All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - Part 7

[-Arya-]

I think people are panicking about the dark tone because it hasn't been executed properly. So far all we've had is Snyder's vision on screen. Now that we have output from others directors, and they manage to tell a great story with equally great characters, the tone won't matter very much.

 

[jmc]

They don't shy away from that. Both Roven and Deborah Snyder have mentioned on many occasions that DCEU films deal with darker themes. That's something they had in mind since MOS and they'll follow it through, no reason to hide that fact or attempt to fool the audience into believing the films are something they're not.

Or, even if they might be a reason, they won't do it.

That may be the case, but continuing to openly state the tone is dark in the ever increasing face of negativity towards the tone of the series is going to make marketing the next batch of films more and more difficult. WB superheroes have an image problem right now and they don't need one of their actors reminding people of it.

 

[OutOfBoose]

This series is being heavily criticised for being too dark. The last thing WB needs on the back of BvS is their next solo film being given the same label, no matter if it's true or not.

People need to get used to the fact, that darker comic book stories have a right to live too. Marvel isn't the only way. The earlier they will get it, the better. It's better to let everyone whine now, than on the day of the release.

 

[KillerWolf]

They won't follow through if all the films underperform like BvS has.

That may be the case, but continuing to openly state the tone is dark in the ever increasing face of negativity towards the tone of the series is going to make marketing the next batch of films more and more difficult. WB superheroes have an image problem right now and they don't need one of their actors reminding people of it.

I get your point, but people who had problem with BvS's dark tone, had problem with Snyder's dark tone and I believe they realize that. What Jenkins and Ayer do will more than probably be different. They have stressed out many times that DCEU is very director-friendly and they're letting them leave their own stamp, so I believe them saying that the themes will be darker, but there's still going to be diversity in overall tone and directors' style, like they've been doing, is a good approach.

Everything is clear from that and it's certainly better than to bulls**t us with statements that WW is going to be a light-hearted film, just to do damage control.

 

[Jonwo]

Patty Jenkins has directed films which have been much darker than I assume WW will be nothing like Monster and the pilot for The Killing. If someone is capable of delivering a film with a serious tone, it's her.

 

[jmc]

I get your point, but people who had problem with BvS's dark tone, had problem with Snyder's dark tone and I believe they realize that. What Jenkins and Ayer do will more than probably be different. They have stressed out many times that DCEU is very director-friendly and they're letting them leave their own stamp, so I believe them saying that the themes will be darker, but there's still going to be diversity in overall tone and directors' style, like they've been doing, is a good approach.

Everything is clear from that and it's certainly better than to bulls**t us with statements that WW is going to be a light-hearted film, just to do damage control.

It's all connected though. Most people don't give a damn about who directs these things, but if previous films have shown a path that audiences don't like you're going to have a hard time selling them on another chapter going down the same path regardless of who's directing it. It's a brand thing not a director thing. They are frankly better off not mentioning the tone at all.

 

[KillerWolf]

Marketing for SS and WW didn't even start yet. That's when they'll have to win the audience over and that's when no one will remember what Gadot or anyone else is saying about humor and darkness of the film these days.

 

[moviefreak]

I guessed that not many people have seen Jenkins' Monster? That's a very dark themed film with heavy subject matters.

I have long suspected that Jenkins' WW will be far more serious, just how light in the tone it will be dependent on the script, and hopefully the charisma of Gadot will carry the film.

 

[KillerWolf]

I saw it. It's a film Jenkins made 13 years ago and it's completely pointless to assume what WW will be like based on it.

What made the film serious from the start is the setting. I don't think Jenkins is capable only of delivering copies of "Monster".

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I just think that a lot of people are annoyed with the dark and gritty talk right now because of BvS. They shouldn't lie about the tone but I don't know if it's smart to push that angle too much marketing wise. So if that's what they do when they start marketing the film next year I don't predict great things box office wise unfortunately.

 

[moviefreak]

I saw it. It's a film Jenkins made 13 years ago and it's completely pointless to assume what WW will be like based on it.

What made the film serious from the start is the setting. I don't think Jenkins is capable only of delivering copies of "Monster".

It's dependent on the script though. I only said of Jenkins because her directing resume was so short, the fact that she's also a writer and DC going to maintain a serious if somewhat dark tone in their DCEU.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yeah I'll admit that hearing "dark" or "dark and gritty" right now annoys the hell out of me. I kinda loathe hearing those words right now so I'll cringe every time I hear them especially when it concerns DC films.

 

[OutOfBoose]

It's dependent on the script though. I only said of Jenkins because her directing resume was so short, the fact that she's also a writer and DC going to maintain a serious if somewhat dark tone in their DCEU.

I SERIOUSLY hope for that.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I SERIOUSLY hope for that.

Same here, have no problem with them using that tone at all.

 

[KillerWolf]

I just think that a lot of people are annoyed with the dark and gritty talk right now because of BvS. They shouldn't lie about the tone but I don't know if it's smart to push that angle too much marketing wise. So if that's what they do when they start marketing the film next year I don't predict great things box office wise unfortunately.

Well, look at the latest trailer for "Suicide Squad", many people responded well to its more humorous tone. I think the difference between Snyder's, Ayer's and Jenkins' style will be apparent and people who didn't like MOS and BvS will want to see a DCEU film that's not directed by Zack Snyder. Again, marketing hasn't started yet. We'll see what they'll do, but just making a point that they don't feel like Snyder directed those films will do the job, I believe.

And I like to think that beside MCU's quippy, lighthearted fun and X-Men Universe's more serious, but mostly straightforward stories, there is also a place in the world of CBMs for DCEU's darker themed, somewhat thought-provoking style.

I'd hate it if the reaction to BvS would result in narrowing the possibilities of what can be done with a comic book film.

It's dependent on the script though. I only said of Jenkins because her directing resume was so short, the fact that she's also a writer and DC going to maintain a serious if somewhat dark tone in their DCEU.

Of course it is, no arguments there. Still, "Monster" was based on a real life story of a traumatized prostitute and a serial killer, so you can understand why I find any sort of comparison to an adaptation of a mythological heroine from comic books to be off the mark.

 

[moviefreak]

Of course it is, no arguments there. Still, "Monster" was based on a real life story of a traumatized prostitute and a serial killer, so you can understand why I find any sort of comparison to an adaptation of a mythological heroine from comic books to be off the mark.

Well, we don't have much references for Jenkins' works apart from Monster and the pilot of the TV series the Killing. Unless Jenkins changed her outlook over 10 years, she'll likely to approach WW more seriously and most likely from her viewpoint as a woman. In my view the unknown is the film's tone - will it be Nolan-like or Favreau-like?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Well, look at the latest trailer for "Suicide Squad", many people responded well to its more humorous tone. I think the difference between Snyder's, Ayer's and Jenkins' style will be apparent and people who didn't like MOS and BvS will want to see a DCEU film that's not directed by Zack Snyder. Again, marketing hasn't started yet. We'll see what they'll do, but just making a point that they don't feel like Snyder directed those films will do the job, I believe.

And I like to think that beside MCU's quippy, lighthearted fun and X-Men Universe's more serious, but mostly straightforward stories, there is also a place in the world of CBMs for DCEU's darker themed, somewhat thought-provoking style.

I'd hate it if the reaction to BvS would result in narrowing the possibilities of what can be done with a comic book film.

I keep wondering how accurate to the film that those Suicide Squad trailers are. It's just difficult to tell when it comes to WB because the DC films mission statement is dark and gritty. We will see. All I can hope for is that whatever it ends up being it's better than BvS as a film.

I have always maintained that I do not want all comic book films to have the same tone, my opinion remains the same. Right now I'd call DCEU films wannabe thought provoking style and in the case of Man of Steel, which I like, semi thought provoking style because what has been aimed for his not hit the target as of April 2016. So would I be up for a wholly successful mark hitting dark and thought provoking comic book film like The Dark Knight? Yes I would. It's now a matter of them finally nailing the execution though. They haven't quite did that and it's been two times at bat.

 

[teardrop]

both serious in tone and theme, I don't expect anything else from Jenkins.

not just her only feature film Monster, you go through everything she's done, even with the lighter tv projects she digs the more sophisticated subject matter.

if WB wanted a fun pop corn flick or standard action drama with obligatory jokes thrown in, they wouldn't get Jenkins on board.
they initially went for Michelle MacLaren, well, she isn't exactly light side of the world either.

just musing though, if it were MacLaren directing and declared a GoT style WW...how many people would get "panic"?

 

[AnneFan]

People need to get used to the fact, that darker comic book stories have a right to live too. Marvel isn't the only way. The earlier they will get it, the better. It's better to let everyone whine now, than on the day of the release.

Agree.

 

[Sawyer]

Dark isn't a problem. It wasn't the problem with BVS. BVS's problem was being unrelentingly bleak, bordering on joyless. You can still have fun in the dark. BVS just didn't.

 

[Willi Berg]

I remember when some of us were wanting a WW movie by Nicolas Winding Refn, when he stated his interest. Now that would've been violent and dark.

I don't mind if WW goes dark, if the depiction of Amazons is this strange and serious thing (because it kind of is.)

I will NOT be scared off by Zack Snyder, thankyouverymuch

But I admit that marketing concerns and internet hysteria could put a negative spin on it all...

 

[jokesonm3]

Dark isn't a problem. It wasn't the problem with BVS. BVS's problem was being unrelentingly bleak, bordering on joyless. You can still have fun in the dark. BVS just didn't.

Yep.

 

[jmc]

The other issue with WW is that given who the character became in BvS, with her becoming disillusioned with the world, WW can only end on sour note.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The studio and filmmaker used dark and gritty themselves for BvS, that's why I use it. They didn't use unrelentingly bleak and joyless to describe BvS before it came out.

I am all for the DCEU films being more serious, I am totally fine with that idea and want them to be more serious, what I am against is what you described Sawyer. I'm also against ****** scripts and atrocious editing.

I just hope that Wonder Woman being dark doesn't mean what it meant when BvS was described that way.

EDIT: Wonder Woman having to end on a down note is a huge concern to me jmc. If they handle it as poorly as it was handled in BVS that would be disastrous for the film. I don't know how many tragic endings that I can take.

 

[Bwahaha!]

No matter what anyone thinks of BvS (and I liked it), one thing it def did successfully is debuting WW. Everyone loved her. People are hyped for a WW movie. Now it's up to the marketers and creative team to deliver.