All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 23

[2kt09]

Let's keep this G-rated.

rated Gal for Glorious

 

[Mean Mr Mustard]

My God... watching BvS again after seeing WWseveral times... she is MORE badass than before...the moment she shows up for the first time blocking doomsday's blast......so epic and watching her fight DD like a boss now is so much better having seen her training and story.... so ****ing excited for the DCEU right now!!!

 

[Broseph44]

Let's keep this G-rated.

Dark Raven is the resident creeper here on the hype.

 

[Loki882]

I don't know how you can compare WW and Logan in any way.

Because far too many "fans" cannot seem to help themselves. They just HAVE to take cheap shots at other studios/films when praising the ones that they like. It's irritating honestly.

As you said, there's literally NO reason to compare this movie to Logan. They're completely different films, involving completely different characters with completely different personalities/backstories/themes, etc trying to do completely different things.

It's like trying to compare Alien to Wall-E just because they're both technically part of the same genre, it just doesn't work.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

My God... watching BvS again after seeing WWseveral times... she is MORE badass than before...the moment she shows up for the first time blocking doomsday's blast......so epic and watching her fight DD like a boss now is so much better having seen her training and story.... so ****ing excited for the DCEU right now!!!

When I get more time I intend to watch BvS again as I think I will like WW's scenes even more.

 

[InvisibleWoman]

I do wonder if we'll see any difference in Gal's portrayal of Diana in JL (I think her screentime in BvS was too brief to judge)

It seems her bond with Patty contributed to her performance in WW. I'm not saying Gal isn't a good actress - she is - but there's no doubt Patty brought something special out of her. It was like all the stars aligned. So I wonder if a different director will be able to do the same or whether we'll see a different Diana...?

 

[Dark Raven]

Patty Jenkins fought for one scene in Wonder Woman — and conquered Hollywood’s biggest problem

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/8/15742716/wonder-woman-script-second-act

This movie’s secret weapon is its terrific second act.

Spoiler

According to Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins, some of the suits at Warner Bros., the studio that made the film, wanted to cut the single best sequence from her world-beating smash hit.

In a recent interview with the site Fandango, Jenkins said that she had to fight hard to keep the sequence in which Diana, an Amazon cast into the world of us mere mortals, fights her way through No Man’s Land — the bombed-out area separating enemy trenches — during World War I, that she might restore a supply chain to a little town that’s starving to death. The sequence is thrilling and moving, and when I saw the film, people cheered at the mere sight of Diana striding into battle in Wonder Woman’s iconic costume. But it’s also easy to see why a studio might suggest cutting the sequence.

Said Jenkins to Fandango:

I think that in superhero movies, they fight other people, they fight villains. So when I started to really hunker in on the significance of No Man's Land, there were a couple people who were deeply confused, wondering, like, “Well, what is she going to do? How many bullets can she fight?” And I kept saying, “It's not about that. This is a different scene than that. This is a scene about her becoming Wonder Woman.”​

What’s interesting about this isn’t that Jenkins had to talk some of her bosses into signing off on the No Man’s Land sequence. It’s that the No Man’s Land sequence occurs right in the middle of Wonder Woman’s second act — and it’s one of the best second acts for a blockbuster in years. That bucks a troubling Hollywood trend, and I’m hopeful it contributes to the film’s success.

The death of the second act has been a problem in blockbuster filmmaking for too long

I wrote about the disappearing second act in 2016, when a long string of movies skipped from lengthy setup to a lengthy climax — without the middle section that most movies use for character development and plot complication. And the problem hasn’t gone away in 2017, with even more films that seem to think of the second act as suggested, not mandatory, especially movies that are setting up would-be major franchises. (Just two examples since I wrote that article: King Arthur and The Mummy.)

In that article, I wrote:

Without [a] second act, there’s no time for the story to build momentum, for the characters to actually define themselves as individuals, for conflicts to develop. Instead, a bunch of stuff just sort of happens, and that’s that. If the three-act structure is "Send your characters up a tree. Throw rocks at them. See if they climb down," then eliminating the second act destroys any chances of seeing how your characters react to new obstacles — and, thus, fails to reveal what makes them who they are.​

This is not to say that the three-act structure is the be-all, end-all of screenwriting. But it is something we’re all familiar with, on an almost subconscious level, because it’s the way most stories told in the US are structured (especially those for children, which are often the first stories we encounter).

You can do interesting things by subverting the three-act structure, even in a blockbuster (Alien: Covenant is a good recent example of this, keeping its true protagonist hidden for much of the film), but that’s a much harder tightrope to walk with audiences, as Alien: Covenant’s rapidly sinking box office returns would suggest.

But second acts also tend to be the acts that are most reliant on character interaction, not spectacle, and Hollywood studios are convinced spectacle is what sells. It’s sort of easy to see the logic of cutting the No Man’s Land sequence, too — if it’s included, then the film risks stepping on the big fight in its climax (which is, as Peter Suderman points out for Vox, the film’s weakest action sequence). A trimmed-down second act that cuts out character momentum in favor of getting to the big fight more quickly is a good idea if all you care about is putting big, explosive effects onscreen.

But look again at how Jenkins defines the No Man’s Land sequence: “This is a scene about her becoming Wonder Woman.” Without it, the full weight of Diana’s ultimate choice to side with humanity against the film’s main villain wouldn’t be felt. (It’s barely felt as it is.) The No Man’s Land sequence works so well because it feels not just like Diana realizing who she can be, but realizing who everybody else can be as well. It’s the culmination of multiple character arcs, and it positions the story beautifully for where it goes next.

Wonder Woman’s second act shows just how much the filmmakers love their characters

Like many modern blockbusters, Wonder Woman could probably stand to lose a few minutes here and there. But I’m glad it’s a little overlong and bulky, because I know if it was trimmed, most of what would be lost would be the second-act character moments that make the movie work, in favor of the too-long battle sequence at the end of the film.

In that second act, though, Jenkins and screenwriter Allan Heinberg lavish attention on every single major character the film has, from Diana (of course) to the various members of the ad hoc team that accompanies her into battle.

A lot of films would make, say, Saïd Taghmaoui’s Sameer (or Sami) just another supporting player. Wonder Woman gives him a full character — including a desire to be an actor that was put on hold because he thought he’d never find acting work thanks to his ethnicity — and even a chance to “play a part” as he helps Diana infiltrate a big party.

On its face, that’s not completely necessary. But it’s also the most important thing the film could do. If Diana doesn’t feel like humanity is worth saving, thanks to her limited contact with it, then the end of the movie won’t work at all.

Indeed, so many of the best moments in Wonder Woman — everything from Diana first trying ice cream to the establishment of her team to the liberation of that village — take place in that second act. The third act might be a bit of a slog, and overly reliant on yet another bland battle between a superhero and a tremendous opposing force (after it seemingly head-fakes away from Diana learning that stopping war won’t be as easy as simply killing a god of war), but the film doesn’t run out of momentum because it’s done so much work to set up everybody with something to lose up onscreen.

It’s worth noting that the same applies to the summer’s other big success story, Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2. Though that film’s second act isn’t as elegant as the one in Wonder Woman (thanks to some serious story sprawl), it neatly establishes everything the characters are fighting for, so that its big third act (which I do think is better than Wonder Woman’s climax) can resolve in a way that underlines how the characters have grown and changed over the course of the film.

This is, theoretically, not rocket science. We’ve been telling stories in three-act structure (or its close cousin, the five-act structure) for centuries now, and most of us know it down in our bones. When modern blockbusters forego it, they’re not just cheating viewers of a compelling story; they’re cheating themselves out of the kind of movie that goes from a mild success to a genuine sensation.

The idea that Wonder Woman’s focus on making sure all of its characters have little story arcs and get development throughout the film’s second act shouldn’t feel as refreshing as it does. But now that it’s out there, here’s hoping Hollywood realizes there’s a reason this movie works as well as it does.

Wonder Woman (and Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2, for that matter) are playing in theaters nationwide.

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[Thome216]

One of the all female screenings.

Wait, they have food trays?! C'mon!!

 

[Dark Raven]

What does the rest of that say?

 

[Black Narcissus]

What does the rest of that say?

''I get stalker notes from this person calling himself Dark Raven.He wants to smell my foot.''-Gal

 

[Thome216]

So, one of the best character scenes in the entire movie, that really sets up Diana's and Steve's relationship, was ad-libbed!?! How effin great is that!?

 

[Broseph44]

''I get stalker notes from this person calling himself Dark Raven.He wants to smell my foot.''-Gal

 

[brandeezy89]

Wait, they have food trays?! C'mon!!

All Alamo Theaters do

 

[valmont]

Finally saw the movie, and as I feared, because I was expecting so much and because I was so tensed, I ended up being kinda disappointed. Seriously I was so nervous, that my friends told me to relax before it started. I over analyzed the film while watching it, and it prevented me to fully embrace it.

I'ill see it again next week, when my mind is more at peacet:

 

[Dark Raven]

Finally saw the movie, and as I feared, because I was expecting so much and because I was so tensed, I ended up being kinda disappointed. Seriously I was so nervous, that my friends told me to relax before it started. I over analyzed the film while watching it, and it prevented me to fully embrace it.

I'ill see it again next week, when my mind is more at peacet:

I think I was a little in that state of mind so couldn't fully enjoy it. Plus I was not in the best screen room. It's best when you go in with no expectations so you can just enjoy the movie as it is. I also feel that, even though I only watched the very first trailer, that still gave away too much and I felt like I had already seen half the movie albeit in abridged form. I may consider not ever watching any trailers from now on, or at least only watching it once.

 

[Thome216]

Finally saw the movie, and as I feared, because I was expecting so much and because I was so tensed, I ended up being kinda disappointed. Seriously I was so nervous, that my friends told me to relax before it started. I over analyzed the film while watching it, and it prevented me to fully embrace it.

I'ill see it again next week, when my mind is more at peacet:

You're not alone. The first viewing I was second-guessing what I liked and disliked. Thankfully, more viewings have shrunk the dislike to nearly nil and increased the like to near astronomical!

 

[valmont]

I think I was a little in that state of mind so couldn't fully enjoy it. Plus I was not in the best screen room. It's best when you go in with no expectations so you can just enjoy the movie as it is. I also feel that, even though I only watched the very first trailer, that still gave away too much and I felt like I had already seen half the movie albeit in abridged form. I may consider not ever watching any trailers from now on, or at least only watching it once.

Yeah, my screen room was smaller that i expected, that annoyed me...the couple next to me pissed me off too (get a room, worms lol)

I watched to much material before seeing the film, for the next one, only the first trailer (and maybe the second)

You're not alone. The first viewing I was second-guessing what I liked and disliked. Thankfully, more viewings have shrunk the dislike to nearly nil and increased the like to near astronomical!

Right now I need to see it a second time, which proves that deep down, I feel very positive about it despite my first reaction.t:

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ann Wolf talking about the movie

You don’t have much to say in the film, but when your part came up, were you nervous?

No, I wasn’t nervous. I’m that type of person where I had life so bad, I had nothing to be nervous about. There were a lot of things that were cut from the movie, including people and their part.

Even though my part in the film is small, some scenes I filmed were cut. I had a scene with just Wonder Woman and myself. There was this one African American whose only part was to pull a bow, and I told her to pull it like your life depended on it.

https://***********/annwolfeboxing

 

[Dark Raven]

So far the influences on this film that I (personally) have noticed are:

1. Superman the movie
2. The Little Mermaid
3. Pocahontas
4. Titanic
5. Frozen
6. Captain America: The First Avenger
7. Roman Holiday
8. Splash

 

[jfurioso]

Ann Wolf talking about the movie
https://***********/annwolfeboxing

I wish her scenes had been shot and we could see them in the home release.

 

[Dark Raven]

Scenes cut? I thought there aren't any deleted scenes.

 

[jfurioso]

I also feel that, even though I only watched the very first trailer, that still gave away too much and I felt like I had already seen half the movie albeit in abridged form.

My wife said the she felt she had already seen the movie as well, from three trailers I showed her.

 

[jfurioso]

Scenes cut? I thought there aren't any deleted scenes.

Scenes cut may mean they were never shot.

 

[jmc]

Patty Jenkins :

I feel like one of the most ironically sexist things that happened to women heroes for so long was that they had universal storytelling taken away from them. So, male superheroes could have Lois Lane. They can have love, they can have vulnerability, they can have complexity. But women superheroes or strong women characters had to be, ‘I don’t need anyone, I’m the toughest person in the world.’ That’s not fair to anybody. No human being is an island like that.

This is actually a very good point from Patty. The idea that female heroes have to be so tough to the point of rejecting love is unrealistic, and frankly, just flat out boring. If there's a good take away from WW it's that love and heroism often go hand in hand.