as the audience gets "this is bad" and leads to Flash's understanding that he's responsible. The thrill of the story is seeing him discover all this, establish his powers after several obstacles, and set the timeline straight.

Well why are Aquaman and WW at war? Oh, they had an affair and she decapitated his wife......

Well why are WW and Aquaman acting so cold, when I just saw them in their movie doing this or this.....

You have to stop thinking like a comic book fan and think how your family member or the person you're dating who has no interest in comic books.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well why are Aquaman and WW at war? Oh, they had an affair and she decapitated his wife......

Well why are WW and Aquaman acting so cold, when I just saw them in their movie doing this or this.....

You have to stop thinking like a comic book fan and think how your family member or the person you're dating who has no interest in comic books.

We also don't have a supporting cast for Flash outside of his dad. Why should I care about his mother or Iris West in alternate timelines, if I don't know who they are at all at this point?

 

[2kt09]

We also don't have a supporting cast for Flash outside of his dad. Why should I care about his mother or Iris West in alternate timelines, if I don't know who they are at all at this point?

His supporting cast isn't even that substantial size-wise. That's why you can cover it in a Flashpoint movie.

Well why are Aquaman and WW at war? Oh, they had an affair and she decapitated his wife......

Well why are WW and Aquaman acting so cold, when I just saw them in their movie doing this or this.....

You have to stop thinking like a comic book fan and think how your family member or the person you're dating who has no interest in comic books.

That's the fun thing about these absurd time travel movies, he's thrown into a totally different experience. These other characters are background to Flash, the every man/the audience surrogate, figuring things out when 30 or so minutes of the movie's run time his life was fine, albeit his mom's death got him so curious.

 

[Flemm]

Flashpoint has a solid emotional core for the lead character, but it stills relies pretty heavily on the alternate universe concept and the intrigue/shock value of seeing more violent, twisted versions of certain established characters.

That should sound familiar, because Batman vs. Superman has similar issues. Drawing on alternate universe material without establishing a primary narrative first. Visions of evil Superman. A more violent Batman, who shares the villain role with Luther for much of the film.

Days of Future Past is the closest thing, in terms of the concept, but it doesn't have all of those problems (we see an apocalyptic future, but not twisted versions of beloved characters). And that film was able to build on established continuity by bringing in successful versions of the X-Men that hadn't been seen onscreen in a while.

Even so, it doesn't seem to have helped audiences connect with the new cast much at all.

 

[Spider-Fan]

His supporting cast isn't even that substantial size-wise. That's why you can cover it in a Flashpoint movie.

Here is the problem: when he is in the new timeline and Iris doesn't know him or whatever, why should I care? I have no inherent loyalty to the character in general at this point. I don't see this working at all. For you to have this type of event movie, it requires backstory and character loyalty. Flash lacks all of that currently. This is not Back to the Future.

 

[2kt09]

Here is the problem: when he is in the new timeline and Iris doesn't know him or whatever, why should I care? I have no inherent loyalty to the character in general at this point. I don't see this working at all. For you to have this type of event movie, it requires backstory and character loyalty. Flash lacks all of that currently. This is not Back to the Future.

Because the love they have for each other was so adorably infectious & emotionally charged in the movie's first half.
My guess, anyways, if the writers are any good.
Obviously, this isn't Back to the Future. That's the inspiration I'd wager they'd promote because marketable buzzwords.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Because the love they have for each other was so adorably infectious & emotionally charged in the movie's first half.
My guess, anyways, if the writers are any good.
Obviously, this isn't Back to the Future. That's the inspiration I'd wager they'd promote because marketable buzzwords.

So you want to have them go half the movie before everything is altered? You know that will lead to rushing everything once he gets to the other timeline, right?

Instead of rushing to the Flashpoint idea, why don't we build to it slowly. Let the audience grow some brand loyalty to the DCEU, and THEN you do this.

 

[2kt09]

So you want to have them go half the movie before everything is altered? You know that will lead to rushing everything once he gets to the other timeline, right?

Instead of rushing to the Flashpoint idea, why don't we build to it slowly. Let the audience grow some brand loyalty to the DCEU, and THEN you do this.

Misspoke, meant a third - a quarter in a 2 hour or less runtime.
It makes his first solo outing exciting because this isn't a tv show.
It establishes all the dynamics and puts his backstory and powers at the forefront in a refreshing manner.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Powers and cool action mean nothing if I don't care about what is going on in the movie, and getting me to care starts with establishing characters we like and have loyalty towards. Not ditching them right after we met them for a dark version of them. It's too quick a turn around and then you'll have to start building a supporting cast a 2nd time in the other timeline. You can do something like that when you're building off an established foundation, not when you're building a new one. This would backfire.

 

[Flint Marko]

Yup.

 

[FunkMiller]

Powers and cool action mean nothing if I don't care about what is going on in the movie, and getting me to care starts with establishing characters we like and have loyalty towards. Not ditching them right after we met them for a dark version of them. It's too quick a turn around and then you'll have to start building a supporting cast a 2nd time in the other timeline. You can do something like that when you're building off an established foundation, not when you're building a new one. This would backfire.

The reason BvS and JL sucked is partially because characters weren’t introduced and established properly. They’d be committing the same error with Flashpoint. It won’t happen.

 

[FunkMiller]

For those following the AT&T/Time Warner merger (and if you’re a DC fan you really should be, because it could have huge ramifications for the future of the company should it fall through) it appears that the whole thing may be inextricably tied up with the ongoing ****show of the Trump presidency:

https://gizmodo.com/at-t-deeply-regrets-paying-the-presidents-lawyer-to-hel-1825958845

Now, this kind of thing coukdcseriousky affect the outcome of the court case currently being heard, where the DoJ are attempting to block the merger. The same DoJ at loggerheads with the orange moron.

Sorry gang, but DC’s future could be deeply affected by the ridiculous corruption and lies of the Trump administration!

 

[Jekecy]

Wasn't a fan of AT&T anyway. I'm hoping another company comes into play and shakes things up at WB.

 

[2kt09]

Powers and cool action mean nothing if I don't care about what is going on in the movie, and getting me to care starts with establishing characters we like and have loyalty towards. Not ditching them right after we met them for a dark version of them. It's too quick a turn around and then you'll have to start building a supporting cast a 2nd time in the other timeline. You can do something like that when you're building off an established foundation, not when you're building a new one. This would backfire.

Relation dynamics + backstory + powers. Powers he has to regain back in order to reclaim those relationships and to realize the importance of his loss. That's doable in a story as basic yet striking as Flashpoint.
The dark vers of characters we've seen would be glorified cameos at best aside from Batman. On top of that, a Flash movie would be hitting theaters 4-5 movies later if even that.

 

[MbJ]

Rumor now is that WB is looking to release a new Superman flick in 2020.

 

[Iceman]

Flashpoint is an awful idea for Flash's first movie. That would have been like just introducing Captain America in The Avengers (no The First Avenger) and then going straight to Civil War. That doesn't work. Flashpoint should be an event ending the trilogy. You need to introduce us to The Flash, his world, his supporting cast, etc. before you can deconstruct it and do alternate takes on them.

Yeah, I'd rather see Flash properly setup first before anything like this.

 

[FunkMiller]

Wasn't a fan of AT&T anyway. I'm hoping another company comes into play and shakes things up at WB.

If the merger falls through, Time Warner will probably need to asset strip to maintain itself. That could very well include DC Entertainment.

 

[MadVillainy]

Glad to see Flashpoint isn't happening. As people pointed out, it's just not a good idea for a first Flash movie

I also still don't get the bit appeal of that storyline

 

[jmc]

If the merger falls through, Time Warner will probably need to asset strip to maintain itself. That could very well include DC Entertainment.

Maybe we can all chip in and purchase it. I call dibs on CEO.