All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 94

[John-An]

The first wave of people left when the craft showed up. The second left when the world engine was turned on but by then the traffic was jammed. So people where left on the street running from the world engine gravity wave by foot. So basically all the Building where abandon. When you go see Man of Steel again, Look at when Zod throws superman through those building. The camera shows superman flying throw the last one from inside of the building and you can see that it was completely empty.

Totally agree.. many people doesn't know that.. but the buildings were abandoned and there wasn't too much casualties...

 

[Lead Cenobite]

I can't stand the hold the Donnerverse has on people. Those people are just angry and mad because......

We got this

instead of this.

I'm a Donner fan, and I'm pretty sure I didn't want a movie about him smashing a car against a rock. Jackass.

 

[John-An]

Just because someone doesn't like the movie, doesn't mean they can't let go of donnerverse. I see this come up over and over again and find it kind of insulting. I liked the donnerverse but definitely wasn't stuck on it or not wanting to let it go.

I followed this movie for 2 years, ever since Cavill was cast. I wanted to love MOS. I was ready to see a new version that didn't have campy humor and goofball Lex. I was willing to give Goyer and Snyder the benefit of the doubt despite my doubts about them. And those trailers actually got me excited. I just wanted a good exciting movie that made me love Superman all over again. And there were things I loved about MOS. I loved Cavill, the Krypton scenes, pretty much everything right up to that infuriating tornado scene. Then it went cold for me.

The casualties themselves don't bother me. It is realistic to have such destruction and death toll from a villain of Zod's power. It is Superman's involvement in bringing the monster who caused these casualties that bothers me. And then zero acknowledgement from anyone about the destruction. They never show him being smart or figuring anything out, it was always his muscles doing the talking, him being reckless sometimes to the point of stupidity. To me, MOS is a movie I would have liked a lot more if specific scenes and story points were taken out or changed. Those being:

Tornado scene, Clark bringing Zod to earth, Clark barreling Zod into downtown Smallville putting more lives in danger while his mom is still left with 3 kryptonians

It would have also been nice to see his xray vision and superhearing showcased more, maybe to look for survivors or something. And any acknowledgement of the destruction at all.

In some ways I find the movie more childesh, like Snyder built up these beautiful cities and sets and then BAM BAM BAM CRASH LETS DESTROY IT 'XPLOSIONS HAHAHA! I mean citywide destruction happens a lot in movies, and many of them are mindless but mindlessness was not what I wanted to see in a Superman movie, especially since the trailers built up the movie as a hopeful, emotional, and character driven one.

completely respected your point of view; but I need to give you some of mines:
*I was hyped and waiting too when they announced that chris nolan was godfathering new superman movie and to say it it exceeded my expectations...
*"Clark barreling Zod into downtown Smallville putting more lives in danger while his mom is still left with 3 kryptonians"
well man the team in charge did smth that was never done... a vulnerable superman emotionally... He´s not even Superman yet... He reacted as a human but the intention of superman wasn't to throw Zod into Smallville... that was a coincidence Superman didn´t know where they were gonna land cause at this time Clark only wanted to save his mom taking zod out of his reach (and as a consquence Superman knew that if he take down Zod the soldiers were going to be supporting Zod and not doing nothing until Zod gives an order... you know THE ARMY DOES IT...)
* "It is Superman's involvement in bringing the monster who caused these casualties that bothers me."
Well man that's a little unfair... Superman only put the key to know more about his people (he felt something is gonna happen) but that is a consequence but is not directly Superman's fault (he didn't knew about Zod tracking signals) I appreciate the responsability of Superman (and the way they handled... more like as if yeah I´m Zod and I came to Earth by playing chance and your solar system won.. I see that more realistic..
*"In some ways I find the movie more childesh, like Snyder built up these beautiful cities and sets and then BAM BAM BAM CRASH LETS DESTROY IT 'XPLOSIONS HAHAHA!"
you answered yourself... that kind of power and with Zod out of control... plus the military and the terraforming... but if you see it it was only a part of the city not all the city one thing that has this movie is not childish... its realistic in that way, that kind of power can't only damaged cars and little stuff
It is realistic to have such destruction and death toll from a villain of Zod's power.
*"It would have also been nice to see his xray vision and superhearing showcased more, maybe to look for survivors or something. And any acknowledgement of the destruction at all. "
"The first wave of people left when the craft showed up. The second left when the world engine was turned on but by then the traffic was jammed. So people where left on the street running from the world engine gravity wave by foot. So basically all the Building where abandon. When you go see Man of Steel again, Look at when Zod throws superman through those building. The camera shows superman flying throw the last one from inside of the building and you can see that it was completely empty." that also proves that there wasn't too much casualties.. at least not too much as you are thinking.
(snyder said that there was a scene but was cut that many people were evacuating the city before the w.e. attacked so we can assume there wasn't too much casualties)For me it will broke the Superman's scream and crying scene and the supes-lois moment, but we can assume Superman maybe used his powers like x-ray and strenght and superhearing to save people trapped in the wreckage or saving war innocents or natural disasters, but not in this film maybe they can use it to introduce the next movie like the WF movie intro or flashback things that could envolve that and will be more awesome to connect as TDK connect BB scarecrow scene at the begining...

"the trailers built up the movie as a hopeful, emotional, and character driven one."
and They give us that exactly.. the movie is hopeful yeah ( no matter how bad the humans were with clark he is the simbol of hope no matter that the military attacked superman he also saved the Col. Hardy... emotional? man if smth has this movie is emotions since the goodbye my son till the end to clark jr. with the cape made me cry...) but has emotions enough I mean I didn't want another Superman Returns too emotional in excess... and character driven was great (with some details) but for the cmb genre all the important characters has the perfect intro to explain us who the character were (even if in previous superman films we know who was each character), we didn´t want too much driven cause the movie could result boring and heavy, losing the fluency the movie has...
I know that you like the movie but some things bothered you.. the tornado scene for me was one of the most emotional I´ve ever seen and has a great message that Pa kent sacrified his life to Clarks destiny... but that´s your opinion... I have mine

You´ve said that Superman acted like only with it's muscles and you wanted to see a superman intelectual? Man I completely disagree with you on that... Supes is not a detective and yeah he used his mind.. to save the oil grig people, to plan with Lois the Kryptonians return to the phantom zone( in the scene in the air base Superman seemed like he know what they talking about nothing like you are saying...) and of course he doesn't need to do too much thinking he's different from batman he's a simbol of hope that showed to Lois in the ship, saving Col. Hardy, the oil rig (althought he hasn't the suit) inspiring other people maybe other heroes... that's what Superman MEANS
I loved the movie... the story was great not perfect but Goyer and Nolan did a great job.. I liked the way the story was told like flashbacks things BB STYLE you know...but yeah it has its flaws... I also like the Donnerverse I and II only... but some people think that the action doesn't have consecuences and the superman that nothing happens was from the 70´s that no casualties no FACTUAL.. that´s because I loved the movie because even if he´s Superman he can't save everyone and that could be exploted in a good way

 

[John Lambert]

You'd think people would've at least left the city and ran for the hills the minute the Zod video was played to the world.

On another note, so I was thinking about the infamous neck-snapping scene again and then I was reading the Injustice: Gods Among Us comic where Superman gets duped by the Joker and kills Lois inadvertently as well as reading the latest issue of The Adventures of Superman(where Superman gets duped by Luthor into stopping all these different disasters only to miss one where somebody dies) and I came to this thought.

Is one of Superman's character flaws is that he's a tad easier to fool and manipulate?(In no way I'm saying that Superman is dumb, stupid, unintelligent at all as people like Frank Miller paint him to be. What I'm saying is, do you think Superman's the type to leap before he looks while for Batman, it's the other way around? Especially when lives are in danger?)

Did Zod use Clark's love of Earth's people to manipulate him into killing him just to haunt Clark from the grave, as said in the classic line by Faora that "A good death is its own reward"?

Would any of you say it's a valid interpretation?

Why run for the hills? How do you know where Zod will strike?

 

[Tempest]

You'd think people would've at least left the city and ran for the hills the minute the Zod video was played to the world.

On another note, so I was thinking about the infamous neck-snapping scene again and then I was reading the Injustice: Gods Among Us comic where Superman gets duped by the Joker and kills Lois inadvertently as well as reading the latest issue of The Adventures of Superman(where Superman gets duped by Luthor into stopping all these different disasters only to miss one where somebody dies) and I came to this thought.

Is one of Superman's character flaws is that he's a tad easier to fool and manipulate?(In no way I'm saying that Superman is dumb, stupid, unintelligent at all as people like Frank Miller paint him to be. What I'm saying is, do you think Superman's the type to leap before he looks while for Batman, it's the other way around? Especially when lives are in danger?)

Did Zod use Clark's love of Earth's people to manipulate him into killing him just to haunt Clark from the grave, as said in the classic line by Faora that "A good death is its own reward"?

Would any of you say it's a valid interpretation?

Superman tends to believe the best of everybody, whereas Batman is suspicious of everyone, even the people he partners with.

And you are right -- Superman is more emotional, whereas Batman is more analytical. Depending on the villain, they might find it easier to predict Superman's actions and reactions to certain situations.

It was clear to me that Zod wanted Clark to kill him. He was going to simply go and murder as many people as he could until Clark put him down. And you may be right -- Zod was trying to make Clark suffer. What better way than to force someone to choose between lives? And what better way than to force someone into a situation where they would have to do something terrible?

One thing that bugs me about this scene is how his hair stays perfect under the weight of the force. Wouldn't it flatten down...

That's the thing that bothers you? -grin- There are so many things, that I have to remind myself that it's Hollywood. They do everything wrong.

But it's ok, I still love this movie.

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

One thing that bugs me about this scene is how his hair stays perfect under the weight of the force. Wouldn't it flatten down...

Do you seriously let little things like that bother you? Wow....I just.......wow. That's all I can say. I don't understand people like that.

 

[Tempest]

Do you seriously let little things like that bother you? Wow....I just.......wow. That's all I can say. I don't understand people like that.

I don't think it actually bothers them, bothers them. I think it was more of a tongue-in-cheek comment.

 

[smallville fan]

Superman tends to believe the best of everybody, whereas Batman is suspicious of everyone, even the people he partners with.

And you are right -- Superman is more emotional, whereas Batman is more analytical. Depending on the villain, they might find it easier to predict Superman's actions and reactions to certain situations.

It was clear to me that Zod wanted Clark to kill him. He was going to simply go and murder as many people as he could until Clark put him down. And you may be right -- Zod was trying to make Clark suffer. What better way than to force someone to choose between lives? And what better way than to force someone into a situation where they would have to do something terrible?

I thought as much. It was a really ballsy way they showed it too. I may be over-thinking on this, but it was often said that Superman often somewhat reflects the general attitudes of our times(as I heard at the Superman panel at SDCC this year). Do any of you think that the fact that he was ok with going the route of killing a mass murderer like Zod is somewhat reflective of us as people, that we are ok with having a mass murderer killed off ala Judge,Jury, Executioner style like many others who've been praised as heroes for killing off mass murderers? Sorry if I tread on sensitive ground here.

 

[John-An]

I thought as much. It was a really ballsy way they showed it too. I may be over-thinking on this, but it was often said that Superman often somewhat reflects the general attitudes of our times(as I heard at the Superman panel at SDCC this year). Do any of you think that the fact that he was ok with going the route of killing a mass murderer like Zod is somewhat reflective of us as people, that we are ok with having a mass murderer killed off ala Judge,Jury, Executioner style like many others who've been praised as heroes for killing off mass murderers? Sorry if I tread on sensitive ground here.

Well the last part just don't agree I mean if he killed Zod.. he had no choice... It was him or the family and the rest of the world... the face that put Superman before he did it was like I don´t wanna do this but the family is innocent and doesnt deserve this... and the reaction he had after the yell was nothing like as a vigilante or a executioner... and with superman's reaction and the snyder quotes we can assume that He will never do that again and he'll take another choice with that experience.. but yeah there's gonna be consequences in one hand we have Lois that will write the story of Superman´s heroic acts and future Supes savings that will put him as a hero, but maybe Bats will argue with Supes about that... and Luthor is gonna take this as an advantage that's for sure...

 

[sf2]

I'm a Donner fan, and I'm pretty sure I didn't want a movie about him smashing a car against a rock. Jackass.

It's just an example. That people can't digest the madness, mutitude, complex, and extensive*actions. The simplier action like in SR... plainly saving a plane, or a car or a falling globe or putting off fire... they can digest and appreciate better.

 

[smallville fan]

I'm a Donner fan, and I'm pretty sure I didn't want a movie about him smashing a car against a rock. Jackass.

I think what he was referring to was the anti-climatic scene shown here in Stalkerman: The Movie

 

[tomoe]

completely respected your point of view; but I need to give you some of mines:
*"Clark barreling Zod into downtown Smallville putting more lives in danger while his mom is still left with 3 kryptonians"
well man the team in charge did smth that was never done... a vulnerable superman emotionally... He´s not even Superman yet... He reacted as a human but the intention of superman wasn't to throw Zod into Smallville... that was a coincidence Superman didn´t know where they were gonna land cause at this time Clark only wanted to save his mom taking zod out of his reach (and as a consquence Superman knew that if he take down Zod the soldiers were going to be supporting Zod and not doing nothing until Zod gives an order... you know THE ARMY DOES IT...)

Hmm I never thought about the soldiers will not do anything without Zod's orders. That makes me feel a bit better about Superman leaving Zod's minions behind with his mother, though I still think it was a rather risky assumption for him to make. I still think him being emotional is no excuse to put people in danger though. That he didn't think about or see where he will end up is just one example of him using his muscles instead of his brain.

* "It is Superman's involvement in bringing the monster who caused these casualties that bothers me."
Well man that's a little unfair... Superman only put the key to know more about his people (he felt something is gonna happen) but that is a consequence but is not directly Superman's fault (he didn't knew about Zod tracking signals) I appreciate the responsability of Superman (and the way they handled... more like as if yeah I´m Zod and I came to Earth by playing chance and your solar system won.. I see that more realistic..

Yes, I know it's unfair. I would have done the same thing. Probably anyone would have. I still don't like it.

"The first wave of people left when the craft showed up. The second left when the world engine was turned on but by then the traffic was jammed. So people where left on the street running from the world engine gravity wave by foot. So basically all the Building where abandon. When you go see Man of Steel again, Look at when Zod throws superman through those building. The camera shows superman flying throw the last one from inside of the building and you can see that it was completely empty." that also proves that there wasn't too much casualties.. at least not too much as you are thinking.

That's what I would like to think happened... but they didn't show it, so it just leaves people to assume what they like, which is that thousands to hundreds of thousands of people died when those buildings came down. I really wish they had shown people evacuating, or even showed the military telling people to evacuate. Snyder should have left that scene in. I also was never under the impression that the Zod Superman fight killed thousands. I didn't get the sense that many people died at all from their fight It was the World Machine that would have caused the most casualties.

You´ve said that Superman acted like only with it's muscles and you wanted to see a superman intelectual? Man I completely disagree with you on that... Supes is not a detective and yeah he used his mind.. to save the oil grig people, to plan with Lois the Kryptonians return to the phantom zone( in the scene in the air base Superman seemed like he know what they talking about nothing like you are saying...) and of course he doesn't need to do too much thinking he's different from batman he's a simbol of hope that showed to Lois in the ship, saving Col. Hardy, the oil rig (althought he hasn't the suit) inspiring other people maybe other heroes... that's what Superman MEANS

I loved the movie... the story was great not perfect but Goyer and Nolan did a great job.. I liked the way the story was told like flashbacks things BB STYLE you know...but yeah it has its flaws... I also like the Donnerverse I and II only... but some people think that the action doesn't have consecuences and the superman that nothing happens was from the 70´s that no casualties no FACTUAL.. that´s because I loved the movie because even if he´s Superman he can't save everyone and that could be exploted in a good way

I don't think he did anything particularly intelligent at the oil rig or saving Colonel Hardy. What's so smart about smashing someone away from someone who's about to be killed by them? But those scenarios didn't require much intelligence anyways, just what was needed to save them. I don't need Superman to be a genius or intellectual, but I would like him to seem smart, or see him outsmart the enemy, or think outside the box. At least once. He and Lois were told what to do by Jorel, they didn't figure much out themselves, and in this case it probably wouldn't have been realistic for them to figure it out themselves but it didn't have to be written that way. What if there had been no Jorel? Would everyone have been screwed then? Even them all working it out together with Dr. Hamilton would have shown his intelligence more. And I know you found the tornado scene emotional but I just kept thinking how dumb he was for not running over to his dad in normal speed to help him. The way the scene was, it didn't seem like he needed to use his powers at all.

I agree the action should have consequences, and MOS did show what would happen, but since all that destruction was basically ignored, it made it seem like the consequences didn't matter. I've also always thought that 'we'll address it in the sequel' excuse was a copout one, basically saying 'we didn't think of it in this one'. I think movies should be able to stand alone and not rely on a sequel to make it better.

I'm glad you loved the movie. I liked a lot about it myself. Hopefully I will love the next one.

 

[Super Kal]

I personally like both respectively... Each of them have their strengths and weaknesses, as all movies do.

 

[John-An]

Hmm I never thought about the soldiers will not do anything without Zod's orders. That makes me feel a bit better about Superman leaving Zod's minions behind with his mother, though I still think it was a rather risky assumption for him to make. I still think him being emotional is no excuse to put people in danger though. That he didn't think about or see where he will end up is just one example of him using his muscles instead of his brain.

Well he has no experience being a hero or thinking about the possible casualties at such speed hitting Zod angry about how they were threatening his mom and dealing with such a threat.. he only wanted to take Zod and army away from his mother... if you see in the fight with Faora and nam-ek he wanted to get the kryptonians off smallville but they were pretty though and they didn't permit Supes to took off... so yeah in many ocassions he used his brain but the threat didn't make it easy... and if you notice taking the world engine down was his idea (nothing Jor-el nor Lois told him just Jor-el explanation in the scout ship that he mentioned the terraforming) that the terraforming was because the world engine working with the Black Zero and if he shut down the world engine the terraforming will stop... even if the enviroment make him weaker and the W.E. defenses make him push his limits... the courage to save the world was what made him like SUPERMAN...

Yes, I know it's unfair. I would have done the same thing. Probably anyone would have. I still don't like it.

That's your opinion... totally respected but that doesn´t mean that it was the best scenario and more factual

That's what I would like to think happened... but they didn't show it, so it just leaves people to assume what they like, which is that thousands to hundreds of thousands of people died when those buildings came down. I really wish they had shown people evacuating, or even showed the military telling people to evacuate. Snyder should have left that scene in. I also was never under the impression that the Zod Superman fight killed thousands. I didn't get the sense that many people died at all from their fight It was the World Machine that would have caused the most casualties.

The bridge thing they didn't show but people evacuating and leaving by foot was showed not by the military.. they were pretty busy attacking the black zero.. but if you see closely there was policial forces evacuating people when Daily planet people evacuated...
Actually only was one pretty came down the one that the airplane crashed.. so yeah that leaved hundreds casualties (injured or killed) but in that case Superman couldn´t done anything cause he was taking the world engine down ( a good choice cause if he didn't done that none of the efforts from the military and trying to save people would been much worse and much cassualties if the terraforming continued)
but that sense of responsability will make Superman trying to save the more he can in future scenarios...

I don't think he did anything particularly intelligent at the oil rig or saving Colonel Hardy. What's so smart about smashing someone away from someone who's about to be killed by them? But those scenarios didn't require much intelligence anyways, just what was needed to save them. I don't need Superman to be a genius or intellectual, but I would like him to seem smart, or see him outsmart the enemy, or think outside the box. At least once. He and Lois were told what to do by Jorel, they didn't figure much out themselves, and in this case it probably wouldn't have been realistic for them to figure it out themselves but it didn't have to be written that way. What if there had been no Jorel? Would everyone have been screwed then? Even them all working it out together with Dr. Hamilton would have shown his intelligence more. And I know you found the tornado scene emotional but I just kept thinking how dumb he was for not running over to his dad in normal speed to help him. The way the scene was, it didn't seem like he needed to use his powers at all.

I see Jor-el more like a support cause he designed the ship and know the mechanisms and all the Phantom discs consequences but how Superman should know if he was only a baby on Krypton.. but when he was speaking with the military about collading the two phantom discs to open the phantom zone even Superman make Hammilton think and he knew exactly what could happen a singularity created like a worm hole... I saw in that scene Superman as an intelligent guy...
as you said using his brain to put the enemies down sounded like Batman.. cause he has no powers and his more important power is his brain.. Superman only needed to use his courage and his powers and thinking the best way to use them... I´ve said only he used his intelligence to save the oil rig people... Superman thought how to enter without damage more the construction that's what Superman does... think the best way to enter the building and the better way to evacuated.. not to mention the courage he had to save the helicopter that was pretty supermanish...
I don´t agree with you on the tornado.. you know at which speed the tornado goes? pretty fast no way he could save his dad without using his powers the tornado will suckle then and that will show Superman´s powers to all the people.. if the tornado won't suckle them or if they survived which is totally impossible, that will show Clark´s powers and all the sacrifices from Pa and Ma kent would be nothing.... I liked the way they handle showing the sacrifice from Pa kent in a more realistic way to make him become a force for good was great... but is each tastes...
I ´ve never said that saving Col. Hardy was too much intellingence but if you notice he hit Faora and disable his helmet (thinking as she will have the same reaction and will be vulnerable) that was Superman thinking the best to take down Faora without damaging anything else... so yeah he used his intelligence... I´ve said Superman showed himself as a simbol of hope in the oil rig, saving Col. Hardy and saving the world (but with Lois helping writting the incidents)...

I agree the action should have consequences, and MOS did show what would happen, but since all that destruction was basically ignored, it made it seem like the consequences didn't matter. I've also always thought that 'we'll address it in the sequel' excuse was a copout one, basically saying 'we didn't think of it in this one'. I think movies should be able to stand alone and not rely on a sequel to make it better.

I´m fine that they didn't show too much people hurt... except from Jenny that was adressed as a casualtie from the incident (what a good scene) showing that the humanity (perry staying there supporting her and not running) has good inside them and that was directly a consequence from the destruction... so I see your argument pointless...
They´ll adress on the sequel and I don´t think that´s bad cause they´re connecting facts from one to another make us feel that both movies and it's consequences were connected in some way.... like let us think (oh yeah they didn´t forgot about the consequences from the first movie) giving importance to the ending from the first one... the way it end was great and as I said the savings from Supes in metropolis destruction after the scene from Zod searching for people or helping military where to find the people even on a T.V. as a news report will give the next movie an excellent start.

Respect your opinion and I´m also glad that you liked the movie... been a pleasure arguing with you...

 

[sf2]

I think what he was referring to was the anti-climatic scene shown here in Stalkerman: The Movie

This isn't the anti climatic scene.
The perfect example of an anti climatic scene is the scene after superman fled away from metropolis after the battle with the 3 krpytonians in SII.

 

[Showtime]

This isn't the anti climatic scene.
The perfect example of an anti climatic scene is the scene after superman fled away from metropolis after the battle with the 3 krpytonians in SII.

In my mind he was intentionally trying to guide them away from further destroying the city and it's inhabitants.

 

[John-An]

In my mind he was intentionally trying to guide them away from further destroying the city and it's inhabitants.

Well I guess that Zod and the other 2 weren't following him so I guess this wasn't a good move until they went to the DP again and Lex told them where the fortress was.. maybe Zod ursa and non would cause too much casualties only for the pleasure of doing it....

 

[Smashlilman]

In my mind he was intentionally trying to guide them away from further destroying the city and it's inhabitants.

As much as I love/loved Superman the Movie and Superman 2 that never made any sense. After Superman left the armed forces should have moved in to fight the Krytonians. Zod should have annihilated the armed forces and thousands of them in order to force the government to subjugate to his will. Then he should have waited until Superman popped back up because he knew he cared about the people. More hacok would have drew him back out of hiding. It's was like the intelligence of the villain characters in STM and SM:II where dumbed down in order to make Superman look smart by comparison.

I didn't like the hold thing when Kryptonians would fight Superman they would cause a disaster and watch superman save people. While that's going on they would talk about him saving people and laugh instead of attacking him when he wasn't paying attention. The only time they actually did that was when Ursa threw the Manhole Cover.

 

[roach]

As much as I love/loved Superman the Movie and Superman 2 that never made any sense. After Superman left the armed forces should have moved in to fight the Krytonians. Zod should have annihilated the armed forces and thousands of them in order to force the government to subjugate to his will. Then he should have waited until Superman popped back up because he knew he cared about the people. More hacok would have drew him back out of hiding. It's was like the intelligence of the villain characters in STM and SM:II where dumbed down in order to make Superman look smart by comparison.

I didn't like the hold thing when Kryptonians would fight Superman they would cause a disaster and watch superman save people. While that's going on they would talk about him saving people and laugh instead of attacking him when he wasn't paying attention. The only time they actually did that was when Ursa threw the Manhole Cover.

The armed forces weren't going to do a thing....they were defeated in Texas and were declared the rulers of the US

 

[Smashlilman]

The armed forces weren't going to do a thing....they were defeated in Texas and were declared the rulers of the US

But they gave up too easily. I'm talking about a full scale war using our most advance equipment to take them down. The government wouldn't have give up until they realized there was 100% no hope. Like how the world council was debating with Nick Fury about what do in the Avengers. Where after we used our most high tech weapons against them the government would have been debating on where or not we should use nukes.

^ my grammar is terrible so forgive me.

 

[roach]

But they gave up too easily. I'm talking about a full scale war using our most advance equipment to take them down. The government wouldn't have give up until they realized there was 100% no hope. Like how the world council was debating with Nick Fury about what do in the Avengers. Where after we used our most high tech weapons against them the government would have been debating on where or not we should use nukes.

^ my grammar is terrible so forgive me.

The world council trying to nuke NY was stupid IMO.

Zod and company defeated the army and Texas....they flew to Washington and captured the president. Trying to send more troops against them would have been stupid.

 

[tomoe]

I don´t agree with you on the tornado.. you know at which speed the tornado goes? pretty fast no way he could save his dad without using his powers the tornado will suckle then and that will show Superman´s powers to all the people.. if the tornado won't suckle them or if they survived which is totally impossible, that will show Clark´s powers and all the sacrifices from Pa and Ma kent would be nothing.... I liked the way they handle showing the sacrifice from Pa kent in a more realistic way to make him become a force for good was great... but is each tastes...

Perhaps tornadoes move super fast in real life but in the movie it seemed like Clark had plenty of time to go help his father. Like when his father was struggling in the car trying to kick the door. Clark would have heard and seen him struggling, why didn't he go then? And then even after Jonathan started limping towards them, there still seemed to be enough time for Clark to just run over in normal speed. The distance between Jonathan and Clark just didn't seem that great in the movie, nor did the tornado seem to be moving all that fast.

But even if the movie had made it clear that it was impossible for Clark to help his dad without his powers, it is still unacceptable to me that Clark would just sit back and let his dad die just because he was told to. The reason Jonathan gives-the world is not ready- doesn't even make sense, because when would the world ever be ready? I feel like Clark let his father die basically for nothing. Say he saved his dad, his powers are revealed and the worst happens- the military takes him away to do experiments on him or whatever and the people reject him. How could they even physically hurt him? Plus he could just escape any time. I suppose he could be hurt emotionally, but did he not think being hurt, physically or emotionally was a worthy sacrifice to make for his father's life? Say his father got mad at him for using his powers. Uh, so what. Is his father going to stay mad at him forever for saving his life? And in Clark's case isn't an angry living father better than a dead one who can't feel anything? I know he was about to go, but I don't think a simple no from his father should have been enough to stop him from going, especially since there didn't seem to be a consequence great enough for his father's life to be sacrificed.

 

[roach]

Jonathan Kent wasn't preparing his son to be a hero. He was a realist. Humans kill each other over skin color, religion and region they grew up in....what would they do to an alien?

 

[sf2]

In my mind he was intentionally trying to guide them away from further destroying the city and it's inhabitants.

I know. I talked about anti climate. The movie goes down hill after the metropolis battle. The battle in FOS was suppose to go a higher peak.

 

[John-An]

tornado scene is beatiful but is polemical I have to admit...