Comics Amazing Spider-Man #584 -- Character Assassination part 1 (spoilers)

My main problem with Vin, Carlie, and Lily (aside from them being molds of people we've met before with other names that could have just been brought back to fill their roles) is where the hell did they come from? When did Peter meet them? I don't think that was explained and if it was, I must have missed it.
 
Lilly is Harry's GF thats how he met her, Carlie was with harry and her when they first met at Harry's welcome back party. Pete met Vin through Carlie
 
My main problem with Vin, Carlie, and Lily (aside from them being molds of people we've met before with other names that could have just been brought back to fill their roles) is where the hell did they come from? When did Peter meet them? I don't think that was explained and if it was, I must have missed it.

Pete's first encounters with these people have yet to be addressed, if ever...

Though the girls have been through Harry...
 
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?gid=840

preview for the next issue. can we just make this the official character assassination thread?

Good idea. Saves from having to make multiple threads. As for the preview...

Hmm...To play devil's advocate here,
It's possible the campaign rally occurred before Carlie went to Peter and Vin's apartment, making it possible that she could still be Menace. But certainly doesn't appear likely based on those preview pages, does it? So that leaves the only possible culprits being Lilly (who happened to have been called by her father giving her opportunity to leave) or Harry (who is, after all, by himself, coupled with his own Green Goblin shadow). Although, if we then see Lilly at the campaign rally with her father and that she was there when the attack took place, that automatically rules her out. Unless of course Hollister and Lilly (as Menace) have been in cahoots this whole time.

The other possibility is that, if Lilly is Menace, that Harry has known that she was and has trained her to be Menace, hence his telling her that "she has to go" carries double meaning.

But, the preview also seems to suggest that Harry is gradually succumbing to the goblin formula yet again. So perhaps Harry actually physically transforms into Menace without his realizing that he does so. Course, the idea of Harry becoming a goblin once again does seem repetitive.
 
And if Harry's
physically transforming into the Goblin, that would be a new and previously unseen effect of the Goblin formula (in the 616, at any rate).
 
And if Harry's
physically transforming into the Goblin, that would be a new and previously unseen effect of the Goblin formula (in the 616, at any rate).

True. Plus remember
the goblin formula Harry took was a far more advanced version of the original formula, hence why he "succumbed" to it after taking it. So it's quite possible that this formula could have made far more physiological and psychological changes than even Harry realized. I could see the interlude issue, perhaps, exploring the time Harry was abroad in Europe and undergoing these transformations into Menace--if Harry is Menace that is. However, I'm just saying that having Harry be a goblin character once again smacks of repetitiveness of stories past, which is a charge that Brand New Day has been accused of.
 
so info on the STK and Menace

Menace= Lilly(it looks like she transforms into Mencae instead of it being a costume though) so you were pretty close stillanerd.
STK= NYPD cop conspiracy?
 
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Okay, read the newest issue.. Character Assassination (That and Mississippi have to be the only two words with that many 'S's) part 2...

I have one question...
Why didn't Peter's spidey sense alert him that something was off about Vin and Lilly? I remember the days when Peter could talk or shake hands with a dude for one minute and his spider-sense would tingle like crazy if they were shady... even if they weren't up to anything bad at that particular moment. Anyway the only new supporting-character I remotely like is Carlie Cooper (well, and JJJ's pop I guess), so Lilly and Vin (and Vin's dumb partner Al) can die, go to jail the rest of their natural life or go through violent clone degeneration for all I care.
 
Personally, I'm rather disappointed that
Lilly Hollister was revealed to be Menace. Not because it doesn't make any logical sense (it does) but that she was far too easy a suspect (one quite a few people pegged from the get go) but that Menace didn't turn out to be Carlie (which I thought Marvel would choose because Lilly seemed so simple). Oh sure, Harry was more obvious that Lilly and I'm glad Marvel didn't go that route, but I think that there were just as many clues pointing to Carlie as there was Lilly, and if Carlie had been Menace, it would have given the character some much needed psychological complexity in the sense that, as an orphan, her motivation would be to please the man she regards as a father and have a bit of jealousy towards her best friend and Hollister's real daughter.

There's actually quite a lot of indications Lilly was Menace, and certainly in New Ways to Die, the way she came on to Peter, pretty much suggested that she was a manipulative skank at the very least. But now, considering how Menace reacted to Hollister being injured and what could only be a masterful performance from Lilly at the hospital, it's also suggests she's one cold and callious psycho as well.

Personally, it would be interesting if it's later proved that Hollister knew that his daughter was Menace and Lilly didn't know that he knew, or that Carlie Cooper was aiding Lilly considering how Menace used goblin equipment, it would require some scientific expertise, especially when it comes to modifying it. Then again, perhaps because the new characters, including Lilly, haven't been adequately developed over the past year, maybe this is why it's somewhat hard to think that someone like Lilly could have pulled this off entirely on her own.
 
Personally, I'm rather disappointed that
Lilly Hollister was revealed to be Menace. Not because it doesn't make any logical sense (it does) but that she was far too easy a suspect (one quite a few people pegged from the get go) but that Menace didn't turn out to be Carlie (which I thought Marvel would choose because Lilly seemed so simple). Oh sure, Harry was more obvious that Lilly and I'm glad Marvel didn't go that route, but I think that there were just as many clues pointing to Carlie as there was Lilly, and if Carlie had been Menace, it would have given the character some much needed psychological complexity in the sense that, as an orphan, her motivation would be to please the man she regards as a father and have a bit of jealousy towards her best friend and Hollister's real daughter.

There's actually quite a lot of indications Lilly was Menace, and certainly in New Ways to Die, the way she came on to Peter, pretty much suggested that she was a manipulative skank at the very least. But now, considering how Menace reacted to Hollister being injured and what could only be a masterful performance from Lilly at the hospital, it's also suggests she's one cold and callious psycho as well.

Personally, it would be interesting if it's later proved that Hollister knew that his daughter was Menace and Lilly didn't know that he knew, or that Carlie Cooper was aiding Lilly considering how Menace used goblin equipment, it would require some scientific expertise, especially when it comes to modifying it. Then again, perhaps because the new characters, including Lilly, haven't been adequately developed over the past year, maybe this is why it's somewhat hard to think that someone like Lilly could have pulled this off entirely on her own.

my guess is she had a lot of access to Oscorp since she has Harry Osborn wrapped around her finger. I guess we are getting her orgin story next week. do you think maybe she took Goblin serum to try to get a better connection with Harry and that was the result? do you think Pete will even find out. for all we know the Genius Norman Osborn was behind it all, but I doutb we'll get that much detail. in the next issue. I think since Norman Osborn is occupied with appearing in 90% of marvel comics right now Menace will be Spider-man's Goblin foe and Menace will be a secret Harry's secret for a while... but I could be entirely off with my scattered theories
 
i bought this issue about a week ago and all i could say is good cliff hanger she was holding a bag of spider-tracers so does vin knows peter is spidey?
 
I can't believe I'm about to say this buttt.....

The past 3 issues of Spidey have been top grade stuff. I've really enjoyed em.

Oh god, I've fallen sick haven't I? :(
 
I like that Lily is Meanace and look forward to a possible story of her and Harry out as goblins together.

What's more intriging is the "we" in regards to the Spider-tracer killer. So there's more than Vin and his partner involved?
 
I know there is already a thread discussing part one, but it was suggested that we make an entire thread discussing Character Assassination in general. So, that's what's this thread will be (and hopefully the moderator can merge the two threads). So, for those who want to see what happened in part one, go here: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=318283
 
Anyway, here's a rundown of part two:

We open with the return of the Two in One news show, which basically talks about how it's 36 hours before the mayoral election, and that J. Jonah Jameson will be on as a special guest.

The scene then goes back to the Statue of Liberty right after Harry proposed to Lily. Lily tells Harry that she needs time to think about it because they've only been going out for a few months and with Harry's "history" she wants to be sure. Harry, at first, doesn't take it well, and angrily grabs her arm then retreats once he realizes he lost his temper. Lily finally gets a phone call from her dad about the poll results, in which we learn Hollister and Crowne are in a dead heat. Lily leaves Harry, and we see a shot of his shadow shaped like the Green Goblin (oooh, foreshadowing)

After the recap page, we return to Carlie holding the bag of spider-tracers when Vin returns to the apartment. Both Carlie and Vin ask what each of them are doing in the apartment, when Vin's partner, Al, arrives, telling Vin that Menace is attacking a Hollister campaign rally (Dang it! I was so hoping Menace would be Carlie). Peter, still hiding in the bathroom, overhears this and, even though he still hasn't fully recovered from his bullet wound and his arm is in a sling, suits up to fight Menace.

Meanwhile, Vin and his partner are leaving to go the rally when Carlie stops them by showing them the bag of spider tracers and demands to know from Vin what is going on (Oh well done, Miss "I'm a super smart forensic scientist but don't have any common sense whatsoever." Confront the guy you think is a crazy serial killer directly why don't you?). Vin tells her that Carlie really doesn't think he is the Spider Tracer Killer, otherwise she wouldn't be talking to him in the tone she's taking (funny, Carlie never mentioned anything about the Spider-Tracer Killer. Hmmm...)

We then cut to Spidey arriving at the Hollister campaign rally where Menace is throwing his bombs around and causing all kinds of chaos. This is briefly interrupted by Jameson on the Two in One news show, going on another anti-Spider-Man tirade, saying that the tracers are definitive proof Spider-Man is the Spider-Tracer Killer. One of the commentators points out the obvious that the tracers could be counterfeits, that just as she could go down to Tribeca and get a watch that says "Rolex" doesn't mean it's an actual Rolex. Jameson dismisses this as "liberal media-biased claptrap" (So, Jonah is basically Bill O'Reilly now?:whatever:)

Anyway, at the rally, Spidey quips that he would have thought Menace was a Hollister supporter (oh how ironic), and Menace says that he purposefully attacked the rally to lure Spidey out in the open to take out his frustrations on him. He repeated hits Spidey in his wounded shoulder and thus makes him fall into a building under renovation. As a result, the scaffolding is about to collapse, but Spidey's quick thinking and some webbing prevent it from falling on the Hollister supporters. However, Spidey passes out and falls with the scaffolding.

Cut back to Carlie demanding an explanation from Vin, who is trying to appeal for his partner to back him up. Al, however, pretty much confirms Carlie's suspicions that Vin is the Spider-Tracer Killer. Vin gets upset at Al, but doesn't deny the allegation, while Al tells Vin that he shouldn't have been so foolish to hide such incriminating evidence under his bed and that "we gave 'em to you to take care of." Carlie asks "What do you mean 'we?'" That's when Al tells Carlie that Vin isn't the only Spider-Tracer Killer. That's right my tinfoil hat wearing Spidey fans--The STK killings are part of larger conspiracy! And both Vin and his partner are in it up to their eyeballs. (Oh, and nice going, Carlie. Way to put yourself foolishly in danger yet again. Seriously, has Lois Lane taught you ANYTHING! :D).

Meanwhile, Menace begins to beat Spidey up some more as he tries to recover, and Menace tells Spidey that since the police want him dead or alive, he's going to give him to the cops--dead, of course. Spidey tries to fight back by trying to web Menace's face, but misses, and gets pounded in his wounded shoulder again and is about to be choked to death (similar to what's on the cover). Fortunately, the cops show up just in time, and Menace then says that he's made a citizen's arrest and then takes off on his glider, laughing like a loon. Unfortunately, the cops are with a squad of capekillers, who then shackle Spidey to heavy duty restrains and read him his rights. (That's right folks--Spidey goes to jail, doesn't pass "Go," and doesn't collect $200 dollars!)

We then cut to Menace returning to...Hollister campaign headquarters (hmm, can you see where this is going?) and once inside, begins to wince in pain (so it seems Menace physically transforms into a "goblin," which explains why no one could remove his mask...because it WASN'T a mask.) Oh, and notice Menace's bag looks an awful lot like...(Oh, no. No. Surely that's just Romita Jr. pulling our leg, right? RIGHT?) Five minutes later, Harry shows up hoping Lily will accept his marriage proposal or that he can make her see realize that she wants to marry him where he finds...

[BLACKOUT]LILY HOLLISTER WEARING THE MENACE COSTUME!!!![/BLACKOUT]

So, this was a very good, fast paced issue. And although some people could have seen some of the twists in this issue, they still make a lot of sense. At last we're getting answers and drawn out subplots resolved, folks! :yay:
 
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I know people will complain about LIlly being Menace (cause thats all people seem to do now a days.), but its a logical turn and reveal...if it is even the true reveal, cause the scene of the Menace costume coming off, sorta looked guyish.

But the Spider-Tracer stuff with Vin, is really intreguing to me, and now that Charlie is in danger...as it seems.

And how is our FNSM going to get out of those shackles...some heavey duty stuff, wonder why though, it equips something to go around his head/eyes.
 
jersey joker if you get ASM extra 1 it has spider-man's trial which now makes more sense with the first 2 issues of the story i think it might be included in the next issue
 
On 2-13-2008

MAN I love waiting for new issues of Spider-Man again!

550 was guuuuuud!

As for Menace, is it possible someone like Lily could pull that off? After all she's close to Harry.

I knew this day would come! You may all bow to me now. Muahahahaha.
 
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Its funny, you'd think the first thing the police would do is take spiderman's mask off and reveal his identity before they arrest him but....what do i know?lol
 
Why? He has the right to keep his idenity secret from the general public
 
Really? Since when? Also remember spiderman is an outlaw from registration, there's no logical reason why the police wouldnt unmask him.
 
Okay, I'm going to go into a Vin-related rant complete with spoilers, so be warned...

I hope Vin dies. Seriously, I hope he gets the Ben Reilly treatment and makes a car pancake. (And then degenerates into dust even though he's not a clone... that would be great) There hasn't been such a useless, belligerent, 2-dimensional character since Paul Stacy. It's fine to have antagonistic supporting-cast members who are bitter and angry at Peter or Spider-Man, but at least do it right and give them a personality and explain why they're flawed. Flash Thompson and JJJ are examples of how to do it right, and still make the characters sympathetic, because there was more to them than just pure spite. Flash showed tenderness towards Liz and Spidey. JJJ had his son John and genuine (if hidden) affection for Robbie and Peter. Vin's annoying because he's just an ass. You never see a human side or anything come out of his mouth that isn't bitter or spiteful. There's no attempt to even show another hidden side or make the audience care about him in the least. His Peter/Spidey hating antics are getting tiresome and I hope this arc does away with him. Al's quite useless too. (In issues past, he's defended Spidey to Vin, but both are fully aware he's involved in the tracer thing? Um, what?)

Also, I don't understand why Pete's spidey-sense didn't tip him off that Lily was shady. Even out of costume it should work. It has in the past. But I guess I can overlook that.

Besides my Vin-hate, it was a solid issue. I'm already liking this arc more than the overrated 'New Ways to Zzzzz' :oldrazz:
 

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