All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

Patty posted this on twitter

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Well said Patty. And I agree that he doesn't understand because he's not a woman and seems to be coming at it from a man's angle, and one who wants to overcompensate. WW would've been so boring and cliched if she had been as Cameron is suggesting.
 
I think Patty Jenkins just told James Cameron to take several seats. :applaud
 
I'm a big fan of most of Cameron's movies but he's always been a bit arrogant, and I think Charlize will be backing Patty on this judging from the comments in this pic.


 
It's like if we thought the only type of male action hero could be either the Arnie Terminator type, or the laconic strong, silent type like Clint Eastwood. We'd never get heroes like Marty McFly or Peter Parker. There are lots of types of male heroes. In the same way female heroes don't all have to be like Sarah Conner or Ellen Ripley.
 
The idea that a woman can't be strong AND beautiful is laughable. WTF was he thinking with this backwards ass comment?
 
It's good that Jenkins actually responded to that fairly quickly and didn't let it fester so that people could start to buy into Cameron's way of thinking. She was right to nip it in the bud and put him in his place.
 
James Cameron's thinking is in sync with those UN women protestors who opposed WW's appointment as honorary ambassador. It doesn't mean it's right though.

Those women protesters might've been opposed then because they didn't really know WW. But now the movie has come out and has been such an inspiration to women everywhere, I wonder what they would have to say. WW ought to be restored as UN Ambassador. That was a big mistake removing her, especially seeing what she's done this year.
 
**** James Cameron right now. What a ******** crybaby mad that no one is talking about him so he manufactures anger toward any other well received female lead film that isn't his.
 
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It's good that Jenkins actually responded to that fairly quickly and didn't let it fester so that people could start to buy into Cameron's way of thinking. She was right to nip it in the bud and put him in his place.

I wish she had been harsher on him.

Because, quite frankly, Cameron is an ass. Objectified Jamie Lee Curtis on True Lies and fat-shamed Kate Winslet while they were filming Titanic. He has no grounds saying that WW is a "step back" given the way he's treated his ex-wives and actresses on his films.
 
It's crazy how many of our fanboy heroes have kinda always had these weird hangups regarding women even though we viewed them as these progressive feminist supporters. Makes you think.
 
I wish she had been harsher on him.

Because, quite frankly, Cameron is an ass. Objectified Jamie Lee Curtis on True Lies and fat-shamed Kate Winslet while they were filming Titanic. He has no grounds saying that WW is a "step back" given the way he's treated his ex-wives and actresses on his films.

I think True Lies could have done without that dancing scene from Jamie Lee Curtis. It's the one part of the film I never feel comfortable watching. I think it's a very entertaining movie but if I want to show it to anyone I have second thoughts because of that scene. It cheapens what is otherwise a classic spy movie.

And Kate Winslet is full frontal nude in Titanic. It makes the film not family friendly when it could otherwise have been. That was just unnecessary.

WW didn't depict Diana in any objectified or even sexy way. The camera shots weren't at all like films typically made by a man. So WTF is Cameron talking about that WW objectified its heroine? He's not only completely inaccurate but also a hypocrite.
 
It makes me long to see more female directors as I've rarely heard such unprofessionalism given to males on sets with female directors. As males tend to treat it like there sexual smorgasbord or den of inequity.
 
I wish she had been harsher on him.

Because, quite frankly, Cameron is an ass. Objectified Jamie Lee Curtis on True Lies and fat-shamed Kate Winslet while they were filming Titanic. He has no grounds saying that WW is a "step back" given the way he's treated his ex-wives and actresses on his films.

I still remember how ****ing angry I was sitting in the theater watching that Jamie Lee Curtis striptease scene in True Lies. Not only watching it, but listening to every guy in the theater (including the one I was with!) in hysterics over it, and catcalling her as that scene went on. It’s the first time I ever got truly upset over how a female character was treated in an action movie.
 
I still remember how ****ing angry I was sitting in the theater watching that Jamie Lee Curtis striptease scene in True Lies. Not only watching it, but listening to every guy in the theater (including the one I was with!) in hysterics over it, and catcalling her as that scene went on. It’s the first time I ever got truly upset over how a female character was treated in an action movie.

Once when it was shown on TV that scene was edited out. I wouldn't mind a version of the film without that. At least then it would be a film you could show as a slightly more family oriented movie.

Cameron says it's just male Hollywood doing the same old thing, but isn't wanting a masculine heroine just doing the same old thing? WW was a breath of fresh air which is why the movie was so lauded.
 
James Cameron is an ass, and has been known to be one for a very long time, but he's talented and I like some of his movies. And just because he specialized in giving us one particular type of great cinema heroine doesn't make him the authority on cinema heroines. He's definitely objectified some of his heroines too, so he has very little room to talk, as far as I'm concerned. Loved Patty's response. :up:
 
Well, Cameron would know a thing about self-congratulatory patting himself on the back, now wouldn't he?
 
I still remember how ****ing angry I was sitting in the theater watching that Jamie Lee Curtis striptease scene in True Lies. Not only watching it, but listening to every guy in the theater (including the one I was with!) in hysterics over it, and catcalling her as that scene went on. It’s the first time I ever got truly upset over how a female character was treated in an action movie.

Even when I first saw the movie on TV, that scene is just unnecessary (and uncomfortable) in the context of the story. Seems like it was there for Cameron to get his jollies off watching JLC in her skivvies. I'm a guy, but even I can tell when a male director is exploiting an actress for a scene -- just the tone and the way the scene(s) is shot.

And Kate Winslet is full frontal nude in Titanic. It makes the film not family friendly when it could otherwise have been. That was just unnecessary.

She wasn't, otherwise, the film would've gotten an R-rating. The production used tasteful camera angles and objects to block overly explicit shots of Winslet's body.

And even if you cut the whole portrait drawing scene out, the movie is not that family friendly. The last hour is quite intense.
 
Well, Cameron would know a thing about self-congratulatory patting himself on the back, now wouldn't he?

Definitely some of that going on. It's probably gone to his head that the top two grossing movies of all time are by him and that he's also given us the Terminator franchise.
 
Even when I first saw the movie on TV, that scene is just unnecessary (and uncomfortable) in the context of the story. Seems like it was there for Cameron to get his jollies off watching JLC in her skivvies. I'm a guy, but even I can tell when a male director is exploiting an actress for a scene -- just the tone and the way the scene(s) is shot.



She wasn't, otherwise, the film would've gotten an R-rating. The production used tasteful camera angles and objects to block overly explicit shots of Winslet's body.

And even if you cut the whole portrait drawing scene out, the movie is not that family friendly. The last hour is quite intense.


Ok well I misremembered. It's been at least 15 years or more since I last saw the film. The last hour is indeed intense but only in a disaster movie way and not either sexual or excessive violence. It's just an intense and dire situation. The portrait scene could've been filmed so it didn't show her boobs. I'm pretty sure those were at least on display.

Not sure how True Lies could be edited properly to exclude that scene and still make sense though because isn't that where they are captured? Unless she just came to the room and then it cut to the terrorists bursting in.
 
Honestly, I see somewhat what Cameron is talking about. I do feel that some of the back-slapping is a little misguided, and it has nothing to do with the quality of the film.

WW is a great film, and it should stand on that merit alone. I believe that some of the widespread acclaim it has receiving is due to being a female-led action superhero film. To me, that is where the "step backwards" comes into play. A "step forward" would have been making no mention of this being a "female-led" anything. It's just a movie on equal levels with any other movie out there. That way, it's not treated or viewed any differently than any other the male-led action superhero film.
 
Honestly, I see somewhat what Cameron is talking about. I do feel that some of the back-slapping is a little misguided, and it has nothing to do with the quality of the film.

WW is a great film, and it should stand on that merit alone. I believe that some of the widespread acclaim it has receiving is due to being a female-led action superhero film. To me, that is where the "step backwards" comes into play. A "step forward" would have been making no mention of this being a "female-led" anything. It's just a movie on equal levels with any other movie out there. That way, it's not treated or viewed any differently than any other the male-led action superhero film.

It's not Jenkins who has said this though. She specifically said in interviews she just wants to be known as a director not a female director and that she wants to make a good movie not female led movie. It's other people who have used those terms. She hasn't objectified her heroine at all. But she doesn't need to make a heroine who is more masculine and not girly or attractive.
 
It's not Jenkins who has said this though. She specifically said in interviews she just wants to be known as a director not a female director and that she wants to make a good movie not female led movie. It's other people who have used those terms. She hasn't objectified her heroine at all. But she doesn't need to make a heroine who is more masculine and not girly or attractive.

I agree, and I'm not talking about how Patty Jenkins views her own movie, I'm talking about the widespread acclaim that the film is getting. You are correct, she just wants to be seen as a director. A "step forward" would mean we are only talking about the greatness of the film. And I kinda wish everyone else just saw this as a "movie" without attaching "female-led" anywhere on it. I liked WW because it was a great film, period.
 
Cameron needs to learn how to talk to the press. he is not in a bar with guys.
 
I agree, and I'm not talking about how Patty Jenkins views her own movie, I'm talking about the widespread acclaim that the film is getting. You are correct, she just wants to be seen as a director. A "step forward" would mean we are only talking about the greatness of the film. And I kinda wish everyone else just saw this as a "movie" without attaching "female-led" anywhere on it. I liked WW because it was a great film, period.

But that's not really what Cameron means when he says it's a step backwards. He's not really talking about it just being spoken of as a good film rather than a good female film. If it were that, then Patty Jenkins would be in wholehearted agreement with him. What Cameron is mostly saying is that he thinks WW as a heroine has been objectified and that she should be portrayed more as a tough, gritty hero instead of one who is softer and more feminine and also beautiful. That's why he speaks of Sarah Conner, who says that she earned her respect through her actions rather than her looks.

But WW has also earned her respect through her actions. She just doesn't have to be the tough, gritty heroine like Sarah Conner, as that is not the only template. Cameron says WW is the same old male Hollywood schtick, which he thinks is a step backwards, but what he's suggesting is actually the step backwards. And he's certainly objectified his female characters, so it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

WW is a step forwards, because we rarely get the heroine is tough but doesn't need to act tough because she's secure enough in herself and her strength to be feminine and still do feminine things. Cameron equates WW with an earlier time, as if going back to a backwards way of thinking and a return to how female heroes were before. But they were never really like this before. They were much more helpless and like damsels in distress, or they were just plain love interests. Even Lynda Carter's WW was still more helpless, especially before she ever spun round to transform from Diana into WW. She could be subdued easily, even if she was captured before having the chance to change. Gal's WW is not at all like that, and even as Diana she is still super strong. So WW 2017 is not a step backwards at all.

And critics have talked about WW as a good movie, but it would be ignoring the significance of the film if it were to not even mention what it has done for female heroes on the big screen and for women everywhere. It's not like female heroes abounded in movies but were thought of as not being able to carry action films.

It's like someone like Obama. Of course he would want to be thought of as just a good president, but it would be remiss not to also mention that he was the first black president, because of the significance of that and how far blacks had come to be in that sort of position of power and influence.
 
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