All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 93

[Deserana]

No, the quote didn't bother me at all. All it teases is that the two will have some kind of confrontation at some point in the movie. It doesn't mean that it will be like it was in DKR (Snyder even said that they weren't adapting it).

Exactly. Lex and Wayne could work together to build Metropolis with Wayne thinking Lex is a good guy. Supes realizes something is up Wayne as Batman interferes, Superman owns Batman and says this is what Lex really wants. Yadda yadda yadda. Obviously there would be a lot more to that but is easily a scenario in which the two would fight and Superman would win, making Batman a sort of villain only for him to turn around at the end.

 

[Marvin]

I know, but still. If only the announcement is like this then it's not a good start.


At least you can't blame some of us for being worried.

Sure.
Just ask yourself this, when luthor out thinks and defeats superman(red son, most of the movies) it's cause he's the clever human bad guy. When batman does it, it's unrealistic. Even though not only is batman a better militant tactician than luthor but he knows superman better than anyone on the planet not named Martha Kent.

just a thought.

 

[Loki882]

All I'm saying is lets wait for more relevant info (or any relevant info for that matter) before bemoaning hoe much this is going to suck.

 

[Loki882]

Apparently it's ok for Lex to do it, because he's an EVIL super-genius. As opposed to Bruce, who is a GOOD super-genius, so him winning would be unrealistic.

 

[Andreth]

No., not really. There is absolutely no reason to be worried yet, we know absolutely nothing about plot, characters, or anything important other than the title and logo.

These news are making me bipolar, one day I'm happy and then I'm freaking out


I'm also worried about Clark /Bruce dominating 90% of the movie leaving the develop of Clark & Lois void and null. I'll try not to be negative or the next 2 years are gonna be hell

 

[Loki882]

Trust me, Snyder and Goyer would not be that stupid. They know that if that happens, the fans will storm WB HQ and tar and feather them. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

[Marvin]

Didn't matter because by that point, the main characters had their share of solo films and were already developed.

Most of those characters had one film. Some had none. Eitherway, the point was joss didn't let his favorites(assuming he had any) dictate the way of things. Not sure why that will happen here.

I would say there is a high probability that Batman steals the spotlight from Superman. It just seems to always turn out that way. Batman just always seems to "win" against him or he is just always the cooler one. Call it an issue with me or whatever but when I see Superman has still some ways to go in his development only to find out that he now has to share the spotlight with such a high profile character as Batman, it doesn't sit entirely well with me.

Well, rest easy, Goyer and the evil Snyder have already shown that they don't have any respect for the way Superman is portrayed in the books. Maybe in this film Superman will rip batmans head off and kick it onto the moon.

Point being, that happens in the books sometimes(cause batman is cooler), when it comes to film it's looking like it might be a different story. Nolan's batman is a loser imo, Snyders superman isn't selling girl scout cookies on the weekends.

 

[The Shape]

Yeah, I hated that they used that quote where Batman is showing superiority over Superman.

There's no need to worry about one being superior to the other. This film isn't going to be about disrespecting either of these characters, or showing who's better once and for all. None of that. It's about showing how and why these men ultimately come together.

Yes, they're going to face off at first, and that's going to be fun for everyone. It's not hard to imagine how this will go. Superman wins one fight, Batman wins one fight, they put aside their differences to overcome a common threat in the end. Something like that, with other twists and turns thrown in.

In many ways, Clark and Bruce become like brothers and see themselves as equals, despite the difference in their level of power. I can already see some of you starting to fret that Batman is going to steal Superman's "thunder", but that's not what this is about.

 

[The Shape]

Well, rest easy, Goyer and the evil Snyder have already shown that they don't have any respect for the way Superman is portrayed in the books. Maybe in this film Superman will rip batmans head off and kick it onto the moon.

Point being, that happens in the books sometimes(cause batman is cooler), when it comes to film it's looking like it might be a different story. Nolan's batman is a loser imo, Snyders superman isn't selling girl scout cookies on the weekends.

Are you high or something? Talking some crazy jibberish.

 

[Andreth]

Sure.
Just ask yourself this, when luthor out thinks and defeats superman(red son, most of the movies) it's cause he's the clever human bad guy. When batman does it, it's unrealistic. Even though not only is batman a better militant tactician than luthor but he knows superman better than anyone on the planet not named Martha Kent.

just a thought.

Well, that's a good point. I hope the main antagonist is Lex Luthor and not a Batman villain.

 

[Loki882]

If Lex can do it, why is it so hard to believe that Batman can as well (they're both billionaire geniuses with high-tech toys)?

 

[tomoe]

Sure.
Just ask yourself this, when luthor out thinks and defeats superman(red son, most of the movies) it's cause he's the clever human bad guy. When batman does it, it's unrealistic. Even though not only is batman a better militant tactician than luthor but he knows superman better than anyone on the planet not named Martha Kent.

just a thought.

The difference is Superman always comes back and defeats or outsmarts Lex in the end. Not so with Batman. With Batman, he usually just comes out looking dumb and that's it. No payback of any kind.

As for Snyder and Goyer not being dumb... well I certainly don't get the impression of intelligence from them. At best they are of average intelligence, and you really need someone smarter than average to write smart characters and scenarios.

 

[Loki882]

They made a really successful Superman movie, something that hasn't been done in over twenty years. Also, Batman coming out on top in previous portrayals is IRRELEVANT since Snyder/Goyer were not involved in those other projects, they've never written these two together, so we have no idea how it will go.

 

[Marvin]

Are you high or something? Talking some crazy jibberish.

I'm high on grape juice right now, yes.
I also neglected to add the sarcasm smiley's.

 

[Deserana]

Yeah I just cannot see with Superman being as powerful as he is in MoS that Snyder would would somehow make a mortal tear him to pieces it would just not make sense after the "heroic" ending of MoS. They would have to significantly weaken Superman which would just not make sense seeing as we haven't even had a proper Superman moment yet. And I think Snyder and Goyer would know that.

If there is a fight Superman will win IMO mainly because people would be expecting Batman to, heck I imagine Snyder would put his own little twist on The Dark Knight Returns in it.

 

[Marvin]

The difference is Superman always comes back and defeats or outsmarts Lex in the end. Not so with Batman. With Batman, he usually just comes out looking dumb and that's it. No payback of any kind.

Um how exactly did superman outsmart lex in STM?
How exactly did he out smart lex in Superman returns?
Here's your answer, he didn't he was saved.

As for Red Son, that was a world class mental ass kicking. Even batman would have been like

As for Snyder and Goyer not being dumb... well I certainly don't get the impression of intelligence from them. At best they are of average intelligence, and you really need someone smarter than average to write smart characters and scenarios.

Goyer wrote Begins, lots of smart stuff in that movie, tech and law jargon and stuff. Can't be all rocks for brains.

 

[Andreth]

If Lex can do it, why is it so hard to believe that Batman can as well (they're both billionaire geniuses with high-tech toys)?

Yes, but when it comes to Lex, Superman always wins in the end, but not with Batman, Batman is always the cooler one, the character that kicks superman's ass and it's cool. He makes Clark look bad.

Announcing a Superman/Batman movie using that quote made me nervous.

 

[tomoe]

Yeah I just cannot see with Superman being as powerful as he is in MoS that Snyder would would somehow make a mortal tear him to pieces it would just not make sense after the "heroic" ending of MoS. They would have to significantly weaken Superman which would just not make sense seeing as we haven't even had a proper Superman moment yet. And I think Snyder and Goyer would know that.

If there is a fight Superman will win IMO mainly because people would be expecting Batman to, heck I imagine Snyder would put his own little twist on The Dark Knight Returns in it.

Well, that's easy, BAM kryptonite. There really is no other way.

I would love to see Superman flat out win and hand Batman his @$$.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah, he defeated a group of highly-trained and battle hardened Kryptonian soldiers with super powers and state of the art technology led by the former SC of the Kryptonian military (who's neck he snapped like a twig), but he'll be humiliated by Batman. It's not going to happen because Snyder won't let it happen.

 

[tomoe]

Yeah, he defeated a group of highly-trained and battle hardened Kryptonian soldiers with super powers and state of the art technology led by the former SC of the Kryptonian military (who's neck he snapped like a twig), but he'll be humiliated by Batman. It's not going to happen because Snyder won't let it happen.

I hope you're right.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I posted this in the sequels area and I am going to post it here. I have not had a problem in the past with Batman coming up with byzantine plans that can hurt or perhaps even defeat Superman. It's when such stories just have it happen for the sake of it happening, without taking into account all the ways Superman could overcome said plans that it sticks in the Superman fans craw. And the stupid Batman can judo flip a man who can physically produce forces that can tear titanium like cardboard stuff is just that: Stupid. I think the idea of a physical confrontation between the Batman and Henry C.'s MOS Superman should be tabled.

That being said, I think that Batman can challenge Superman on a more personal and character driven level. And it can work with many of the themes that were in MOS. I for one am excited at the prospect of seeing Superman on screen with Batman and (I hope) Lex Luthor. This would tie in nicely to the theme of MOS. Batman and Luthor are both prime examples of, as Brando's Jor-El would say, the "capacity" of humanity. Both are driven and brilliant in their own ways. One will become Clark's greatest enemy and a threat to all he holds dear. The other is destined to be his greatest ally and a friend that proves him that humanity is worth trusting and defending.

 

[Loki882]

Snyder didn't just spend four years of his life working on MOS and know three more working on WF just to punk out Superman in his own sequel and have millions of fans hate him for eternity.

 

[Andreth]

Yeah, he defeated a group of highly-trained and battle hardened Kryptonian soldiers with super powers and state of the art technology led by the former SC of the Kryptonian military (who's neck he snapped like a twig), but he'll be humiliated by Batman. It's not going to happen because Snyder won't let it happen.

I really really hope so.

And yeah, "humilliated" , that's the word I was looking for. The last thing I need as a superman fan after years and years of hearing how lame he is against the mighty Batman , is to see him being humilliated by him.

I'm gonna hope for the best.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

^You and me both

 

[Loki882]

See my above post about seven years of Snyder's life Andreth.