All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

[samsnee]

I dont agree with that. It’s still a business ultimately and movies are still the platform that help sell the other platforms better. They just need to stop trying to outdo and just do.

 

[Erzengel]

Agreed. They should be going the opposite and actually commit to it. Smaller budgets so they are more profitable when they don’t make $700 million at the box office. Get directors who normally wouldn’t do this kind of movie but would if promised creative control and not forced into a shared universe concept.

Those movies can exist and I do think they’re are audiences who probably wouldn’t mind not feeling they have to watch 18 movies beforehand to understand the new one.

Then forget any future type JL movies.

And movies that require too much special effects and more grounded. MOS, BvS and were all $200+ budgets.

WW, Aquaman & SS were $175M and less.

 

[Willi Berg]

Then forget any future type JL movies.

And movies that require too much special effects and more grounded. MOS, BvS and were all $200+ budgets.

WW, Aquaman & SS were $175M and less.

Superman doesn't need to be so overblown, effects-wise. WW used action more sparingly and was more effective.

But I don't expect superhero movies to become grounded indies though. It's about striking the right balance.

 

[Erzengel]

Superman vs someone like Brainiac might. Maybe not against Parasite.

 

[unholyrevenger]

But I don't expect superhero movies to become grounded indies though. It's about striking the right balance.

Nah. It's about having a miserly executive (like Perlmutter) standing over the writers and directors lording over them telling them" You have a 200 mil, not a penny more. Make it work."

 

[Willi Berg]

Nah. It's about having a miserly executive (like Perlmutter) standing over the writers and directors lording over them telling them" You have a 200 mil, not a penny more. Make it work."

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Nah. It's about having a miserly executive (like Perlmutter) standing over the writers and directors lording over them telling them" You have a 200 mil, not a penny more. Make it work."

Or having a guy like Kevin feige who has been in the business for over 20 years and truly loves and respects the source material and its fan base but also knowing how to run the business effectively. If anything perlmutter was going to be the downfall of the mcu.

 

[samsnee]

Deadpool figured it out for both movies.

 

[FunkMiller]

I dont agree with that. It’s still a business ultimately and movies are still the platform that help sell the other platforms better. They just need to stop trying to outdo and just do.

This is not going to be the case for much longer.

 

[unholyrevenger]

Or having a guy like Kevin feige who has been in the business for over 20 years and truly loves and respects the source material and its fan base but also knowing how to run the business effectively. If anything perlmutter was going to be the downfall of the mcu.

The MCU doesn't Survive phase one without Perlmutter slapping hands away from the cookie jar. Feige took those miserly lessons to heart. He splurges from time to time, but Feige's the guy slapping hands away from the cookie Jar now.

 

[chamber-music]

Agreed. They should be going the opposite and actually commit to it. Smaller budgets so they are more profitable when they don’t make $700 million at the box office. Get directors who normally wouldn’t do this kind of movie but would if promised creative control and not forced into a shared universe concept.

Those movies can exist and I do think they’re are audiences who probably wouldn’t mind not feeling they have to watch 18 movies beforehand to understand the new one.

Giving superhero franchises over to left field choice filmmakers can work sometimes but it isn't always going to be successful. Unless you have a good track record or industry wide respect it is highly unlikely any of the major movie studios are going to hand you a $100 million dollar plus movie without any studio input. Even Spielberg and Scorsese have talked about having to answer to studio demands in recent years.

Netflix is one of the few places directors can get complete creative control.

Certain characters can do lower budget Deadpool or Logan type movies but with Deadpool and Logan you had a filmmaker and writers that wanted to be more faithful to the source material which won a lot of fan support and generated buzz among general audiences. Some of these left field choice directors with create control would probably make superhero movies far removed from the source material like Darren Aronofsky and his Batman Year One.

 

[samsnee]

It can’t be an odd choice just to be an odd choice. Like Martin Scorsese is a great director. But is really the right choice for a Joker movie, even if it’s just producing? Am I paying to see a Martin Scorsese movie or a Joker movie?

Snyder wasn’t a bad choice per se because he was visually a great director. But there’s no substance in his movies beneath the surface.

 

[misslane38]

As I’ve said quite a lot before, DC should just cede the cinema screens to Marvel (because they’ve comprehensively lost), and concentrate their efforts on owning the home TV streaming and broadcast space. It’s where the future is after all. Create a living, breathing multiverse on TV, and only go to the movies with the big team ups.

...but that takes vision... and WB have none.

Watch Disney and Marvel do it first again, instead.

DC has been making solo superhero franchises (trilogies, etc.) since the Donner films. If they start focusing back on that over a shared universe, they might carve out niche that works for them. Moreover, they've had some films that have been disappointments, but one was a box office smash (SS), the other was a critical and box office success (WW). They've simply not made a whole lot of movies just yet, and the next group seem promising. I don't think they have to give up so soon.

Besides, why does it have to be one or the other? Both companies can try things out in both mediums. DC already has practically a whole network (CW) devoted to its superhero programming with a streaming service (DCUniverse) in the works. Maybe your way isn't the only way.

 

[misslane38]

Snyder wasn’t a bad choice per se because he was visually a great director. But there’s no substance in his movies beneath the surface.

This simply isn't true.

 

[Kane52630]

It's very true.

 

[misslane38]

It's very true.

No, it's not. Snyder's movies do have substance. I get that some don't like what that substance is, but it is undeniably there.

 

[Johnglen]

Most dc heroes, not called Batman, need big budget movies , even bigger than marvel’s. Superman, aquaman, Wonder Woman, green lantern e.t.c can’t be done justice with average budgets.

 

[Flemm]

Superman, aquaman, Wonder Woman, green lantern e.t.c can’t be done justice with average budgets.

Wonder Woman was apparently made on a 150M budget, which is in line with the early Marvel Studios phase 1 films, like Thor and Iron Man.

Prior to the movie's release, there was actually talk of the budget being only around 120M.

We have to be a little skeptical with regard to these numbers, because there's no way to be sure what the real number is, but basically the Wonder Woman movie most likely cost about the same as the early Marvel movies, which is one reason why it made so much money.

The Guardians of the Galaxy movies have budgets reported to be somewhat higher, but nothing crazy. The numbers are listed as 170M and 200M respectively. (The first one might have also been closer to 200M, according to some discussion surrounding that figure.)

Why did Man of Steel apparently cost 225M?

There definitely appears to be something wrong with how they were handling costs, which is one reason why Man of Steel was not perceived to really be a success financially, even though the movie did not flop.

I don't think that it's anything inherent to the characters.

 

[Black Narcissus]

As I’ve said quite a lot before, DC should just cede the cinema screens to Marvel (because they’ve comprehensively lost), and concentrate their efforts on owning the home TV streaming and broadcast space. It’s where the future is after all. Create a living, breathing multiverse on TV, and only go to the movies with the big team ups.

...but that takes vision... and WB have none.

Watch Disney and Marvel do it first again, instead.

This is one of the worst takes on here. lol

Aquaman
Shazam
WW sequel

I'm good.

 

[chamber-music]

Characters like Nightwing, Batgirl and Deathstroke could easily have good movies with a sub $100 million budget.

Those characters are rumored to have movies in development.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Yeah and if the talent is right you can have huge returns on those characters.

 

[MbJ]

Most dc heroes, not called Batman, need big budget movies , even bigger than marvel’s. Superman, aquaman, Wonder Woman, green lantern e.t.c can’t be done justice with average budgets.

The only one who arguably needs a higher budget is Green Lantern. If Thor: Ragnarok could be made for 180 million there's no reason something like Superman or Aquaman needs to be more expensive than that.

The fact that WB threw away 250 million on Batman v. Superman and 300 on Justice League still astounds me. That's more expensive than Avengers and BVS barely made over half what that made, while Justice League made even less.

Snyder wasn’t a bad choice per se because he was visually a great director. But there’s no substance in his movies beneath the surface.

I'd say it's less that and more that he's not particularly good with developing characters. That's been a consistent criticism of his DC movies. One of the major reasons the MCU has been so successful is people feel invested in these characters and want to root for them, going all the way back to when the planet first fell head over heels for Tony Stark in 2008. It's telling that the death of flippin' Yondu elicited more of an emotional reaction than Superman.

 

[Flemm]

The fact that WB threw away 250 million on Batman v. Superman and 300 on Justice League still astounds me.

Especially Justice League.

Batman versus Superman at least sort of made sense. A clash of two icons. The hype was there. The film still managed to make a relatively modest, but substantial amount of money.

Watching Justice League unfold was like dealing with a friend who is engaging in stubborn, short-sighted, self-destructive behavior.

You want to be able to step in and make it stop, but it's too late, and he won't listen anyway.

 

[misslane38]

I'd say it's less that and more that he's not particularly good with developing characters. That's been a consistent criticism of his DC movies. One of the major reasons the MCU has been so successful is people feel invested in these characters and want to root for them, going all the way back to when the planet first fell head over heels for Tony Stark in 2008. It's telling that the death of flippin' Yondu elicited more of an emotional reaction than Superman.

Don't use the word "development" when what you're really talking about is characterization. One is about creating fleshed out and multi-dimensional characters, which Snyder's are, the other is about likability (I personally felt Superman was likable, though).

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Multidimensional characters who are barely likeable lol