All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 93

[The Question]

Goyer is a great writer his previous works validate.. just give him another good writer to complete the trio and then we'll have a great film

No, actually, he isn't. Every movie he's every written that was good, he was a co-writer with someone else. Every movie he's written by himself has been mediocre at best.

Okay that's not 100% fair, Blade was pretty good and Blade 2 was okay. But then he was working under a pretty fantastic director for both of those films, so that might have helped a bit.

well also they brought us MOS, 300, THE DARK KNIGHT, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES AND WATCHMEN...

Yeah, Watchmen was a bad movie, and 300 was entertaining but also really stupid. And David Goyer wasn't solely responsible for the Dark Knight films, the Nolan brothers palyed a pretty huge role as well. As for Man of Steel, that film was pretty underwhelming to me and the script was really weak.

 

[John-An]

No, actually, he isn't. Every movie he's every written that was good, he was a co-writer with someone else. Every movie he's written by himself has been mediocre at best.

As I said He needs a co-writer and a writer that co-writes the plot..... not only snyder... with another good writer will be great

 

[John-An]

We've seen that the screenplay is being written by Zack Snyder and David Goyer.

We've seen Man of Steel.

Those aren't good signs.

MOS was great... that's a great sign.... and snyder directed it...

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Goyer is a good ideas man but yes, he could use someone else to polish up the screenplay.

 

[Herolee10]

MOS was great... that's a great sign.... and snyder directed it...

But he didn't write it.lol

 

[The Question]

MOS was great... that's a great sign.... and snyder directed it...

Imma have to disagree with you on that one. Even being generous to the film, Man of Steel was meh at best. Certainly wasn't a showcase of brilliant direction, the direction on that film was very sloppy. Great cinematography, not gonna lie, but sloppy direction.

 

[Marvin]

Yeah, that is an enormous problem with World's Finest being the sequel. Superman's first encounter with Lex Luthor, his greatest enemy, with whom he has a personal and deeply meaningful antagonistic relationship, is going to be in a team up story with Batman. Similarly, his first encounter with Batman, with whom he has a deep and complicated partnership and friendship, is going to come in the middle of the story where he fights Lex for the first time. It's doubtful that both relationships are going to get enough development and focus, and in fact it's very likely that Batman will get in the way of the very personal war between Lex and Superman and make it less special.

TDK

fitting as it was a sequel.
love triange et all.

 

[John-An]

No, actually, he isn't. Every movie he's every written that was good, he was a co-writer with someone else. Every movie he's written by himself has been mediocre at best.

Okay that's not 100% fair, Blade was pretty good and Blade 2 was okay. But then he was working under a pretty fantastic director for both of those films, so that might have helped a bit.

Yeah, Watchmen was a bad movie, and 300 was entertaining but also really stupid. And David Goyer wasn't solely responsible for the Dark Knight films, the Nolan brothers palyed a pretty huge role as well. As for Man of Steel, that film was pretty underwhelming to me and the script was really weak.

for me watchmen is one of the best comic book movies ever adapted... 300 stupid? well that's nosense... It was epicness... and you say MOS was underwhelming? man What are you talking about? the best (with bb) comic book origin.... if you don't like it that's another thing but the movie was pretty solid (not perfect) but was great

 

[John-An]

Imma have to disagree with you on that one. Even being generous to the film, Man of Steel was meh at best. Certainly wasn't a showcase of brilliant direction, the direction on that film was very sloppy. Great cinematography, not gonna lie, but sloppy direction.

How many times did you see it? if you saw it only once.. I totally recommend you that see it 2 or at least 1 time... there were too much things to assimilate and the way of telling and the way that the old boy scout was difficult for some people) Some people think because the flashback things were the things that made the movie you said... but I wouldn't wanna see the same origin as in Supes The movie... the way they told the story was pretty original and was solid not too much bla bla... the sufficient time to tell the story IMO..

 

[The Question]

TDK

fitting as it was a sequel.
love triange et all.

I don't understand what this collection of words means.

for me watchmen is one of the best comic book movies ever adapted... 300 stupid? well that's nosense... It was epicness... and you say MOS was underwhelming? man What are you talking about? the best (with bb) comic book origin.... if you don't like it that's another thing but the movie was pretty solid (not perfect) but was great

Well, in regards to 300, stupid and epic are not mutually exclusive. That movie was epic. It was also really stupid.

And as for Man of Steel, yeah I didn't like it. But I don't think it's just a matter of personal preference, the movie was not very well made. The pacing was awful, the story structure was a mess, the editing was awful, the dialogue was pretty wooden and on the nose, the characterization was weak, and told us things instead of showing us things way too much.

I mean, if you want a full, detailed explanation of my problems with that movie, read this article. I agree with it about 99.99%, and it's very insightful. I love this guy's essays in general, he's a great film critic. I'd get into it myself but I'm kind of tired of having long ass debates about this movie:

http://badassdigest.com/2013/07/03/film-crit-hulk-man-of-steel/

The Hulk gimmick is a little weird, but after a while you ignore it when you get into what he's saying.

 

[The Question]

How many times did you see it? if you saw it only once.. I totally recommend you that see it 2 or at least 1 time... there were too much things to assimilate and the way of telling and the way that the old boy scout was difficult for some people) Some people think because the flashback things were the things that made the movie you said... but I wouldn't wanna see the same origin as in Supes The movie... the way they told the story was pretty original and was solid not too much bla bla... the sufficient time to tell the story IMO..

I wasn't confused by the film at all, I just didn't enjoy watching it that much. I mean, I'm not going to lie, there were times watching the movie I did enjoy myself. There were definitely things in the film I liked and I thought were fun, especially as a Superman fan. But on the whole the movie really didn't engage me and I didn't leave the theater feeling excited or even especially happy.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

^I would be surprised if she doesn't show up again sometime down the road. Snyder and Co. must be hearing how much of a fan favorite she has become.

 

[Andreth]

I doubt Faora will ever show up. Maybe in a proper MoS sequel but that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

She's pretty much gone. We'll only have time for the main superman villains.

 

[John-An]

I don't understand what this collection of words means.



Well, in regards to 300, stupid and epic are not mutually exclusive. That movie was epic. It was also really stupid.

And as for Man of Steel, yeah I didn't like it. But I don't think it's just a matter of personal preference, the movie was not very well made. The pacing was awful, the story structure was a mess, the editing was awful, the dialogue was pretty wooden and on the nose, the characterization was weak, and told us things instead of showing us things way too much.

I mean, if you want a full, detailed explanation of my problems with that movie, read this article. I agree with it about 99.99%, and it's very insightful. I love this guy's essays in general, he's a great film critic. I'd get into it myself but I'm kind of tired of having long ass debates about this movie:

http://badassdigest.com/2013/07/03/film-crit-hulk-man-of-steel/

The Hulk gimmick is a little weird, but after a while you ignore it when you get into what he's saying.

Well that's your opinion... althought the story of 300 wasn't so strong was solid enough to lift the great effects...

respect for MOS I respect yout opinion but the direction and edition have its flaws I accept it... but that much? I don't think so... the dialogues were great.. the characterization was pretty strong and the dialogues were perfect for the kind of movie sci.fi and cmb... like in TDKT (great but not perfect) I mean I wasn't expecting a Godfather type of movie...

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I thought he said and I quote, that he was doing another "superman" film.

Yea he did

 

[Marvin]

I don't understand what this collection of words means.

Well first re read the segment I quoted from you, for good measure.

I point to The Dark Kinght for a paradigm of this exact thing.
First time encounter with deeply personal antagonist, whilst the story introduces and develops a another heroic figure whilst they vie for the heart of the heroine.
Joker/Bruce Wayne/Harvey Dent/Rachel Dawes.
Lex(unconfirmed)/Superman/Batman/Lois.

also that TDK was also a sequel to a successful relaunch.

It's doubtful that both relationships are going to get enough development and focus, and in fact it's very likely that Batman will get in the way of the very personal war between Lex and Superman and make it less special.

Point being, it's happened before with these producers, and there is just as much chance that it will happen again. At this point it's just a matter of if you want to believe in it or not. I know what I'm doing.

Let me know if I need to clarify further(I'm not really here any more).

 

[John-An]

I wasn't confused by the film at all, I just didn't enjoy watching it that much. I mean, I'm not going to lie, there were times watching the movie I did enjoy myself. There were definitely things in the film I liked and I thought were fun, especially as a Superman fan. But on the whole the movie really didn't engage me and I didn't leave the theater feeling excited or even especially happy.

but did you watch it only once or how many...? I feel totally the opposite.. (in my first time I felt pretty confused and amazed but my feelings were a little confused... in the second time I really enjoyed and appreciate thing that the first sight didn't give me... so I felt engaged and pretty amazed by the whole movie althought they have little mistakes

 

[The Question]

Well that's your opinion... althought the story of 300 wasn't so strong was solid enough to lift the great effects...

respect for MOS I respect yout opinion but the direction and edition have its flaws I accept it... but that much? I don't think so... the dialogues were great.. the characterization was pretty strong and the dialogues were perfect for the kind of movie sci.fi and cmb... like in TDKT (great but not perfect) I mean I wasn't expecting a Godfather type of movie...

A movie doesn't have to be The Godfather to have good dialogue. Good dialogue is the basic good thing you should expect from every movie, regardless of genre.

 

[The Question]

but did you watch it only once or how many...? I feel totally the opposite.. (in my first time I felt pretty confused and amazed but my feelings were a little confused... in the second time I really enjoyed and appreciate thing that the first sight didn't give me... so I felt engaged and pretty amazed by the whole movie althought they have little mistakes

I only saw it once. I did not feel inclined to see it a second time after the first viewing.

 

[The Question]

Well first re read the segment I quoted from you, for good measure.

I point to The Dark Kinght for a paradigm of this exact thing.
First time encounter with deeply personal antagonist, whilst the story introduces and develops a another heroic figure whilst they vie for the heart of the heroine.
Joker/Bruce Wayne/Harvey Dent/Rachel Dawes.
Lex(unconfirmed)/Superman/Batman/Lois.

Harvey Dent isn't Superman. He's not as big a character, he doesn't have the same mythology and backstory baggage, and he has a pre-existic tie to the Batman mythos. Heck, he was the second villain of the film, we just saw his downfall in detail. And a love triangle between Superman, Batman, and Lois wouldn't be the same as the love triangle in The Dark Knight. I explained how Lois and her role in the Superman mythos are unique. And if Lois gets the amount of screen time and development that Rachel got in The Dark Knight I'll be pissed.

also that TDK was also a sequel to a successful relaunch.

Point being, it's happened before with these producers, and there is just as much chance that it will happen again. At this point it's just a matter of if you want to believe in it or not. I know what I'm doing.

Let me know if I need to clarify further(I'm not really here any more).

I really don't think the two are comparable beyond very superficial similarities.

 

[John-An]

I only saw it once. I did not feel inclined to see it a second time after the first viewing.

Well that's your problem man.. My advice for you is that you give it a second view and your opinion will change.. some people I've talked with and have the same feeling and then the change happened that your's but well the decision is yours....

 

[The Question]

Well don't get me wrong, I'm all up for a shared universe in the long run of things, especially if it ends up with Superman emerging as the leader for the Justice League.

It's just the fact that i don't like on how Superman doesn't have his own direct sequel to go to anymore that bothers me.

That's pretty much in the ballpark of my sentiments, and my response when people ask me why I'm not just excited for a World's Finest movie. I want a World's Finest movie, I've wanted one for as far back as I remember. I just want a good World's Finest movie, and it seems very likely to me at this point that they're gonna **** it up.

 

[John-An]

A movie doesn't have to be The Godfather to have good dialogue. Good dialogue is the basic good thing you should expect from every movie, regardless of genre.

The dialoge is great (perfection doesn't exist), pretty fluent and was one of the great things of the movie as an ORIGIN MOVIE (things as DP JOB, more lois-clark and supes-metropolis people are going to take place in the sequel)... and without too much comedy, good drama and great epic moments (smth some people didn't like that decision) IMO

 

[The Question]

The dialoge is great (perfection doesn't exist), pretty fluent and was one of the great things of the movie as an ORIGIN MOVIE (things as DP JOB, more lois-clark and supes-metropolis people are going to take place in the sequel)... and without too much comedy, good drama and great epic moments (smth some people didn't like that decision) IMO

What does it being an origin movie have to do with the dialogue?

 

[Marvin]

Harvey Dent isn't Superman. He's not as big a character, he doesn't have the same mythology and backstory baggage, and he has a pre-existic tie to the Batman mythos. Heck, he was the second villain of the film, we just saw his downfall in detail. And a love triangle between Superman, Batman, and Lois wouldn't be the same as the love triangle in The Dark Knight. I explained how Lois and her role in the Superman mythos are unique. And if Lois gets the amount of screen time and development that Rachel got in The Dark Knight I'll be pissed.



I really don't think the two are comparable beyond very superficial similarities.

I compared Dent's supporting role to that of Batman(not superman).
Batman's big great mythology means nothing if the writing doesn't call for it. If the writing calls for a glorified cameo then nick fury himself(leader of the avengers and the man in charge of all establishments in the mcu) can show up in an Ironman movie and serves as just a supporting character. God himself could show up in a film and if it's written as a supporting role all the "baggage" would be for not. Dent was the second antagonist, villain is a matter of opinion and even if he was, he was a supporting hero till his arc called for a change.

I'm not sure what you explained about lois and how she works especially in relation to love triangles with batman, but Bruce Timm would probably have a thing or two to say about that.

I don't think it's as impossible as you seem to is all.