All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 94

[John-An]

^ I actually felt for Loki and Zod, but not for Ra's and Bane.

I didn't feel like that for Bane (althought was a great villain).. only for Ras... but not as much like with Zod and crew...

 

[tomoe]

Well said.. Agreed this movie gave us as sympathy for the antagonists.. they felt the krypton destruction and the purpose made them more interesting.. something like many of the characters.. I felt that with Ras al ghul... I feel nothing like that with Loki (was good, better than other marvel villains in the mcu), just only as one as much villains that we´ve seen..
for me Sebastian Shaw, ZOD and army, Joker, Bane and Ras Al Ghul were the best comic book villains...

I felt nothing for Ras or Bane and had to look up who Sebastian Shaw was even though I quite liked X Men First Class. He was ok, I guess. As for Zod, I actually thought Terrance Stamp gave him more of a presence and charisma than Shannon did despite the fact that Shannon's Zod is more complex. I thought Loki was great in Thor but not so much in Avengers. So far, the memorable villains to me have been Joker and Loki. Doc Ock was pretty good too. The lamest one was Red Skull.

 

[John-An]

I felt nothing for Ras or Bane and had to look up who Sebastian Shaw was even though I quite liked X Men First Class. He was ok, I guess. As for Zod, I actually thought Terrance Stamp gave him more of a presence and charisma than Shannon did despite the fact that Shannon's Zod is more complex. I thought Loki was great in Thor but not so much in Avengers. So far, the memorable villains to me have been Joker and Loki. Doc Ock was pretty good too. The lamest one was Red Skull.

Well Stamp's Zod was totally different and it has it's charisma yeah.. but for me the new Zod is more badass, factual, not only as a simple villain..
P.D. I´ve never said that Bane made me fell as Zod or as Ras the sympathy..
but for me the memorable villains are Sebastian Shaw, Joker, Zod, Bane and Ras...

 

[John-An]

 

[Tempest]

Well, we just disagree on Loki then. I found him way more sympathetic and interesting than Zod. I was really looking forward to seeing Shannon's performance after hearing how great he was in roles like these but ended up disappointed in how flat he came across in the movie. Yes, his motives were understandable and all, but I didn't really feel much for him at all.

And I have no problem with a villain who hates on the hero or the movie or comic ending with a big bashfest between the two resulting in parts of city being destroyed. That is indeed how most of these things go. It is how it's executed that matters. I didn't have too big a problem with the Zod Superman fight; that wasn't where the biggest death toll occurred. I didn't particularly like that Superman had to kill, but can accept there was no other choice. But Superman being involved in Zod coming and killing thousands is really hard to swallow for me. It tells me the world would have been better without him, instead of the opposite. Yes the villain has come about because of the hero in other stories and movies too but when has it resulted in the loss of thousands and maybe hundreds of thousands of lives?

To the last part, I don't know. I don't track death tolls in movies about fictional people running amok. I know it's mean, but I really don't care. Yes, it's very sad that they die, but you know, they're fake. And the common people are in the film to die; that's their job, sad as it is to say. It paves the way for heroics and all that stuff by the good guys.

Honestly, I'm more fussed with Superman over the fact that he stole someone's clothes than I am with anything else he did in the film.

The next film will be even worse for you, I'm sure, since whatever happens in that film is probably entirely Superman's fault for existing. You can't win, can you?

 

[tomoe]

To the last part, I don't know. I don't track death tolls in movies about fictional people running amok. I know it's mean, but I really don't care. Yes, it's very sad that they die, but you know, they're fake. And the common people are in the film to die; that's their job, sad as it is to say. It paves the way for heroics and all that stuff by the good guys.

Honestly, I'm more fussed with Superman over the fact that he stole someone's clothes than I am with anything else he did in the film.

The next film will be even worse for you, I'm sure, since whatever happens in that film is probably entirely Superman's fault for existing. You can't win, can you?

I don't track it either and usually don't care much. But this one is noticeable to me because of the magnitude.

I'm sure the next film will indeed be worse for me. I have zero hope for Batman/Superman, since they are keeping Goyer and Snyder and consulting Miller. I will be absolutely thrilled if I am wrong and they actually deliver. I want Superman/Batman to be better received than Avengers 2 and Star Wars 7, and kick their @$$es at the box office. I just don't see it happening.

 

[John-An]

I don't track it either and usually don't care much. But this one is noticeable to me because of the magnitude.

I'm sure the next film will indeed be worse for me. I have zero hope for Batman/Superman, since they are keeping Goyer and Snyder and consulting Miller. I will be absolutely thrilled if I am wrong and they actually deliver. I want Superman/Batman to be better received than Avengers 2 and Star Wars 7, and kick their @$$es at the box office. I just don't see it happening.

keeping the team of the first movie snyder and goyer and maybe with other guy who polish some things... I can't wait to see world's finest but with my doubts.. MOS was awesome and hope this will be as well. Don't care about B.O.

 

[John-An]

To the last part, I don't know. I don't track death tolls in movies about fictional people running amok. I know it's mean, but I really don't care. Yes, it's very sad that they die, but you know, they're fake. And the common people are in the film to die; that's their job, sad as it is to say. It paves the way for heroics and all that stuff by the good guys.

Honestly, I'm more fussed with Superman over the fact that he stole someone's clothes than I am with anything else he did in the film.

The next film will be even worse for you, I'm sure, since whatever happens in that film is probably entirely Superman's fault for existing. You can't win, can you?

I know that man.. many people wants the donnerverse and don't let it go... don't wanna enjoy this one? Let´s enjoy the people who loved this movie... that's what only matters... in every realistic movie there´s gonna be casualties even with that kind of villains and the power they have.. I mean this movie is not as childish perfect as many others...

 

[The Guard]

The actual amount of people who died is really somewhat irrelevant in this movie.

The idea that people likely did die and become injured in Zod's attack is the important concept to be considered. Period.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I've only seen the film once, but I like to think that most people evacuated out of the buildings due to the fact that there was an alien spacecraft above the city. Yes, people died, but I like to think it wasn't that much.

 

[tomoe]

I know that man.. many people wants the donnerverse and don't let it go... don't wanna enjoy this one? Let´s enjoy the people who loved this movie... that's what only matters... in every realistic movie there´s gonna be casualties even with that kind of villains and the power they have.. I mean this movie is not as childish perfect as many others...

Just because someone doesn't like the movie, doesn't mean they can't let go of donnerverse. I see this come up over and over again and find it kind of insulting. I liked the donnerverse but definitely wasn't stuck on it or not wanting to let it go.

I followed this movie for 2 years, ever since Cavill was cast. I wanted to love MOS. I was ready to see a new version that didn't have campy humor and goofball Lex. I was willing to give Goyer and Snyder the benefit of the doubt despite my doubts about them. And those trailers actually got me excited. I just wanted a good exciting movie that made me love Superman all over again. And there were things I loved about MOS. I loved Cavill, the Krypton scenes, pretty much everything right up to that infuriating tornado scene. Then it went cold for me.

The casualties themselves don't bother me. It is realistic to have such destruction and death toll from a villain of Zod's power. It is Superman's involvement in bringing the monster who caused these casualties that bothers me. And then zero acknowledgement from anyone about the destruction. They never show him being smart or figuring anything out, it was always his muscles doing the talking, him being reckless sometimes to the point of stupidity. To me, MOS is a movie I would have liked a lot more if specific scenes and story points were taken out or changed. Those being:

Tornado scene, Clark bringing Zod to earth, Clark barreling Zod into downtown Smallville putting more lives in danger while his mom is still left with 3 kryptonians

It would have also been nice to see his xray vision and superhearing showcased more, maybe to look for survivors or something. And any acknowledgement of the destruction at all.

In some ways I find the movie more childesh, like Snyder built up these beautiful cities and sets and then BAM BAM BAM CRASH LETS DESTROY IT 'XPLOSIONS HAHAHA! I mean citywide destruction happens a lot in movies, and many of them are mindless but mindlessness was not what I wanted to see in a Superman movie, especially since the trailers built up the movie as a hopeful, emotional, and character driven one.

 

[John-An]

Just because someone doesn't like the movie, doesn't mean they can't let go of donnerverse. I see this come up over and over again and find it kind of insulting. I liked the donnerverse but definitely wasn't stuck on it or not wanting to let it go.

I followed this movie for 2 years, ever since Cavill was cast. I wanted to love MOS. I was ready to see a new version that didn't have campy humor and goofball Lex. I was willing to give Goyer and Snyder the benefit of the doubt despite my doubts about them. And those trailers actually got me excited. I just wanted a good exciting movie that made me love Superman all over again. And there were things I loved about MOS. I loved Cavill, the Krypton scenes, pretty much everything right up to that infuriating tornado scene. Then it went cold for me.

The casualties themselves don't bother me. It is realistic to have such destruction and death toll from a villain of Zod's power. It is Superman's involvement in bringing the monster who caused these casualties that bothers me. And then zero acknowledgement from anyone about the destruction. They never show him being smart or figuring anything out, it was always his muscles doing the talking, him being reckless sometimes to the point of stupidity. To me, MOS is a movie I would have liked a lot more if specific scenes and story points were taken out or changed. Those being:

Tornado scene, Clark bringing Zod to earth, Clark barreling Zod into downtown Smallville putting more lives in danger while his mom is still left with 3 kryptonians

It would have also been nice to see his xray vision and superhearing showcased more, maybe to look for survivors or something. And any acknowledgement of the destruction at all.

In some ways I find the movie more childesh, like Snyder built up these beautiful cities and sets and then BAM BAM BAM CRASH LETS DESTROY IT 'XPLOSIONS HAHAHA! I mean citywide destruction happens a lot in movies, and many of them are mindless but mindlessness was not what I wanted to see in a Superman movie, especially since the trailers built up the movie as a hopeful, emotional, and character driven one.

completely respected your point of view; but I need to give you some of mines:
*I was hyped and waiting too when they announced that chris nolan was godfathering new superman movie and to say it it exceeded my expectations...
*"Clark barreling Zod into downtown Smallville putting more lives in danger while his mom is still left with 3 kryptonians"
well man the team in charge did smth that was never done... a vulnerable superman emotionally... He´s not even Superman yet... He reacted as a human but the intention of superman wasn't to throw Zod into Smallville... that was a coincidence Superman didn´t know where they were gonna land cause at this time Clark only wanted to save his mom taking zod out of his reach (and as a consquence Superman knew that if he take down Zod the soldiers were going to be supporting Zod and not doing nothing until Zod gives an order... you know THE ARMY DOES IT...)
* "It is Superman's involvement in bringing the monster who caused these casualties that bothers me."
Well man that's a little unfair... Superman only put the key to know more about his people (he felt something is gonna happen) but that is a consequence but is not directly Superman's fault (he didn't knew about Zod tracking signals) I appreciate the responsability of Superman (and the way they handled... more like as if yeah I´m Zod and I came to Earth by playing chance and your solar system won.. I see that more realistic..
*"In some ways I find the movie more childesh, like Snyder built up these beautiful cities and sets and then BAM BAM BAM CRASH LETS DESTROY IT 'XPLOSIONS HAHAHA!"
you answered yourself... that kind of power and with Zod out of control... plus the military and the terraforming... but if you see it it was only a part of the city not all the city one thing that has this movie is not childish... its realistic in that way, that kind of power can't only damaged cars and little stuff
It is realistic to have such destruction and death toll from a villain of Zod's power.
*"It would have also been nice to see his xray vision and superhearing showcased more, maybe to look for survivors or something. And any acknowledgement of the destruction at all. "
(snyeder said that there was a scene but was cut that many people were evacuating the city before the w.e. attacked so we can assume there wasn't too much casualties)For me it will broke the Superman's scream and crying scene and the supes-lois moment, but we can assume Superman maybe used his powers like x-ray and strenght and superhearing but not in this film maybe they can use it to introduce the next movie like the WF movie intro or flashback things that could envolve that and will be more awesome to connect as TDK connect BB scene scarecrow in the begining...

"the trailers built up the movie as a hopeful, emotional, and character driven one."
and They give us that exactly.. the movie is hopeful yeah ( no matter how bad the humans were with clark he is the simbol of hope no matter that the military attacked superman he also saved the Col. Hardy... emotional? man if smth has this movie is emotions since the goodbye my son till the end to clark jr. with the cape made me cry...) but has emotions enough I mean I didn't want another Superman Returns too emotional in excess... and character driven was great (with some details) but for the cmb genre all the important characters has the perfect intro to explain us who the character were (even if in previous superman films we know who was each character), we didn´t want too much driven cause the movie could result boring and heavy, losing the fluency the movie has...
I know that you like the movie but some things bothered you.. the tornado scene for me was one of the most emotional I´ve ever seen and has a great message that Pa kent sacrified his life to Clarks destiny... but that´s your opinion... I have mine

You´ve said that Superman acted like only with it's muscles and you wanted to see a superman intelectual? Man I completely disagree with you on that... Supes is not a detective and yeah he used his mind.. to save the oil grig people, to plan with Lois the Kryptonians return to the phantom zone( in the scene in the air base Superman seemed like he know what they talking about nothing like you are saying...) and of course he doesn't need to do too much thinking he's different from batman he's a simbol of hope that showed to Lois in the ship, saving Col. Hardy, the oil rig (althought he hasn't the suit) inspiring other people maybe other heroes... that's what Superman MEANS
I loved the movie... the story was great not perfect but Goyer and Nolan did a great job.. I liked the way the story was told like flashbacks things BB STYLE you know...but yeah it has its flaws... I also like the Donnerverse I and II only... but some people think that the action doesn't have consecuences and the superman that nothing happens was from the 70´s that no casualties no FACTUAL.. that´s because I loved the movie because even if he´s Superman he can't save everyone and that could be exploted in a good way

 

[sf2]

What is it for?

 

[Eggyman]

What is it for?

To show what Superman would look like *********ing in a waterfall.

 

[sf2]

Just because someone doesn't like the movie, doesn't mean they can't let go of donnerverse. I see this come up over and over again and find it kind of insulting. I liked the donnerverse but definitely wasn't stuck on it or not wanting to let it go.

I followed this movie for 2 years, ever since Cavill was cast. I wanted to love MOS. I was ready to see a new version that didn't have campy humor and goofball Lex. I was willing to give Goyer and Snyder the benefit of the doubt despite my doubts about them. And those trailers actually got me excited. I just wanted a good exciting movie that made me love Superman all over again. And there were things I loved about MOS. I loved Cavill, the Krypton scenes, pretty much everything right up to that infuriating tornado scene. Then it went cold for me.

The casualties themselves don't bother me. It is realistic to have such destruction and death toll from a villain of Zod's power. It is Superman's involvement in bringing the monster who caused these casualties that bothers me. And then zero acknowledgement from anyone about the destruction. They never show him being smart or figuring anything out, it was always his muscles doing the talking, him being reckless sometimes to the point of stupidity. To me, MOS is a movie I would have liked a lot more if specific scenes and story points were taken out or changed. Those being:

Tornado scene, Clark bringing Zod to earth, Clark barreling Zod into downtown Smallville putting more lives in danger while his mom is still left with 3 kryptonians

It would have also been nice to see his xray vision and superhearing showcased more, maybe to look for survivors or something. And any acknowledgement of the destruction at all.

In some ways I find the movie more childesh, like Snyder built up these beautiful cities and sets and then BAM BAM BAM CRASH LETS DESTROY IT 'XPLOSIONS HAHAHA! I mean citywide destruction happens a lot in movies, and many of them are mindless but mindlessness was not what I wanted to see in a Superman movie, especially since the trailers built up the movie as a hopeful, emotional, and character driven one.

One of the the funniest posts I read. I could only agree that the pa kent death scene is a little poor setup.
I think u have investing too many biased interpretation into all the scenes.

 

[Smashlilman]

completely respected your point of view; but I need to give you some of mines:
*I was hyped and waiting too when they announced that chris nolan was godfathering new superman movie and to say it it exceeded my expectations...
*"Clark barreling Zod into downtown Smallville putting more lives in danger while his mom is still left with 3 kryptonians"
well man the team in charge did smth that was never done... a vulnerable superman emotionally... He´s not even Superman yet... He reacted as a human but the intention of superman wasn't to throw Zod into Smallville... that was a coincidence Superman didn´t know where they were gonna land cause at this time Clark only wanted to save his mom taking zod out of his reach (and as a consquence Superman knew that if he take down Zod the soldiers were going to be supporting Zod and not doing nothing until Zod gives an order... you know THE ARMY DOES IT...)
* "It is Superman's involvement in bringing the monster who caused these casualties that bothers me."
Well man that's a little unfair... Superman only put the key to know more about his people (he felt something is gonna happen) but that is a consequence but is not directly Superman's fault (he didn't knew about Zod tracking signals) I appreciate the responsability of Superman (and the way they handled... more like as if yeah I´m Zod and I came to Earth by playing chance and your solar system won.. I see that more realistic..
*"In some ways I find the movie more childesh, like Snyder built up these beautiful cities and sets and then BAM BAM BAM CRASH LETS DESTROY IT 'XPLOSIONS HAHAHA!"
you answered yourself... that kind of power and with Zod out of control... plus the military and the terraforming... but if you see it it was only a part of the city not all the city one thing that has this movie is not childish... its realistic in that way, that kind of power can't only damaged cars and little stuff
It is realistic to have such destruction and death toll from a villain of Zod's power.
*"It would have also been nice to see his xray vision and superhearing showcased more, maybe to look for survivors or something. And any acknowledgement of the destruction at all. "
(snyeder said that there was a scene but was cut that many people were evacuating the city before the w.e. attacked so we can assume there wasn't too much casualties)For me it will broke the Superman's scream and crying scene and the supes-lois moment, but we can assume Superman maybe used his powers like x-ray and strenght and superhearing but not in this film maybe they can use it to introduce the next movie like the WF movie intro or flashback things that could envolve that and will be more awesome to connect as TDK connect BB scene scarecrow in the begining...

"the trailers built up the movie as a hopeful, emotional, and character driven one."
and They give us that exactly.. the movie is hopeful yeah ( no matter how bad the humans were with clark he is the simbol of hope no matter that the military attacked superman also he also saved the Col. Hardy... emotional? man if smth has this movie is emotions since the goodbye my son till the end to clark jr. with the cape made me cry...) but has emotions enough I mean I didn't want another Superman Returns too emotional in excess... and character driven was great (with some details) but for the cmb genre all the important character has the perfect intro to explain us who the character were (even if in previous superman films we know who was each character), we didn´t want too much driven cause the movie could result boring and heavy, losing the fluency the movie has...
I know that you like the movie but some things bothered you.. the tornado scene for me was one of the most emotional I´ve ever seen and has a great message that Pa kent sacrified his life to Clarks destiny... but that´s your opinion... I have mine

I loved the movie... the story was great not perfect but Goyer and Nolan did a great job.. I liked the way the story was told like flashbacks things BB STYLE you know...but yeah it has its flaws... I also like the Donnerverse I and II only... but some people think that the action doesn't have consecuences and the superman that nothing happens was from the 70´s that no casualties no FACTUAL.. that´s because I loved the movie because even if he´s Superman he can't save everyone and that could be exploted in a good way

I can't stand the hold the Donnerverse has on people. Those people are just angry and mad because......

We got this

instead of this.

 

[sf2]

Lol.

And after watching a few poor movies. (WWZ, TW, n PJ2) I just appreciate more MOS. Grad that we r getting a truly great movie.

 

[smallville fan]

I've only seen the film once, but I like to think that most people evacuated out of the buildings due to the fact that there was an alien spacecraft above the city. Yes, people died, but I like to think it wasn't that much.

You'd think people would've at least left the city and ran for the hills the minute the Zod video was played to the world.

On another note, so I was thinking about the infamous neck-snapping scene again and then I was reading the Injustice: Gods Among Us comic where Superman gets duped by the Joker and kills Lois inadvertently as well as reading the latest issue of The Adventures of Superman(where Superman gets duped by Luthor into stopping all these different disasters only to miss one where somebody dies) and I came to this thought.

Is one of Superman's character flaws is that he's a tad easier to fool and manipulate?(In no way I'm saying that Superman is dumb, stupid, unintelligent at all as people like Frank Miller paint him to be. What I'm saying is, do you think Superman's the type to leap before he looks while for Batman, it's the other way around? Especially when lives are in danger?)

Did Zod use Clark's love of Earth's people to manipulate him into killing him just to haunt Clark from the grave, as said in the classic line by Faora that "A good death is its own reward"?

Would any of you say it's a valid interpretation?

 

[Smashlilman]

You'd think people would've at least left the city and ran for the hills the minute the Zod video was played to the world.

On another note, so I was thinking about the infamous neck-snapping scene again and then I was reading the Injustice: Gods Among Us comic where Superman gets duped by the Joker and kills Lois inadvertently as well as reading the latest issue of The Adventures of Superman(where Superman gets duped by Luthor into stopping all these different disasters only to miss one where somebody dies) and I came to this thought.

Is one of Superman's character flaws is that he's a tad easier to fool and manipulate?(In no way I'm saying that Superman is dumb, stupid, unintelligent at all as people like Frank Miller paint him to be. What I'm saying is, do you think Superman's the type to leap before he looks while for Batman, it's the other way around? Especially when lives are in danger?)

Did Zod use Clark's love of Earth's people to manipulate him into killing him just to haunt Clark from the grave, as said in the classic line by Faora that "A good death is its own reward"?

Would any of you say it's a valid interpretation?

The first wave of people left when the craft showed up. The second left when the world engine was turned on but by then the traffic was jammed. So people where left on the street running from the world engine gravity wave by foot. So basically all the Building where abandon. When you go see Man of Steel again, Look at when Zod throws superman through those building. The camera shows superman flying throw the last one from inside of the building and you can see that it was completely empty.

 

[smallville fan]

The first wave of people left when the craft showed up. The second left when the world engine was turned on but by then the traffic was jammed. So people where left on the street running from the world engine gravity wave by foot. So basically all the Building where abandon. When you go see Man of Steel again, Look at when Zod throws superman through those building. The camera shows superman flying throw the last one from inside of the building and you can see that it was completely empty.

I know lol.

 

[Smallville13]

One thing that bugs me about this scene is how his hair stays perfect under the weight of the force. Wouldn't it flatten down...

 

[DIRECTOR]

One thing that bugs me about this scene is how his hair stays perfect under the weight of the force. Wouldn't it flatten down...

what's smart is that his hair is also has super strength. so, not it won't flatten, like his body didn't flatten.

 

[John-An]

I like the Superman:TM and Superman II filmsbut I have to admit that this movie is far superior IMO...

 

[John-An]

I can't stand the hold the Donnerverse has on people. Those people are just angry and mad because......

We got this

instead of this.

IMAGINE WHAT PURISTS WOULD SAY IF SUPERMAN FIGHTS WITH DOOMSDAY? too much destruction why he didn't save all the people fighting with a unstoppable monster and Doomsday didn't give him a break...

Like with zod... if Superman would have stopped to save people Zod would take the chance to kill more people or even Superman... man Zod didn't give him a break t:

 

[John-An]

One thing that bugs me about this scene is how his hair stays perfect under the weight of the force. Wouldn't it flatten down...

If you look closely.. the hair moves but just a little...and his hair also has super strength. so, not it won't flatten, like his body didn't flatten...