All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 93

[FlawlessVictory]

It is a shame because news of a Superman and Batman film should be having just about everyone so amped up. That's not the case here. And I'm in the camp that's not overly joyed with the idea either. It just proves the timing isn't right otherwise most people would be on board.

 

[roach]

1: Wasn't Luthor confirmed at one point? I remember reading that but I admit I might be misremembering.

2: The logo of the film is a fused Batman/Superman logo. I think it's safe to say that his role will be fairly large.

3: Even if his role is small, there's still a huge chance that having another superhero running around during Superman's first confrontation with Luthor will **** everything up.

1) While talk made mention of Luthor for an MOS sequel who knows what remains of the initial idea for a sequel. However WB didnt confirm him for this movie.

2) I agree that the logo implies Batman is heavily in this movie.

3) Again the villains havent been announced and they may hold onto Luthor until we get a proper MOS sequel.

 

[The Question]

Honestly, what might save the film for me is if the main antagonistic force is Batman himself, and Luthor is manipulating the two of them into fighting each other and doesn't appear much in the film and it's more that his presence is felt and they save a Luthor-As-Villain-Proper story for another, Batman-free film.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

It is a shame because news of a Superman and Batman film should be having just about everyone so amped up. That's not the case here. And I'm in the camp that's not overly joyed with the idea either. It just proves the timing isn't right otherwise most people would be on board.

The timing is 100 percent what's wrong with it.
I'd actually be pulling for a Zack Snyder World's Finest-AFTER a proper sequel in the MOS universe has occurred. At best, it would be a minor part to broaden the DCu and demonstrate Superman's effect on more paranoid individuals-including Batman. At worst, it would displace MOS2 and make it "the Batman show" for a significant part of the movie, not building on the loose ends of the first film (and there are quite a few unfortunately) or cause a film that's even MORE uneven than MOS due to the amount of character arcs that would have to be juggled.

 

[PacificBoy]

Here's a AMC Movie Talk video first shared by ThePowerCosmic in the Misc Comic Film forum. Some interesting insight.

[YT]z1SEmNPuV4s[/YT]

 

[Herolee10]

It is a shame because news of a Superman and Batman film should be having just about everyone so amped up. That's not the case here. And I'm in the camp that's not overly joyed with the idea either. It just proves the timing isn't right otherwise most people would be on board.

Yep. The timing is definitely one of the biggest reasons why not everyone is exactly thrilled about this. Even though MOS has its fair share of critics, it also has its fair share of supporters, and they (along with I) were really looking forward towards seeing the next chapter with Superman.

Now, before people say, “Well, what if Batman is just integrated to make the story work?”, I’ll just add by saying regardless of how Batman is utilized, he’s still there and that’s always going to have an effect on things in the film.

I can name so many reasons as to why this SHOULD have been a standalone sequel, with one of the major reasons being that it’s not fair that Superman can’t finally tackle a modern day Lex on his own like how Batman was allowed to in Nolan’s version.

It sucks that Warner Bros. felt the need to do this to Superman’s franchise simply because they couldn’t wait any longer to get the ball rolling with their own cinematic universe.

 

[Herolee10]

The timing is 100 percent what's wrong with it.
I'd actually be pulling for a Zack Snyder World's Finest-AFTER a proper sequel in the MOS universe has occurred. At best, it would be a minor part to broaden the DCu and demonstrate Superman's effect on more paranoid individuals-including Batman. At worst, it would displace MOS2 and make it "the Batman show" for a significant part of the movie, not building on the loose ends of the first film (and there are quite a few unfortunately) or cause a film that's even MORE uneven than MOS due to the amount of character arcs that would have to be juggled.

At the end of the day, it's really the Superman fans and Superman himself that were wronged here.

 

[roach]

Well I got to admit; it is somewhat hard/difficult at times to see anything really positive to think about regarding this film. I’m not even going to bother labeling it as MOS 2 or even so much as a sequel other than the fact that it takes place after the events of MOS because it’s more of a standalone spin off than anything else at the moment for me. It’s the Tokyo Drift of the franchise.

I agree. I feel there may be a MOS2 sometime after this movie.
All we know is that Batman and Superman will be in a movie together. Complaining about the amount of screen time Batman will get or the lack of emotions story or....
We don't know enough of nothing to accurately complain. People having concerns about Snyder and Goyer I understand. Anything other than that is conjecture and smoke and mirrors.
I will be how I always am...optimistic until something I see or hear jumps out at me.

 

[Superchan]

Well I got to admit; it is somewhat hard/difficult at times to see anything really positive to think about regarding this film. I’m not even going to bother labeling it as MOS 2 or even so much as a sequel other than the fact that it takes place after the events of MOS because it’s more of a standalone spin off than anything else at the moment for me. It’s the Tokyo Drift of the franchise.

I think Goyer made it clear with his statement that this isn't MOS2 but rather a WF film that addresses some of the issues from MOS.
I think of this as a "buddy cop" film with superman and batman, it counts as a superman film and a batman film.
Goyer and snyder writing this on their own does worry me quite a bit because ultimately I don't think either of them will approach this with the intention of making either character look bad (since they're both invested in both characters) but if film is badly constructed then it won't matter whether batman or superman up one another (or come off as equals) because the film will be forgettable and neither characters' victory will be remembered.

 

[Herolee10]

I think Goyer made it clear with his statement that this isn't MOS2 but rather a WF film that addresses some of the issues from MOS.
I think of this as a "buddy cop" film with superman and batman, it counts as a superman film and a batman film.
Goyer and snyder writing this on their own does worry me quite a bit because ultimately I don't think either of them will approach this with the intention of making either character look bad (since they're both invested in both characters) but if film is badly constructed then it won't matter whether batman or superman up one another (or come off as equals) because the film will be forgettable and neither characters' victory will be remembered.

Agreed; not to mention that I doubt we’ll get the time needed to focus in on how Clark’s superman gets firmly established within this DC world. Like others have said, Clark just became Superman, or rather, decided to become Superman from his perspective, but he’s not viewed as superman by many within the world of the DC universe.

And now, due to this upcoming film, we won’t get a film dedicated on how he came to form all of those things.

IF MOS had at least left Superman had a better place in his career at the end of MOS, I wouldn’t be so upset, but it didn’t.

I can’t even think about MOS anymore without feeling upset about it because I know that all of its potential and promise that it showed in a better future was pretty much thrown out the window this film’s announcement.

 

[roach]

It's like its our birthday and WB brought us a present with a box and on the box is the Batman/Superman symbol....but we can't open it until it's our birthday
We don't know what's inside but all we do is complain about this thing that we know nothing about...haven't seen it....haven't heard plot point one....but we are so sure it's gonna fail

 

[The Question]

It's like its our birthday and WB brought us a present with a box and on the box is the Batman/Superman symbol....but we can't open it until it's our birthday
We don't know what's inside but all we do is complain about this thing that we know nothing about...haven't seen it....haven't heard plot point one....but we are so sure it's gonna fail

Well, the fact that it's being written by two bad writers is a legitimate cause for concern.

 

[LaserBees]

I wanted a standalone MOS 2, but they're actually making a Superman/Batman movie, and I can't help but be excited about that. It's freaking Superman and Batman onscreen together. This has been my dream since I was a little kid and it's actually happening. Even if it's not according to my ideal time, I'm still freaking excited about this.

 

[The Question]

Here's a AMC Movie Talk video first shared by ThePowerCosmic in the Misc Comic Film forum. Some interesting insight.

[YT]z1SEmNPuV4s[/YT]

Oh God.

Just him describing the reveal gave me shivers of excitement.

The logical part of my brain knows this is going to end horribly but the part of me that's always wanted a World's Finest movie can't help but feel it. I know I'm going to be so mad when this feeling goes away.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

This is a story suggestion, one of my better ones: Yeah. Let Batman be in there near the last third of the movie, as a mysterious shadow figure. I'd want MOS2 to be divided up between Clark, Lois, the Daily Planet, the big henchman of Luthor, with Batman being a mysterious character who complicates things.

When the big reveal happens, Batman tells Superman his true intent, and eventually (between blows, the fight is inevitable, and this would be a good way to make it interesting) Superman reveals the truth about himself.

I'd want Batman to mysteriously leave (this can be explained for the sequel), so we don't have an IronMan 2 buddy anticlimax. I don't want Batman saving Superman for MOS2, though I'd want it exactly ONCE for World's finest.

The sales pitch for MOS2 should be The Day The Earth Stood Still (1950s) meets Spider-Man 2.

A "real world Superman" with an emphasis on Clark and Metropolis, as well as a mysterious, but brazen foe, criminal mastermind, and hidden antihero could make for a heck of story. The key is to "fit in Bruce" in areas that makes sense. "The stranger" could even be a red herring for Metallo. And yes, I want "guess Metallo's identity" to be the subplot of the movie. Weird, I know

The main plot, of course, should be Clark trying to be a part of Metropolis, balance his life as a superhero, lover, and human being. Weaving in the public's paranoia and Luthor's campaign would allow to see the extent of Superman's effect on earth, while showing Clark try to fight that negative image by doing heroic acts and trying to resolve world conflicts.

This higher profile would definitely cause Bruce's Bat-ears to perk up, with the concern that Superman might suddenly snap. When murders from a superpowered villain occur, Superman gets framed, and he must both cooperate with authorities and investigate what's going on to stop them.

 

[roach]

Well, the fact that it's being written by two bad writers is a legitimate cause for concern.

and to me that is the only legitimate gripe. If you didn't like Man of Steel...well you are gonna get more of the same now with Batman.

 

[roach]

Oh God.

Just him describing the reveal gave me shivers of excitement.

The logical part of my brain knows this is going to end horribly but the part of me that's always wanted a World's Finest movie can't help but feel it. I know I'm going to be so mad when this feeling goes away.

The reveal is online...it's been in either this thread or one of the other ones...the crowd's reaction was the same as mine

 

[The Question]

Oh God.

Just him describing the reveal gave me shivers of excitement.

The logical part of my brain knows this is going to end horribly but the part of me that's always wanted a World's Finest movie can't help but feel it. I know I'm going to be so mad when this feeling goes away.

Okay, I just got to the part where he said that it would have been a bad idea to build up to a JLA movie with standalone Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Flash movies because those characters don't have the ground to stand one their own. The excited feeling is going away thanks to that mind blowingly stupid notion.

Seriously, you could have said the same thing about Iron Man before they hired Robert Downey Jr.

 

[PacificBoy]

Oh God.

Just him describing the reveal gave me shivers of excitement.

The logical part of my brain knows this is going to end horribly but the part of me that's always wanted a World's Finest movie can't help but feel it. I know I'm going to be so mad when this feeling goes away.

I love the presenters' enthusiasm! It kinda made me believe again.

 

[The Question]

I love the presenters' enthusiasm! It kinda made me believe again.

Just for a minute, yeah.

Seriously though, he killed it by spouting a bunch of nonsense. Start with a JLA movie? Really?

So, to hell with the single biggest female superhero every getting a proper film to herself then.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I'd love it if the police were torn between trusting Superman and Luthor. And I'd also love it if Clark figured out relatively early on that all the victims were potential 'whistleblowers' against Luthor. I'd even love it if he thought Corben was going to be another victim.

I'd like it early on if John Corben had an accident and it turned out to be an intentional act to be able to experiment with "therapeutic alien technology" seemingly on behalf of Corben.

 

[Deserana]

I've seen nothing good from how it's played out so far, so forgive me for doubting.

But the ONLY thing we have seen is a Superman/Batman logo. And a bit of talk from Goyer about the title that includes "vs" which could mean anything and we dont know the outcome.

 

[roach]

Just for a minute, yeah.

Seriously though, he killed it by spouting a bunch of nonsense. Start with a JLA movie? Really?

So, to hell with the single biggest female superhero every getting a proper film to herself then.

I sent you a link to the reveal...as you can imagine there are a lot of no no dirty words

 

[The Question]

But the ONLY thing we have seen is a Superman/Batman logo. And a bit of talk from Goyer about the title that includes "vs" which could mean anything and we dont know the outcome.

We've seen that the screenplay is being written by Zack Snyder and David Goyer.

We've seen Man of Steel.

Those aren't good signs.

 

[Herolee10]

But the ONLY thing we have seen is a Superman/Batman logo. And a bit of talk from Goyer about the title that includes "vs" which could mean anything and we dont know the outcome.

But we can also by what we know about the writer and director themselves, which would lead us to know that they both love the Dark Knight and that Snyder is a big fan of the “Dark Knight Returns” story line, where while he may not adapt it, it wouldn’t stop him from borrowing certain elements from it and let’s face it, there was really nothing that great about Superman in that arc.

And I think it’s just people feeling a lot more irritated and irked at the fact that we’re not getting a sequel. This would be the second time that it’s happened. Some people thought that we’d get a sequel for SR and in the end that didn’t pan out and instead, we got a reboot (a well deserved and much needed reboot)

Then, when most of us were sure that we’d get a sequel to MOS due to its financial success, we still end up not getting a direct sequel.