All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 93

[Ms. Marvel]

Snyder may not be the best director. Goyer may not be the best writer but for godsake people they are not idiots.

They aren't gonna build Superman up to be a hero by the end of MoS for him to take an unbelievable u-turn and him to get his ass beat by Batman. They barely had a SUPERman in MoS, he was getting thrown around left, right and center. The most I can see is Batman approaching Superman with caution but then teaming up by the end much like The Avengers. I can't believe that Batman would be stupid enough to start a fight nor can I believe the Superman established in MoS would now stat a fight with Batman.

It's because of the TDKR quote they used when announcing the movie. Can you really blame some people for being worried?

 

[J.Howlett]

Snyder may not be the best director. Goyer may not be the best writer but for godsake people they are not idiots.

They aren't gonna build Superman up to be a hero by the end of MoS for him to take an unbelievable u-turn and him to get his ass beat by Batman. They barely had a SUPERman in MoS, he was getting thrown around left, right and center. The most I can see is Batman approaching Superman with caution but then teaming up by the end much like The Avengers. I can't believe that Batman would be stupid enough to start a fight nor can I believe the Superman established in MoS would now stat a fight with Batman.

This.

 

[J.Howlett]

It's because of the TDKR quote they used when announcing the movie. Can you really blame some people for being worried?

They used the most famous quote to build buzz and you think that's the route they're going?

Optimism, people. Give the damn thing a chance. We're two years and a whole bunch of developments away from the release.

 

[The Question]

Our opinions are based on our response to Man of Steel. I thought the film was a straight knock out...top five of the genre.

You didn't.

We will have to wait and see.

It's more than that. Wether or not you loved Man of Steel, I really think a World's Finest film that works this soon out of the gate requires a level of sophistication from the creative team that simply wasn't necessary to make Man of Steel, and I've never seen Goyer or Snyder display elsewhere.

 

[Marvin]

It's not just a simple equation of "You need X number of movies before you can do a team up movie." Part of it is that Superman himself, who he is and what is place in the world is, hasn't been developed enough on his own yet. Captain America: The First Avenger, for example, covered his whole career in the war, and his postwar culture shock works perfectly for a team up movie. But Man of Steel barely scratched the surface with Superman and how the world reacts to him. That's one of the many reasons why what Marvel did and what DC is doing aren't exactly the same, Superman needs at least one more film on his own before the team up starts, based both on who he is and on how much Man of Steel got into.

Yes I do recall that quick montage of Caps war time career in that film. I suppose DC is at a loss for not doing similar in terms of world reaction and what not. Then again all these people that are praising Pacific Rim can tell you a think or two about what can be done with 10mins of prologue

If we'd only gotten Iron Man 1 before The Avengers, it would have been a problem too, we needed the second film because the demands of the character and how much the first film got into it made it necessary.

What if we had gotten an Ironman meets Captain America film after IM1?
Address that and I'll know if we are on the same page.
Funny enough I thought IM2 was a superfluous waste of time, in which the stark character arc was retreaded for no reason...

War Machine ain't a star the way Batman's a star. Almost nobody is. He's got nowhere near the story baggage of fanbase that the caped crusader has.

Wasn't talking about popularity. I assume you read war machine and know just how layered and dimensional the character can be when written the way he is in his book. However in IM, he's just written as a supporting player. No reason this can't be applied to batman, especially when you already have his origin and motivations expressed to the GA in recent film history. He doesn't need that much time.

 

[Nathan]

I hope we get Bruce Wayne for the majority of the Movie. Working with Lex, helping him rebuild Gotham, etc. Then we have a few scenes of Batman just sneaking around, gathering information, maybe confronting Superman and telling him that he'll keep an eye on him. Then during an elaborate action scene, where it's clear Superman is definitely not an enemy and in the need of help, we get a bunch of exploding Batarangs flying out of the shadows, and Batman joining the fight.

 

[The Question]

Yes I do recall that quick montage of Caps war time career in that film. I suppose DC is at a loss for not doing similar in terms of world reaction and what not. Then again all these people that are praising Pacific Rim can tell you a think or two about what can be done with 10mins of prologue

The world's reaction to Captain America and the world's reaction to Superman are two very different things.

What if we had gotten an Ironman meets Captain America film after IM1?

It would have been too soon, especially without a Cap solo film before it as well.

Wasn't talking about popularity. I assume you read war machine and know just how layered and dimensional the character can be when written the way he is in his book.

I've honestly never read a War Machine solo book.

 

[J.Howlett]

It's more than that. Wether or not you loved Man of Steel, I really think a World's Finest film that works this soon out of the gate requires a level of sophistication from the creative team that simply wasn't necessary to make Man of Steel, and I've never seen Goyer or Snyder display elsewhere.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

[Deserana]

It's because of the TDKR quote they used when announcing the movie. Can you really blame some people for being worried?

Did people miss Snyder explicitly say before the announcement "This is NOT the thing we adapting"?

 

[Steamteck]

Our opinions are based on our response to Man of Steel. I thought the film was a straight knock out...top five of the genre.

You didn't.

We will have to wait and see.

I agree and couldn't be happier.

 

[Marvin]

Is this a Superman sequel or a Superman/Batman team up? When people complain about the lack of a sequel for Superman, people say it's a sequel. When people complain that Superman is going to be "outshined" in his own movie, people say it's a team up movie.

Joker may or may not have out shined batman in TDK. But it was most certainly batmans film. One that furthered his story and give him lots of humps to get over. It also set the stage for his world going forward.

That's what I see as a worst case scenario. Either way i personally see it as a Superman with batman coming to town. This happens in just about every single super hero book these days.

Superman sequel.

 

[Marvin]

Did people miss Snyder explicitly say before the announcement "This is NOT the thing we adapting"?

 

[J.Howlett]

Did people miss Snyder explicitly say before the announcement "This is NOT the thing we adapting"?

They don't believe it.

 

[Nathan]

And I guess it makes sense. After the destruction witnessed by the world, and an Alien being still out there that answers to no one, you'd think Batman wants to get a handle on the situation immediately. Find a way to take this god like being out, when necessary. I wouldn't be surprised if he made arrangements to get to Metropolis as soon as all the action was over.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

And I guess it makes sense. After the destruction witnessed by the world, and an Alien being still out there that answers to no one, you'd think Batman wants to get a handle on the situation immediately. Find a way to take this god like being out, when necessary. I wouldn't be surprised if he made arrangements to get to Metropolis as soon as all the action was over.

Open the movie with Bruce watching the events of the MOS battle in the batcave. Bruce turns to Alfred, "Do we have any more cars left?"

I agree with you though. While I still would have preferred just a straight up Superman sequel, it does make sense for another hero to react to such a huge event as the battle in Metropolis.

 

[Marvin]

It would have been too soon, especially without a Cap solo film before it as well.

I'm implying it happens after caps film, but sure. I see where you stand. You really needed that IM2 film for all it was worth.

I've honestly never read a War Machine solo book.

It's pretty tragic.

Spoiler

 

[Deserana]

It's more than that. Wether or not you loved Man of Steel, I really think a World's Finest film that works this soon out of the gate requires a level of sophistication from the creative team that simply wasn't necessary to make Man of Steel, and I've never seen Goyer or Snyder display elsewhere.

But it isn't difficult, JeremyJahns quickly came up with a plotline that works. Lex Luthor comes into Metropolis planning to rebuild it, he requests the aid of Bruce Wayne to help him which he does. Superman thinks there is something odd about Luthor so investogates, Batman believing Superman is in the wrong confronts him blah blah blah... simple beginning to a Superman story. Superman and his new life could be in the forefront and the Lex/Bruce stuff doesn't need much to establish itself.

Obviously this could be completely wrong and nowhere near what they go for but it proves it is simple to build a story with Superman still being the hero and at the center.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I hated the way War Machine was handled in the Iron Man movies.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

They used the most famous quote to build buzz and you think that's the route they're going?

Optimism, people. Give the damn thing a chance. We're two years and a whole bunch of developments away from the release.

Not me. I didn't say I was worried about Batman beating Superman in a fight.

 

[The Question]

But it isn't difficult, JeremyJahns quickly came up with a plotline that works. Lex Luthor comes into Metropolis planning to rebuild it, he requests the aid of Bruce Wayne to help him which he does. Superman thinks there is something odd about Luthor so investogates, Batman believing Superman is in the wrong confronts him blah blah blah... simple beginning to a Superman story. Superman and his new life could be in the forefront and the Lex/Bruce stuff doesn't need much to establish itself.

Obviously this could be completely wrong and nowhere near what they go for but it proves it is simple to build a story with Superman still being the hero and at the center.

I don't see how that proves that. It's a vague first third of a plot outline, it doesn't go into any details, and it's the details where it gets complicated. Juggling screen time, making sure characters get the right amount of establishment and development, creating a strong enough conflict to carry the film, and so on.

 

[Marvin]

And I guess it makes sense. After the destruction witnessed by the world, and an Alien being still out there that answers to no one, you'd think Batman wants to get a handle on the situation immediately. Find a way to take this god like being out, when necessary. I wouldn't be surprised if he made arrangements to get to Metropolis as soon as all the action was over.

Start the movie off with bruce doing this

with binoculars in metropolis watching as superman is doing this

End the film with them doing this.

easy work.

 

[The Question]

I'm implying it happens after caps film, but sure. I see where you stand. You really needed that IM2 film for all it was worth.

Yes. It set the stage for the character and his place in the world for Avengers and was full of useful and necessary character development in it's own right. I really like Iron Man 2.

 

[The Question]

Start the movie off with bruce doing this

with binoculars in metropolis watching as superman is doing this

End the film with them doing this.

easy work.

There's a little more to making a movie than that I think.

 

[HighFivingMF]

"Why is that guy with the binoculars so interested in the cat I just saved... Is it his?"

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Optimism, people. Give the damn thing a chance. We're two years and a whole bunch of developments away from the release.

this. the amount of negativity some people are showing is just downright foolish.