All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 93

[Loki882]

There was plenty of story and it drove the film. It just also had a lot of action as well, which is EXACTLY what I want in a Superman film.

 

[Marvin]

Well it's definitely no secret that Snyder's take on Superman, with MOS and even now as he moves forward, is really getting a lot of mixed reaction. Heck, I wonder if it'll be remembered most for having divided up the fandom the most.

It might be, then again fanboys have a way of receiving some of these origins and relaunches.

I can't wait till they reboot IM.

There's absolutely no way this is an artistic or story-driven move. Like the article says it's WB giving 'added value' to the sequel after the mixed reviews and word of mouth of MOS.

Unfortunately SMendelson has been one of the biggest mal contents this film has faced all year. I personally expect no less from him.
Even Jaime has had twitter changes with him, if I remember correctly it was during the box office numbers time.

I don't see any other way he would view this. Definitely not as a MOS triumph.

 

[PacificBoy]

Well it's definitely no secret that Snyder's take on Superman, with MOS and even now as he moves forward, is really getting a lot of mixed reaction. Heck, I wonder if it'll be remembered most for having divided up the fandom the most.

Until Superman vs Batman comes out that is. That will likely grab the honor. Just imagine the sheer number of camps.

 

[tomoe]

Yeah, there's every possibility since Goyer has reportedly been working on the sequel script since Feb and is tied down long-term by WB to seemingly help develop the DCU. But to outsiders like us it seems that it's purely a reactionary, fiscal response.

I'd say though even as a gamble, it's hell of a trump card WB is pulling out.

But did that script he was working on include Batman? If it didn't and he has to now shoehorn him in somehow, I see the results being very very bad.

 

[Liam_H]

If two beings flew by you, wouldn't you stop to look and see what the **** was going on?

Not if I saw that they just caused an entire building to collapse. Not to mention the fact that you had doomsday machine floating in the sky that was turning the city into dust moments earlier.

 

[Loki882]

I doubt that adding Batman was some spur of the moment decisions, based on what both Snyder and Goyer said before the movie came out.

 

[PacificBoy]

But did that script he was working on include Batman? If it didn't and he has to now shoehorn him in somehow, I see the results being very very bad.

No idea, no one outside of WB is privy to that info is my guess. My gut feeling is that the movie will either be a game changer and raise the CBM scene to a whole new level, or crash and burn horribly.

 

[Loki882]

Liam H, you have no idea how you would react if you were put in such a situation. It's easy to make claims like that when you've never experienced fear and shock on that level, I have and I reacted the same way as the people in MOS

 

[Tempest]

Not if I saw that they just caused an entire building to collapse. Not to mention the fact that you had doomsday machine floating in the sky that was turning the city into dust moments earlier.

No, you might not stop and stare. Then again, you might. Hopefully you never have a reason to find out what you would do in a life and death situation like that.

 

[Notrip]

wow, do people actually think they threw this together last minute? I would guess this has been on the table for months. And it wouldn't surprise me if it was Goyer and Synder who came up with it, not WB. Batman/Bruce will only help in this movie in terms of reviews imo. People cannot relate with Clark as many reviews stated. even Richard Roeper said something like that in his review, Batman being better and more interesting than Supes.

 

[Marvin]

I was watching the animated worlds finest on youtube this morning, getting myself pumped. Love that movie.

However does anyone remember how many buildings joker brought down in metropolis at the end there? It's pretty tragic.

http://youtu.be/yDcxVcon0VY?t=3m7s

Also it seems the heroes really wanted joker dead at the end. It's so odd lol.

 

[Liam_H]

I'm not arguing that people don't react like that in such a situation. I'm saying is that what the film conveyed to me during that scene is not how I interpreted it.

 

[Tempest]

I'm not arguing that people don't react like that in such a situation. I'm saying is that what the film conveyed to me during that scene is not how I interpreted it.

Again, why does everything need to be explained in great detail? I don't get it.

 

[Liam_H]

Whoever said anything about explaining anything.

 

[InJustice]

I took a look at the artbook and I can't help but notice a couple of artwork that could've significantly changed the tone of MoS (unless it was cut from the film).

1) Superman was standing alone in the destroyed city block in metropolis, looking melancholic, almost as if he were ashamed that HE was part of the destruction.
2) Superman was melancholic atop a train that was lodged into a building in Metropolis, also exhibiting shame and disgust at what happened.

If it was leftover storyboard/concept art...damn, they missed a prime opportunity.

 

[Showtime]

wow, do people actually think they threw this together last minute? I would guess this has been on the table for months. And it wouldn't surprise me if it was Goyer and Synder who came up with it, not WB. Batman/Bruce will only help in this movie in terms of reviews imo. People cannot relate with Clark as many reviews stated. even Richard Roeper said something like that in his review, Batman being better and more interesting than Supes.

I don't think it was last minute necessarily, but it isn't hashed out. That's for sure.

 

[Smashlilman]

Massive traffic jams aren't abnormal in Manhattan. They happen with some frequency. The city is not well designed for having a car in.


I'm not saying that's not what they were going for, it probably ways, I'm just saying I didn't think it was clear enough.

Ok got ya. I can agree with that.

 

[The Question]

A valiant and interesting analysis I gotta say.
However my point was that it seems you will justify "fluff" if it serves what you deem to be dramatic or in this case thematic purpose.

That's not the case. If it serves that purpose, that means that it isn't fluff.

For example, yes the finale is about coming together as a team, so now that means 30 minutes of thor swinging his hammer and iron man opening up his palms and black widow twirling her staff is going to be all seen as necessary cause it's driving the team work point home. Could that scene have been half as long under a "better" directors edit? Probably, would the film have been better received? Well that depends on what people define as a "better film experience".

I disagree. I can't think of anything in that sequence that could be cut out and wouldn't diminish the rest of the sequence. Everything there either worked towards the themes of the story, gave room for a little character moment that kept us invested in the action, ratcheted up the tension and stakes of what was going on, or just straight up moved the plot forward. I can't think of anything in that sequence that I would call fluff.

Further, that fight could have started with everyone getting to the city at the same time, including banner and cap telling them how to contribute(instead of half way into the fight).

I disagree. The whole team coming together at different times from different places serviced the theme, it dramatized them coming together as a group and being stronger together than they were before. It would have bee a lot less dynamic and a lot less satisfying if they all just showed up at once.

That structure was also confusing, did the tide turn because of banner or because they were still infighting and after the team work started they began winning...

The tide turned because:

1) Logically they're now working together with a coherent strategy instead of everybody just kind of doing their own thing, as well as all of them being there instead of just some of them being there.

2) Thematically, it represented the whole point of people being stronger when they work together.

Speaking of which, a berserker hulk on the air ship, I suppose that had it's point to be sure, but why the awesome fight with Thor...
I thought it was the best part but I'm not seeing the story point of those two clashing. However I'm not going to ask you to address it this isn't the place.

I'll address it anyway because it will only take a second:

1) Logically, Thor is the only person on board who could fight The Hulk, and somebody had to.

2) Thematically, showing the team at odds with each other and how that hinders what they want to do drives home the point about team work and community.

 

[tomoe]

wow, do people actually think they threw this together last minute? I would guess this has been on the table for months. And it wouldn't surprise me if it was Goyer and Synder who came up with it, not WB. Batman/Bruce will only help in this movie in terms of reviews imo. People cannot relate with Clark as many reviews stated. even Richard Roeper said something like that in his review Batman being better and more interesting than Supes.

I disagree that people cannot relate to Clark. I just think they did a poor job of making him relatable in the movie. If he had more of a personality in the movie he would have been a lot more relatable. And I really don't see how being a genius billionaire expert martial artist and expert everything else makes Batman more relatable. Just cuz he's human? Somehow a human being all that seems almost as impossible as Superman.

 

[FilmNerdJamie]

I am not convinced this is the Man of Steel sequel per say. But in essence The Avengers to Man of Steel's Iron Man.

 

[PacificBoy]

a genius billionaire expert martial artist and expert everything else

Sounds like Tony Stark.

 

[The Question]

Sounds like Tony Stark.

Yeah, but Tony is a neurotic egomaniacal drunk. Batman's just broody.

 

[PacificBoy]

Batman's just broody.

Who knows with this new Batman. He could just be mildly paranoid for all we know.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Who knows with this new Batman. He could just be mildly paranoid for all we know.

I don't mind that. He's paranoid in an interrogative sort of manner, if you know what I mean

 

[The Question]

I don't mind that. He's paranoid in an interrogative sort of manner, if you know what I mean

Is that a sexual innuendo?