All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

[Iceman]

Then I would take out Suicide Squad 2 and instead I would probably have Flash's film in there instead

Sounds like a winning trade.

 

[Willi Berg]

I would always welcome a new Superman, but from the studio's perspective it might be a dangerous path to diminishing returns. He's had two full-blown reboots within 6 years of one another. That's more than any other superhero would have received in such a short timespan. Regardless of the outcome, make no mistake, hundreds of millions were invested in getting this IP off the ground again. It simply didn't hit, twice at that.

I don't blame execs for being far more cautious this time around.

Yes, I've seen that, it hasn't been fun watching the difficulties with Superman, and I understand the caution. But people seem to expect a lot from Superman. And the blame doesn't look like it is put on the character, but rather what's done with him. And there have been mistakes made with the character. MOS wasn't a failure though, it was a start, and there's no need for a reboot. And I think the studio and filmmakers should be about figuring out what makes the character work. Not just giving up. To do so would be a mistake, IMO.

Spider-Man had 2 full blown reboots within the span of 4 years...and the original cinematic Spidey isn't even twenty years old yet.

Good point. The studio/s saw what they did wrong or what could be improved and rectified their mistakes.

I think it will feel fresh seeing a great Superman set in modern times regardless of how it compares to the Reeve version. We definitely need a top level director who loves the character.

I think Superman fans really see the potential of a Superman in modern times and are excited to see it, and get disappointed when they don't.

 

[Jekecy]

Spider-Man had 2 full blown reboots within the span of 4 years...and the original cinematic Spidey isn't even twenty years old yet.

The 2nd reboot of which was an undoubted success and set the character on the right path. Had HC also failed to meet expectation it would be a fair comparison to Supes' current predicament.

Yes, I've seen that, it hasn't been fun watching the difficulties with Superman, and I understand the caution. But people seem to expect a lot from Superman. And the blame doesn't look like it is put on the character, but rather what's done with him. And there have been mistakes made with the character. MOS wasn't a failure though, it was a start, and there's no need for a reboot. And I think the studio and filmmakers should be about figuring out what makes the character work. Not just giving up. To do so would be a mistake, IMO.

How many chances do you think a studio should take consecutively before they start giving up? One could easily make the argument Fox consistently messed up the execution of the Fantastic Four, but I don't know many fans who want that studio to have another shot at it because the characters have yet to be redeemed.

 

[Willi Berg]

How many chances do you think a studio should take consecutively before they start giving up? One could easily make the argument Fox consistently messed up the execution of the Fantastic Four, but I don't know many fans who want that studio to have another shot at it because the characters have yet to be redeemed.

Well, as I said, MOS wasn't a bomb. And it's not in the F4 category. It launched Henry as Superman and could've been a great start if WB didn't mess up with what they did next with BvS and JL.

I just don't see why Superman comes into such heavy scrutiny when Thor can make a "Dark World" and carry on and Superman can't even get his own sequel and has to be relegated to teamups.

 

[MbJ]

This makes no sense to me. It's like letting a small group of naysayers win. That the naysayers are right, so diminish Superman, relegate him to a supporting role, and take away his solo movies.

I feel like this is people overthinking things and saying the past Superman movies (Returns and Man of Steel) received mixed reception due to the character being a problem and not the much simpler explanation that a lot of people might have not thought either was a particularly good movie.

 

[Jekecy]

Well, as I said, MOS wasn't a bomb. And it's not in the F4 category. It launched Henry as Superman and could've been a great start if WB didn't mess up with what they did next with BvS and JL.

I don't know if Henry was really "launched", up to this point he's sort of just known for being the current guy playing Superman. Compare that to someone like Gal, who overnight became a household name and current it girl of Hollywood. That's what a truly successful film does for a relative unknown.

Honestly I feel like Mission Impossible is going to do more for his career than Supes has in the last 6 years.

I just don't see why Superman comes into such heavy scrutiny when Thor can make a "Dark World" and carry on and Superman can't even get his own sequel and has to be relegated to teamups.

A lot easier to forgive subpar films if audiences are invested in the actor and character. That's what Hemsworth/Thor have that Cavill/Supes still doesn't.

To Henry's credit, ever since he jumped into social media he's started creating his own brand and become more of an actual persona to audiences. But he'll still have to do more to sustain his longevity, namely get a film out which people unanimously enjoy.

 

[Willi Berg]

I feel like this is people overthinking things and saying the past Superman movies (Returns and Man of Steel) received mixed reception due to the character being a problem and not the much simpler explanation that a lot of people might have not thought either was a particularly good movie.

Thank you. I totally agree.

I don't know if Henry was really "launched", up to this point he's sort of just known for being the current guy playing Superman. Compare that to someone like Gal, who overnight became a household name and current it girl of Hollywood. That's what a truly successful film does for a relative unknown.

Honestly I feel like Mission Impossible is going to do more for his career than Supes has in the last 6 years.


A lot easier to forgive subpar films if audiences are invested in the actor and character. That's what Hemsworth/Thor have that Cavill/Supes still doesn't.

To Henry's credit, ever since he jumped into social media he's started creating his own brand and become more of an actual persona to audiences. But he'll still have to do more to sustain his longevity, namely get a film out which people unanimously enjoy.

MOS2

I know what you're saying, Superman wasn't embraced the way WW was. And that is a bummer for Superman fans. That's why they (we) want to see him in a truly great Superman film that can be everything Superman could be in a modern take. Fans don't want to give up on Superman in the movies.

Yes, the studio might be reticent, yes, doomsayers may make some valid points (or not), but fans just don't want to give up hope.

 

[The Batman]

The 2nd reboot of which was an undoubted success and set the character on the right path. Had HC also failed to meet expectation it would be a fair comparison to Supes' current predicament.

You said that Superman having two full blown reboots within a 6 year span is more than what any other character would've received. Spider-Man got that, and in even less time. HC being a success or not does not change that fact that like Superman, Spider-Man got two full blown reboots in a short amount of time.

 

[Jekecy]

You said that Superman having two full blown reboots within a 6 year span is more than what any other character would've received. Spider-Man got that, and in even less time. HC being a success or not does not change that fact that like Superman, Spider-Man got two full blown reboots in a short amount of time.

Well then allow me to expound; I was referring to the two (wasted) chances in relation to the possibility of opening up a third.

The difference in Homecoming's success is there is no lingering question of how to proceed next. The chance was used and proved fruitful, rather than wasted and resulting in another setback.

 

[The Batman]

Well then allow me to expound; I was referring to the two (wasted) chances in relation to the possibility of opening up a third.

The difference in Homecoming's success is there is no follow-up inquiry of how to proceed next. The chance was used and proved fruitful, rather than wasted and resulting in another setback.

I see what you're saying.

 

[Willi Berg]

All we can really do now is see what happens in regards to MOS2.

 

[Erzengel]

Earliest will be 2020. 3 years after JL and 7 years after MOS.

 

[Tg11]

Or another way to build the future of the DCEU right now:

Aquaman- December 21, 2018
Shazam- April 5, 2019
Wonder Woman 2- November 1, 2019
The Batman- February 14, 2020 (Valentine's Day)
Green Lantern Corps- June 5, 2020
Flashpoint- August 7, 2020

I would delay Suicide Squad 2 and put that on the backburner but MOS2 would basically for me anyway would be a part of the 2021 slate for DC; a full 8 years after MOS

I would reference past movies in the actual movies like past events such as what happened in JL and so on and so forth but nothing more than references; no cameos to start off

Mid and post credit scenes for DC from now on is something I would incorporate in films going forward basically to build hype for the future of the DCEU going forward; build up towards an eventual Justice League sequel but a slow gradual build

Going after great directors too is on the agenda too if it were me

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Or another way to build the future of the DCEU right now:

Aquaman- December 21, 2018
Shazam- April 5, 2019
Wonder Woman 2- November 1, 2019
The Batman- February 14, 2020 (Valentine's Day)
Green Lantern Corps- June 5, 2020
Flashpoint- August 7, 2020

I would delay Suicide Squad 2 and put that on the backburner but MOS2 would basically for me anyway would be a part of the 2021 slate for DC; a full 8 years after MOS

I would reference past movies in the actual movies like past events such as what happened in JL and so on and so forth but nothing more than references; no cameos to start off

Mid and post credit scenes for DC from now on is something I would incorporate in films going forward basically to build hype for the future of the DCEU going forward; build up towards an eventual Justice League sequel but a slow gradual build

Going after great directors too is on the agenda too if it were me

Seems to be kinda expected now with superhero movies (I'm not complaining - I actually liked the two in Justice League!).

 

[samsnee]

I wonder if you’re in charge of WB right now do you just realize that you’re never going to get these insane numbers for IW for a DC film. At least not with the current film slate. That’s not to say they aren’t going to keep trying because all it takes is one hit to wash away a string of failures, but at this point I don’t know how they keep up with Marvel.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I wonder if you’re in charge of WB right now do you just realize that you’re never going to get these insane numbers for IW for a DC film. At least not with the current film slate. That’s not to say they aren’t going to keep trying because all it takes is one hit to wash away a string of failures, but at this point I don’t know how they keep up with Marvel.

I think trying to 'keep up with Marvel' has largely been the root cause of most of the DCEU's problems, tbh.

 

[samsnee]

I think trying to 'keep up with Marvel' has largely been the root cause of most of the DCEU's problems, tbh.

Agreed. They should be going the opposite and actually commit to it. Smaller budgets so they are more profitable when they don’t make $700 million at the box office. Get directors who normally wouldn’t do this kind of movie but would if promised creative control and not forced into a shared universe concept.

Those movies can exist and I do think they’re are audiences who probably wouldn’t mind not feeling they have to watch 18 movies beforehand to understand the new one.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Agreed. They should be going the opposite and actually commit to it. Smaller budgets so they are more profitable when they don’t make $700 million at the box office. Get directors who normally wouldn’t do this kind of movie but would if promised creative control and not forced into a shared universe concept.

Those movies can exist and I do think they’re are audiences who probably wouldn’t mind not feeling they have to watch 18 movies beforehand to understand the new one.

I completely agree

 

[jmc]

I think trying to 'keep up with Marvel' has largely been the root cause of most of the DCEU's problems, tbh.

It's not just them. Studios have Marvel envy because they managed to serialise movies in a way that's not been done before. And that's because they bet the farm on the concept working. Many people didn't think it would work, myself included.

 

[Flemm]

Agreed. They should be going the opposite and actually commit to it. Smaller budgets so they are more profitable when they don’t make $700 million at the box office. Get directors who normally wouldn’t do this kind of movie but would if promised creative control and not forced into a shared universe concept.

Those movies can exist and I do think they’re are audiences who probably wouldn’t mind not feeling they have to watch 18 movies beforehand to understand the new one.

I think that's the right approach also. Focus on getting individual movies and characters right.

Forget about tie-in and mash-up material for a while.

That only worked for Marvel studios because they were fully invested in it from the start. Trying to imitate that, and doing so in an inept, rushed, or half-hearted way, won't produce anything positive.

But, if they can get some individual characters right, and produce some quality films over time, then they can re-assess.

My concern would mostly just be that they won't have the patience for that.

 

[MbJ]

I'm still floored that after Black Panther we've heard nothing about the Green Lantern reboot.

 

[jmc]

Why would would hear anything about it? We've got a bunch of other films announced that we're still not sure are even getting made.

 

[Flemm]

Well, as I said, MOS wasn't a bomb. And it's not in the F4 category. It launched Henry as Superman and could've been a great start if WB didn't mess up with what they did next with BvS and JL.

The timing for Man of Steel was odd.

It came just after the Nolan Batman films and was more or less contemporaneous with the first Avengers film.

So it got caught between two very influential pieces of superhero film-making.

Man of Steel probably tried too hard to feel like a Nolan film, and then they immediately tried to segue into the team-up material.

The results were very odd, to say the least.

I've never really been a big fan of Superman in particular, but I wasn't a Wonder Woman fan either. After seeing the Wonder Woman movie, I was fan immediately. I hadn't even been all that excited about seeing it, tbh.

So it just takes the right film or the right adaptation, I guess.

 

[brandeezy89]

The timing for Man of Steel was odd.

It came just after the Nolan Batman films and was more or less contemporaneous with the first Avengers film.

So it got caught between two very influential pieces of superhero film-making.

Man of Steel probably tried too hard to feel like a Nolan film, and then they immediately tried to segue into the team-up material.

The results were very odd, to say the least.

I've never really been a big fan of Superman in particular, but I wasn't a Wonder Woman fan either. After seeing the Wonder Woman movie, I was fan immediately. I hadn't even been all that excited about seeing it, tbh.

So it just takes the right film or the right adaptation, I guess.

I believe the legal battle over the Superman rights between the Siegel family had something to do with it.

 

[FunkMiller]

Agreed. They should be going the opposite and actually commit to it. Smaller budgets so they are more profitable when they don’t make $700 million at the box office. Get directors who normally wouldn’t do this kind of movie but would if promised creative control and not forced into a shared universe concept.

Those movies can exist and I do think they’re are audiences who probably wouldn’t mind not feeling they have to watch 18 movies beforehand to understand the new one.

As I’ve said quite a lot before, DC should just cede the cinema screens to Marvel (because they’ve comprehensively lost), and concentrate their efforts on owning the home TV streaming and broadcast space. It’s where the future is after all. Create a living, breathing multiverse on TV, and only go to the movies with the big team ups.

...but that takes vision... and WB have none.

Watch Disney and Marvel do it first again, instead.