All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

Guys, just in case anyone hasn't listened to the full verison of the score they had played in one of the Wonder Woman trailers, please have a listen to the following Youtube link.

What an absolutely amazing score!!

[YT]WoiEYpK_Eyw[/YT]
 
I haven't seen this discussed much, but apparently Ludendorff was based on an historical figure of the same name, Erich Ludendorff.

To summarize some info from the BBC site and encyclopedia Britannica, he became an important strategist in the German army during World War 1, argued for a "total war" strategy and an escalation of the conflict in several areas. He is quoted as saying, "peace is just an interval between wars."

Later, appalled at the perceived humiliating terms of the armistice, he argued that the war should be continued.

After the war, he was largely responsible for promulgating the myth that the German army was never defeated in battle, and that the nation had been betrayed from within (by Bolsheviks, Leftists, Jews). The popularity of this myth contributed to the rise of the Nazi party. Ludendorff himself was a Nazi sympathizer and a Nazi member of Parliament at one point. He later had a falling out with the Nazi party, which led to his retirement. He died in 1937.
 
Flint Marko said:
I plan on buying the 4K version of this the day it comes out, but I hope I can get a better cover than that.
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That's the 4K Best Buy exclusive steelbook, thankfully. Jesus they picked an ugly one. Why even bother when you could have done like the tank poster or the one of her on the beach or something. Standard 4K has the poster of her deflecting bullets, which looks to be the best cover in ny eyes.
 
Flemm said:
I haven't seen this discussed much, but apparently Ludendorff was based on an historical figure of the same name, Erich Ludendorff.

To summarize some info from the BBC site and encyclopedia Britannica, he became an important strategist in the German army during World War 1, argued for a "total war" strategy and an escalation of the conflict in several areas. He is quoted as saying, "peace is just an interval between wars."

Later, appalled at the perceived humiliating terms of the armistice, he argued that the war should be continued.

After the war, he was largely responsible for promulgating the myth that the German army was never defeated in battle, and that the nation had been betrayed from within (by Bolsheviks, Leftists, Jews). The popularity of this myth contributed to the rise of the Nazi party. Ludendorff himself was a Nazi sympathizer and a Nazi member of Parliament at one point. He later had a falling out with the Nazi party, which led to his retirement. He died in 1937.
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Thanks for sharing. :up: :up:
 
Flemm said:
I haven't seen this discussed much, but apparently Ludendorff was based on an historical figure of the same name, Erich Ludendorff.

To summarize some info from the BBC site and encyclopedia Britannica, he became an important strategist in the German army during World War 1, argued for a "total war" strategy and an escalation of the conflict in several areas. He is quoted as saying, "peace is just an interval between wars."

Later, appalled at the perceived humiliating terms of the armistice, he argued that the war should be continued.

After the war, he was largely responsible for promulgating the myth that the German army was never defeated in battle, and that the nation had been betrayed from within (by Bolsheviks, Leftists, Jews). The popularity of this myth contributed to the rise of the Nazi party. Ludendorff himself was a Nazi sympathizer and a Nazi member of Parliament at one point. He later had a falling out with the Nazi party, which led to his retirement. He died in 1937.
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Yeah, I think we mentioned in one of the threads somewhere how, because of the fact that Ludendorff died early, as well as another historical figure in the movie (Paul Von Hindenburg), this might have actually prevented the rise of Hitler and the possiblity of WWII. So it's possible that WWII never happened in the DCEU because of Wonder Woman rather than he just being absent from it.

EDIT: Here's the article:

https://moviepilot.com/p/wonder-woman-world-war-2-theory/4299377
 
Snow Queen said:
That's the 4K Best Buy exclusive steelbook, thankfully. Jesus they picked an ugly one. Why even bother when you could have done like the tank poster or the one of her on the beach or something. Standard 4K has the poster of her deflecting bullets, which looks to be the best cover in ny eyes.
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Love the bullets one but the tank poster is ****ing perfect, one of the best superhero posters I've ever seen. I'm looking to hang that and one of the Homecoming posters in my living room above my couch.
 
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I think the beach vista with the kneeling pose is probably my favorite, but the tank poster is up there.
 
Flemm said:
I haven't seen this discussed much, but apparently Ludendorff was based on an historical figure of the same name, Erich Ludendorff.

To summarize some info from the BBC site and encyclopedia Britannica, he became an important strategist in the German army during World War 1, argued for a "total war" strategy and an escalation of the conflict in several areas. He is quoted as saying, "peace is just an interval between wars."

Later, appalled at the perceived humiliating terms of the armistice, he argued that the war should be continued.

After the war, he was largely responsible for promulgating the myth that the German army was never defeated in battle, and that the nation had been betrayed from within (by Bolsheviks, Leftists, Jews). The popularity of this myth contributed to the rise of the Nazi party. Ludendorff himself was a Nazi sympathizer and a Nazi member of Parliament at one point. He later had a falling out with the Nazi party, which led to his retirement. He died in 1937.
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Yeah, one of rare few things I didn't like in this film. I see no point of using a historical figure and warping it so much to make your typical comic book villain out of it, when you can create a new character from scratch.
 
NotNickFury said:
Ambitious, but no. Look, Wonder Woman is a fantastic film, but I'd hardly call it award worthy. Still, with the maximum number expanded unlike in 2009 when WB pushed for The Dark Knight, I don't see this film getting a Best Picture nomination. Even on a technical level, this film doesn't do what something like a Fury Road did. Still, admirable for WB to give it a shot. If it gets a Best Picture nod, great, but I don't see it happening.
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QFT I feel if you think WW deserves a best pic nod then you haven't seen many movies from this year; plus don't the big Oscar push movies come out in the Fall and Winter?
 
This is really random but some information I spotted on a youtube video had this to say about the No Man's Land scene:

A little bit history buff addition here. This No Man's Land scene intentionally or pure coincidence makes a referance to Angel of Mons myth during World War I. During first year of war in 1914 on Mons Belgium British soldiers fighting at trenches in heat of battle swore that an angel fighting on their side , deflecting bullets , shielding them from enemy fire , covering them with her arrows. Scriptwriter seems to integrate that myth to Wonder Woman story especially considering plot is in during World War I
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Looking it online there is indeed a myth from World War 1 about this. Do we know if this was the inspiration for the No Man's Land scene?
 
Damn, I never knew about some of these historical influences.
 
I have heard a myth similar to that but the woman wasn't fighting she was walking amongst the dying and comforting them.

If this angel myth was an inspiration for the WW writers it would be reminiscent of the care to detail and historical significance in other DCEU films.
 
Didn't WW film under the title "Nightingale"? That's similar to this angel tending to the wounded like Florence. And WW saw the plight of the wounded as she walked among them.
 
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We might one day hear that the Hans Zimmer/ Junkie XL/ Tina Guo WW theme was inspired by a folk melody often heard at the Battle of Mons.
 
Some words by Hayley Atwell on WW:

Hayley Atwell Says ‘Wonder Woman’ Was A “Triumph”

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07/29/hayley-atwell-wonder-woman-triumph/
Wonder Woman is not a perfect movie, but there’s no denying that it’s one of the most influential, profoundly affecting films to come out in recent history. Since the movie came out, we’ve been reading story after story from people young and old, male and female, that walked out of that movie feeling like they just witnessed something incredibly special. It appears that Hayley Atwell was among those people. She recently spoke to Buzzfeed about how she felt about Wonder Woman when she walked out of the theater:

“I thought it was a triumph. I came out of that walking on air, and I think what’s brilliant about is, it’s a genre piece, it’s a superhero movie, it’s pitch-perfect from Gal’s performance to the script to the music, it has just the right amount of tongue in cheek humor, it’s engaging, and I was so surprised by the end of it. I thought, Here we go! 76 years in the making that’s breaking box office records and it’s led by a woman and it’s directed by a woman – I was like, ‘Patty! F–cking! Jenkins! YESSS!’ And what it means for all of us because it’s not just women are great; it’s going, come on, let’s represent who we really are as women. They did it beautifully. Not only did they pull it off, they just were like, Boom! They excelled.”

Atwell was the first modern Marvel woman to headline her own television show, with Jessica Jones creeping up a few short years after. A woman leading her own Marvel movie is still some time away, but Atwell’s Agent Carter is popular among fans and many still wish for her return to the big or small screen.

Wonder Woman and Jessica Jones have both helped prove that with the right people behind the wheel, women-led productions can be successful. If there was ever a time for Agent Carter fans to put pressure on Marvel to bring Peggy back, it would be now. And hey, Captain Marvel will be set in the ’90s, so you never know — we might get an appearance.
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NotNickFury said:
Ambitious, but no. Look, Wonder Woman is a fantastic film, but I'd hardly call it award worthy. Still, with the maximum number expanded unlike in 2009 when WB pushed for The Dark Knight, I don't see this film getting a Best Picture nomination. Even on a technical level, this film doesn't do what something like a Fury Road did. Still, admirable for WB to give it a shot. If it gets a Best Picture nod, great, but I don't see it happening.
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The academy who are voting may think with their hearts though. I don't think they're simply coming to their decision via a process of logical deduction or ticking off certain check boxes. It might be what moved them and gave them a real thrill and joy watching the movie. And WW seems to be one of those movies that has done that this year for a lot of people.

There might be many films which are well acted/ directed etc, but do they always touch the hearts of audiences and leave a lasting impression long after they've left the theatre?
 
MydnightPhoenix said:
QFT I feel if you think WW deserves a best pic nod then you haven't seen many movies from this year; plus don't the big Oscar push movies come out in the Fall and Winter?
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Can you think of some more deserving to be nominated? The Academy has up to ten choices. What are the ten movies this year you would rank ahead of Wonder Woman.

Dark Raven said:
The academy who are voting may think with their hearts though. I don't think they're simply coming to their decision via a process of logical deduction or ticking off certain check boxes. It might be what moved them and gave them a real thrill and joy watching the movie. And WW seems to be one of those movies that has done that this year for a lot of people.

There might be many films which are well acted/ directed etc, but do they always touch the hearts of audiences and leave a lasting impression long after they've left the theatre?
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That's the thing the irate Marvel fanboys don't get when the keep saying Logan was better. Logan may have checked more boxes than Wonder Woman. But nobody else gave a damn about Logan.
It came and went with barely any, if any at all, notice by the media and general public. Wonder Woman was an event, like Superman: The Movie or Batman 1989. Wonder Woman changed the conversation
about comic book movies. For every article about Logan, there were 100 about Wonder Woman.
 
Films like Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Fatal Attraction, ET, Ghost, the Fugitive, or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon were nominated for Best Picture. Were some of these so well acted and touching on typical Oscar subjects? These were all before the Academy extended it to 10 nominations in 2009.

Of course, none of these won, but that's beside the point. Were some of these films more typical Oscar material than WW?

There were also some questionable winners over the years where it seems the award should surely have gone to another film. Some of these best picture winners might not even be remembered at all now compared to the others that were nominated.

You can see a list of all the winners and nominees here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture#Winners_and_nominees

So although a comic book movie has never been nominated, there's no reason WW couldn't be the first.

To quote WW herself: "It's not about what you deserve. It's about what you believe."
 
This is an interesting article explaining how some of the voting process works:

And The Oscar Goes To…: Warner Bros. Is Launching A Campaign To Get ‘Wonder Woman’ And Patty Jenkins Nominated

http://sciencefiction.com/2017/07/2...get-wonder-woman-and-patty-jenkins-nominated/


Patty-Jenkins-Wonder-Woman-Gal-Gadot.jpg


‘Wonder Woman’ is the highest-grossing movie of the summer and second-highest of the year and also has the distinction of being the highest-grossing movie ever by a female director, Patty Jenkins. But could Diana and her powerful bracelets shatter yet another barrier?

Warner Bros. hopes so. Though no official announcement has been made, reportedly the studio is preparing to launch a massive campaign to get Jenkins nominated for the Academy Award for Best Director and ‘Wonder Woman’ for Best Picture. It’s not a cheap endeavor. In order to woo voters (who are all industry insiders, not the general public), WB will have to cough up for private screenings, watermarked DVDs, lots of advertisements in industry publications as well as arranging meetings between the talent behind the film and voters.

Does it have a shot? Just maybe. Because not only was ‘Wonder Woman’ a huge hit with the average moviegoer, but it was heavily praised by critics as well, sitting pretty with a 92% freshness rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It is without a doubt, one of the best received super hero movies in years.

wonder-woman-gal-gadot-movie-patty-jenkins-300x167.jpg


As for Jenkins’ directing… you gotta admit that’s one lush, beautiful film. If she gets the nomination, it will be a major step for comic book movies. Not even Christopher Nolan was recognized for his work on the ‘Dark Knight’ trilogy and many consider those among the best super hero movies ever.

It’s not as though genre films never get nominated or even win the big awards. All three ‘Lord of the Rings’ movies were nominated for Best Picture and ‘The Return of the King’ won the top honor in 2003. ‘The Martian’, ‘Gravity’ and ‘Mad Max: Fury Road’ have also been recognized with nominations. And of course, in 2008, Heath Ledger won a posthumous award for Best Supporting Actor for his role as The Joker in ‘The Dark Knight’, the biggest award a comic book movie has ever earned.

But part of the problem is that the Academy voters have been traditionally white and rapidly aging, continuing to heap praises on stuffy dramas that don’t appeal to most moviegoers. But the Academy recently opened up its membership to 774 new younger and more diverse voters– including ‘Wonder Woman’ stars Gal Gadot and Elena Anaya as well as Margot Robbie a.k.a. Harley Quinn in ‘Suicide Squad’ who would surely support her DC sister, right?

Voters, however, can only vote in their respective fields. So while, several actors, including superheroes/villains Chris Evans (‘Captain America’), Fan Bingbing (‘X-Men: Days of Future Past’), Donald Glover (‘Spider-Man: Homecoming’), Chris Pratt (‘Guardians of the Galaxy’), Aaron Taylor-Johnson (‘Avengers: Age of Ultron’) and Ming Na-Wen (‘Agents of SHIELD’) have been invited to vote, they can only vote in the acting categories and it doesn’t appear that WB is pushing the ‘Wonder Woman’ cast. BUT they can vote for Best Picture, so these spandex titans may be able to swing things for ‘Wonder Woman’ out of solidarity.

On the other hand, directors David Ayer (‘Suicide Squad’) and Joseph and Anthony Russo (‘Captain America: The Winter Soldier’, ‘Captain America: Civil War’ and the upcoming ‘Avengers: Infinity War’) have also been invited to vote and they may also able to swing things in Patty Jenkins’ direction.

oscar-statue.jpg


Say what you will, though Marvel Studios/Disney and Warner Bros. are rival studios, a victory like this would smash open the doors and give comic book movies an unprecedented respectability that could give future CBMs a shot at higher accolades.

Could this influx of younger, more diverse voters drag the stodgy Oscars more in line with popular tastes?

There are two foes ‘Wonder Woman’ will have to conquer and one is Warner Bros.’ OTHER Awards hopeful, ‘Dunkirk’. Will the studio favor that more traditional awards-bait over the longshot that is ‘Wonder Woman’?

The other is… *sigh* ‘Justice League’, directed by Zack Snyder, the man behind the maligned ‘Batman V Superman’, although the pic has since been taken over by Joss Whedon. Whedon earned fan love for the first ‘Avengers’, but his second, ‘Age of Ultron’ got a much more mixed reaction. If ‘Justice League’ turns out to be a hot mess, it could crush any hopes of ‘Wonder Woman’ getting any Oscar respect.

What do you think? Are Patty Jenkins and ‘Wonder Woman’ Oscar worthy?
 
It's a fine film. I HOPE it has changed the perception of the studios in regards to female led tent poles (in front of and behind the cameras... Though the successes of previous female led blockbusters didn't move the needle much in previous years, perhaps the super hero zeitgeist thrust of WW will give it more influence...) and I am more than happy with it getting the response it has...

But it's not an awards worthy movie outside of it's incredible technical acumen. I maybe... MAYBE could see Jenkins getting a nod but even then... It's a sturdy and solidly made film that will be remembered well but... Jenkins getting a best director Oscar seems it would be about the cultural context of the film's release (which I can't say is easy to tease from any appreciation of the film, true...) more than trying to objectively assess the film's strengths or weaknesses.

Put me squarely in the camp also that views this film in a positive light... But I can't at all say it reaches the dramatic and emotional heights of LOGAN. Who cares if more people saw WW than LOGAN. That's an immaterial to the judgment of the respective films' quality type of metric.
 
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KRYPTON INC. said:
Put me squarely in the camp also that views this film in a positive light... But I can't at all say it reaches the dramatic and emotional heights of LOGAN. Who cares if more people saw WW than LOGAN. That's an immaterial to the judgment of the respective films' quality type of metric.
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Is Fox making any effort to push Logan for an Oscar though? Seems like Warner Bros. has more faith in Wonder Woman being Oscar worthy.
 
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