Arrow Arrow S3 E1 The Calm

[luis4u]

I wish they would have killed Felicity instead of Sara.

Olicity fanbase could go on riot..

 

[regnak]

Olicity fanbase could go on riot..

That's what the police are for. t:t:

 

[luis4u]

That's what the police are for. t:t:

t:

 

[Verick808]

Wish this Olicity stuff would go away. Felicity was a great addition to the cast but if they keep shoving that relationship down my throat I might have to stop watching. Or at least DVR it and watch it later so I can fast forward through it. There pretty much zero chemistry there.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Do people really have a problem with Felicity as a character or do they just have a problem with that relationship? Wishing to kill off the character would suggest the former, but that's surprising to me.

Anyway, deciding who lives and who dies based on popularity is bad writing.

 

[luis4u]

Do people really have a problem with Felicity as a character or do they just have a problem with that relationship? Wishing to kill off the character would suggest the former, but that's surprising to me.

Anyway, deciding who lives and who dies based on popularity is bad writing.

I don’t have any problems with felicity.


It's the fact that Oliver declared his love for Felicity that I can't quite get on board with them as a couple. I never really saw any romantic chemistry between Oliver and Felicity. To me, it always came across as a slightly awkward girl who happens to find her fit, good-looking boss attractive, but doesn't necessarily want a relationship. The supposed buildup to their relationship in the second season was mostly the camera focusing on Oliver touching Felicity's shoulder or something similar, with awkward, ill-timed comments by Felicity referencing how attractive Oliver is peppered in. They had the conversation about how Oliver could never be with someone he really cared about, but even then, that only happened because Felicity expressed some jealousy that Oliver would rather hook up with Isabelle than with her. Then there was the season 2 finale, but that didn't even really seem like anything to me.

Now, in the third season, he suddenly loves Felicity? I could have gotten on board with their relationship if it was more about them simply dating and trying to figure out if their supposed feelings are more of a long-term realtionship thing or if it's just a man and a woman who have developed a very close friendship and working relationship. I don't buy that he loves her. That was way too much too fast.

 

[Boy Scout]

I like both Oliver and Felicity, but I don't like their will they/won't they storyline. They made no progress whatsoever, and it looks like they've come to yet another (temporary) standstill. Either put them together or close the door on it forever.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Great episode. Glad to have Arrow back to my Saturday evening line up.

A great WTF?!? ending. Though isn't it a little obvious who the shooter was?

Also I need a reminder? Doesn't Captain Lance know the Oliver/Arrow secret?

Didn't he find out late in Season 2 and even refuse to give him up to get out of prison?

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I don't know relationship could be romantic or just a normal friend relationship

I can’t believe Oliver and Felicity aren’t going to be together. Can you give this Arrow fan any hope? — Tina
Executive producer Marc Guggenheim stresses that you should look at that first kiss-turned break up scene at the hospital as the first of a two-parter, which will continue in episode 2. “This is not the last time we’ll hear the words ‘I love you’ in connection with Oliver and Felicity,” he says. “The repercussions of that scene and that storyline in episode one, that’s going to follow them over the course of season 3. It’s not over. We didn’t just hit pause or reset on their relationship. This is just a development in an ongoing relationship for them.”

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/10/spoiler-room-greys-horror-story-carter-spoilers/

 

[Boy Scout]

It's good they aren't dropping it like I thought they were going to, but I still want them to just get it over with.

 

[godisawesome]

I still say the biggest problem with Sara's death is that it seems like classic case of Woman in Refrigerators Syndrome, and for a character who was already a victim of that.

The first time, where Sara was "killed" on the boat, she was a flat 2-D character created to give Ollie and Laurel angst issues for their romance angle. Then she was brought back, given a powerful presence in the narrative, a fun and universe expanding subplot, some of the better writing on the show...

...only to have her last appearance and eventual fate be not about her, but about Laurel.

I'm not against Katie Cassidy's acting abilities at all, but Laurel as a character was incredibly mishandled for two straight seasons, and to get her back on track, they first undid the end of Sara's arc to have her rejoin the LOA while portraying this fate (which was portrayed as horrible and tragic only what? About four episodes before hand?) as a good thing ("Here sis, take my jacket! I'm off with my psycho, poisoning my own family to make me come back ex-girlfriend to the world I bitterly tried to escape from and was willing to commit suicide to avoid while smiling the whole time!").

Then, her last episode as a living person ends with her appearing out of nowhere with no build up for a fight with one mook, then a brief discussion with Laurel before she gets "bridged" like Captain Kirk (which is a good comparison; it's a "rip the band-aid off" death that while competently executed and purposeful, still feels painfully lackluster) so her sister can have "proper" motivation to be a badass. It's mis-writing in the same way the Slade-Shado-Ollie triangle was executed, but a bit worse (right now) because Sara's initial reason for dying was entirely about Laurel and still is.

It's also a big risk; last year, Manu Bennett as Slade Wilson was a known trump card for the audience and writers, and his place as the A-plot's villain gauranteed effective usage of his time and build up to the ramifications of the still badly written triangle. Laurel is the controversial, inconsistently written, twice de-facto-usurped leading lady who's initial purpose in the show (traditional female audience surrogate and love interest of hero) crashed and burned horribly.

If the writers can't make this worth it for Laurel, it's going to be really bad for the Lance sisters. So here's they do.

 

[Loki882]

-Tommy gets killed off so that Laurel has a reason to be in season 2.
-Kate Spencer dies so that Laurel can get her job back without that pesky "I'm blackmailing the DA" thing hanging over her head.
-Sara dies so that Laurel can become Black Canary.

So how many more characters have to die just to keep Laurel relevant exactly? And speaking of Tommy, he ALSO got a more fitting/heroic death than Sara did. At least he died being proactive and trying to save the woman that he loved.

Also, they pulled this one too many times. Sara appears to die when the boat sinks, oops she's still alive and working for Ivo. She appears to die again, oops she's now a badass assassin turned hero. And now she's apparently REALLY dead this time, make up your minds writers.

 

[Loki882]

I still say the biggest problem with Sara's death is that it seems like classic case of Woman in Refrigerators Syndrome, and for a character who was already a victim of that.

The first time, where Sara was "killed" on the boat, she was a flat 2-D character created to give Ollie and Laurel angst issues for their romance angle. Then she was brought back, given a powerful presence in the narrative, a fun and universe expanding subplot, some of the better writing on the show...

...only to have her last appearance and eventual fate be not about her, but about Laurel.

I'm not against Katie Cassidy's acting abilities at all, but Laurel as a character was incredibly mishandled for two straight seasons, and to get her back on track, they first undid the end of Sara's arc to have her rejoin the LOA while portraying this fate (which was portrayed as horrible and tragic only what? About four episodes before hand?) as a good thing ("Here sis, take my jacket! I'm off with my psycho, poisoning my own family to make me come back ex-girlfriend to the world I bitterly tried to escape from and was willing to commit suicide to avoid while smiling the whole time!").

Then, her last episode as a living person ends with her appearing out of nowhere with no build up for a fight with one mook, then a brief discussion with Laurel before she gets "bridged" like Captain Kirk (which is a good comparison; it's a "rip the band-aid off" death that while competently executed and purposeful, still feels painfully lackluster) so her sister can have "proper" motivation to be a badass. It's mis-writing in the same way the Slade-Shado-Ollie triangle was executed, but a bit worse (right now) because Sara's initial reason for dying was entirely about Laurel and still is.

It's also a big risk; last year, Manu Bennett as Slade Wilson was a known trump card for the audience and writers, and his place as the A-plot's villain gauranteed effective usage of his time and build up to the ramifications of the still badly written triangle. Laurel is the controversial, inconsistently written, twice de-facto-usurped leading lady who's initial purpose in the show (traditional female audience surrogate and love interest of hero) crashed and burned horribly.

If the writers can't make this worth it for Laurel, it's going to be really bad for the Lance sisters. So here's they do.

I think that sometimes stuff like this serves as a good argument AGAINST the whole "writers should stick to their guns" thing. A big recent example is the HIMYM series finale. The writers had this ending in mind from the beginning, and they even shot it years before, and they were determined to stick with that ending no matter what. The problem was that they didn't realize that the show had outgrown that ending, and so when it aired a ton of people were really angry/annoyed. That ending might have worked if the show had ended sooner, but it didn't work in the present because the plot/characters had outgrown it.

In the case of Sara, if they had just left her dead to begin with and gave Laurel some other kind of motivation to become BC (like say Tommy dying because of her own weakness/stupidity), then it might have worked. But instead they brought Sara back, made her into this interesting/badass character with a fascinating backstory, and most of the audience latched onto her. Laurel, on the other hand, has been somewhat mishandled and is a controversial character at best. So for them to stick to their guns on this one might prove to be a mistake. It COULD still work out, but it's a toss-up at this point.

It's different if it's a show like Breaking Bad, where you get the sense that the entire thing was more or less meticulously plotted out in advance (with a few changes here and there like keeping Jessie alive when he was initially supposed to die at the end of Season 1). It works much better there, but Arrow isn't that kind of show. They fact that they all but admitted that they didn't really know what to do with Laurel or Isabel's characters last season proves that.

 

[Tv's Phil]

Eh, I liked Sara and Caity Lotz well enough but I just can't get worked up over this.
I've had no issues with Laurel either.
So...here we are.

 

[Loki882]

Great premiere. I had no issue with the way Sara went out. Whoever it was caught her off guard and was a friendly, likely the reason her defenses were down. It's hard to say it was senseless or meaningless until I see how it plays out, which I'm really looking forward to. I liked the ending. Completely unexpected.

Roy may have the flashier costume, but Ollie has the cooler bow.

See I'm not buying the "she was caught off-guard" part either. One of two things would have had to happen, given how that scene played out. Either:

-The killer would have had to draw an arrow, knock it, raise the bow, and then fire, all while she was looking right at him.

or

-He already had the bow in his hand with the arrow already knocked.

Either way I'm not buying that she didn't have time to react, especially given what we've seen what other (lesser) members of the LOA are capable or. In option A, she should have had time to react given her training. In Option B, she should have had her suspicions raised regardless of if she was friendly with this person or not (why would he have to bow ready to fire if they were the only two people there, red flags go off).

 

[JC00]

See I'm not buying the "she was caught off-guard" part either. One of two things would have had to happen, given how that scene played out. Either:

-The killer would have had to draw an arrow, knock it, raise the bow, and then fire, all while she was looking right at him.

or

-He already had the bow in his hand with the arrow already knocked.

Either way I'm not buying that she didn't have time to react, especially given what we've seen what other (lesser) members of the LOA are capable or. In option A, she should have had time to react given her training. In Option B, she should have had her suspicions raised regardless of if she was friendly with this person or not (why would he have to bow ready to fire if they were the only two people there, red flags go off).

Yep.

They really couldn't have had her swat an arrow or two away before one got her? I also don't buy the theory that I saw that it was someone else that she didn't see that shot her. How that scene went made it clear that the person that said her name was the person that shot her.

 

[JC00]

-Tommy gets killed off so that Laurel has a reason to be in season 2.
-Kate Spencer dies so that Laurel can get her job back without that pesky "I'm blackmailing the DA" thing hanging over her head.
-Sara dies so that Laurel can become Black Canary.

So how many more characters have to die just to keep Laurel relevant exactly? And speaking of Tommy, he ALSO got a more fitting/heroic death than Sara did. At least he died being proactive and trying to save the woman that he loved.

Also, they pulled this one too many times. Sara appears to die when the boat sinks, oops she's still alive and working for Ivo. She appears to die again, oops she's now a badass assassin turned hero. And now she's apparently REALLY dead this time, make up your minds writers.

Remember when they made Diggle and Felicity look like narcs to get Laurel into the main story in the last few episodes last season? Especially after the whole Barry thing. Laurel comes to them and says she knows Oliver is Arrow and not only do they confirm it but they bring her to the foundry.

 

[Herolee10]

-Tommy gets killed off so that Laurel has a reason to be in season 2.
-Kate Spencer dies so that Laurel can get her job back without that pesky "I'm blackmailing the DA" thing hanging over her head.
-Sara dies so that Laurel can become Black Canary.

So how many more characters have to die just to keep Laurel relevant exactly? And speaking of Tommy, he ALSO got a more fitting/heroic death than Sara did. At least he died being proactive and trying to save the woman that he loved.

My honest guess would be that Felicity will probably be the next/last person to die in order for Laurel to become fully relevant to the show since Felicity is by far the more popular female lead character on the show and they'll probably want to kill her off so that no one can dispute on who the female lead is.

 

[Verick808]

Maybe, or they might just write her off. Sara dying just made more sense then her simply leaving but Felicity could just move on, assuming she really does leave. Honestly I just wish they would stop with this Olicity stuff. I don't get what the chemistry everyone is supposedly is. Mostly it's just been Felicity staring at his abs. If that's all it takes to create chemistry then I better start working out again.

 

[Herolee10]

Maybe, or they might just write her off. Sara dying just made more sense then her simply leaving but Felicity could just move on, assuming she really does leave. Honestly I just wish they would stop with this Olicity stuff. I don't get what the chemistry everyone is supposedly is. Mostly it's just been Felicity staring at his abs. If that's all it takes to create chemistry then I better start working out again.

I think one of the reasons why people ship those two together is because she was probably the first female character on the show that wasn't so "angst" filled and allowed Oliver's character to interact with someone that could bring out some natural comedic elements. Whether or not that justifies them being together is another thing of course.

 

[Human Torch]

I still say the biggest problem with Sara's death is that it seems like classic case of Woman in Refrigerators Syndrome, and for a character who was already a victim of that.

The first time, where Sara was "killed" on the boat, she was a flat 2-D character created to give Ollie and Laurel angst issues for their romance angle. Then she was brought back, given a powerful presence in the narrative, a fun and universe expanding subplot, some of the better writing on the show...

...only to have her last appearance and eventual fate be not about her, but about Laurel.

I'm not against Katie Cassidy's acting abilities at all, but Laurel as a character was incredibly mishandled for two straight seasons, and to get her back on track, they first undid the end of Sara's arc to have her rejoin the LOA while portraying this fate (which was portrayed as horrible and tragic only what? About four episodes before hand?) as a good thing ("Here sis, take my jacket! I'm off with my psycho, poisoning my own family to make me come back ex-girlfriend to the world I bitterly tried to escape from and was willing to commit suicide to avoid while smiling the whole time!").

Then, her last episode as a living person ends with her appearing out of nowhere with no build up for a fight with one mook, then a brief discussion with Laurel before she gets "bridged" like Captain Kirk (which is a good comparison; it's a "rip the band-aid off" death that while competently executed and purposeful, still feels painfully lackluster) so her sister can have "proper" motivation to be a badass. It's mis-writing in the same way the Slade-Shado-Ollie triangle was executed, but a bit worse (right now) because Sara's initial reason for dying was entirely about Laurel and still is.

It's also a big risk; last year, Manu Bennett as Slade Wilson was a known trump card for the audience and writers, and his place as the A-plot's villain gauranteed effective usage of his time and build up to the ramifications of the still badly written triangle. Laurel is the controversial, inconsistently written, twice de-facto-usurped leading lady who's initial purpose in the show (traditional female audience surrogate and love interest of hero) crashed and burned horribly.

If the writers can't make this worth it for Laurel, it's going to be really bad for the Lance sisters. So here's they do.

I have to admit the "Woman in Refrigerators " thing came to mind.I was wondering if anyone would bring it up.

The fact of the matter is (and not to beat a dead horse-'cause I said this from day one) they shot themselves in the foot when they decided to make Sara proto-BC.It backfired on them to have an actress so gifted play the role,with a far richer backstory and looks like she stepped from the panels of the comic.Far better to never know the forbidden fruit existed,than to know and be constantly reminded of what could've been.Whether Cassidy is as good or better than Lotz as BC will always be a needless line of contention now.

People were bound to be disappointed when they suddenly ripped her out of the show like an afterthought.They couldn't make up their mind what to do with her (or more accurately, when to do it to her) and half ***** her out the door.I can only imagine they have a contractual obligation with Cassidy,since there is no viable reason for such an unceremonious exit for the character,unless it's to make Cassidy's BC look better by comparison.

 

[Human Torch]

My honest guess would be that Felicity will probably be the next/last person to die in order for Laurel to become fully relevant to the show since Felicity is by far the more popular female lead character on the show and they'll probably want to kill her off so that no one can dispute on who the female lead is.

I doubt they'll kill her off as they seem to spend inordinate amount of time trying to placate her shippers.

I do think ultimately they have Laurel as the end game,much like Smallville had Clark still end up with Lois.

 

[Human Torch]

Maybe, or they might just write her off. Sara dying just made more sense then her simply leaving but Felicity could just move on, assuming she really does leave. Honestly I just wish they would stop with this Olicity stuff. I don't get what the chemistry everyone is supposedly is. Mostly it's just been Felicity staring at his abs. If that's all it takes to create chemistry then I better start working out again.

Yeah,I agree.I don't really get the "thrill" people seem have by their interaction.It was cute when they first met and she'd say the wrong thing and everyone would laugh.But I can't see turning that into a successful relationship.

I think by and large most of their fans (probably a majority of women) like seeing the "average" girl getting the hot guy.The usual trope has the hero as the "nerd" in his civilian guise in this scenario,pining after the hot girl.(Spider-Man,now Flash,apparently.)

 

[Mike Murdock]

She appears to die again, oops she's now a badass assassin turned hero.

Uh, clearly that one wasn't intended to be a fakeout at all. You knew from early in the season she wouldn't die on Ivo's boat since she appeared in present day. That death was only to explain why Ollie thought she was dead.

Of course, that's probably part of the reason why this death has to be real. They probably can't get away with faking her death once more.

I do agree with the thoughts above me that, when it comes to making Laurel the Black Canary, they really did shoot themselves in the foot. That being said, I'm not going to fault the creators of the show for having an interesting, likable, enjoyable character on it. Season 2 was far better for having Sara on it. They have a tough road ahead, but the episodes in the past can still stand on their own merits. While Sara's death was not good, I'll wait until next week to at least see if her funeral is handled well.

 

[DrCosmic]

See I'm not buying the "she was caught off-guard" part either. One of two things would have had to happen, given how that scene played out. Either:

-The killer would have had to draw an arrow, knock it, raise the bow, and then fire, all while she was looking right at him.

or

-He already had the bow in his hand with the arrow already knocked.

Either way I'm not buying that she didn't have time to react, especially given what we've seen what other (lesser) members of the LOA are capable or. In option A, she should have had time to react given her training. In Option B, she should have had her suspicions raised regardless of if she was friendly with this person or not (why would he have to bow ready to fire if they were the only two people there, red flags go off).

Yes... that's what happens when you are off guard. You don't guard. That's why it's called off guard.

Sometimes, we sort of deify fighting skills and forget that skills are still in the package of a human being, a human being who has emotions, who can be taken advantage of. If Ra's Al Ghul shows up in your hometown, and you know who he is, you have too much WTF in your head to go into defense mode for a second, if you're a human being instead of a fighting robot. Fighting robots don't have WTF moments. Fighting robots don't get caught off guard, not really. People do though.

I think to see this as "bad writing" or "not understandable" you'd have to believe that these people are fighting robots, whose fighting "programming" overrides any and every other thought no matter what, even though we saw Oliver off guard by Sara just moments ago, and she very well could have killed him if she had so desired. It's sad, to me, that this segment of the audience downplays the human aspects of these characters just because they're badasses. It's the human part that makes them interesting, being badasses just makes them fun.

I still say the biggest problem with Sara's death is that it seems like classic case of Woman in Refrigerators Syndrome, and for a character who was already a victim of that.

The first time, where Sara was "killed" on the boat, she was a flat 2-D character created to give Ollie and Laurel angst issues for their romance angle. Then she was brought back, given a powerful presence in the narrative, a fun and universe expanding subplot, some of the better writing on the show...

...only to have her last appearance and eventual fate be not about her, but about Laurel.

I'm not against Katie Cassidy's acting abilities at all, but Laurel as a character was incredibly mishandled for two straight seasons, and to get her back on track, they first undid the end of Sara's arc to have her rejoin the LOA while portraying this fate (which was portrayed as horrible and tragic only what? About four episodes before hand?) as a good thing ("Here sis, take my jacket! I'm off with my psycho, poisoning my own family to make me come back ex-girlfriend to the world I bitterly tried to escape from and was willing to commit suicide to avoid while smiling the whole time!").

Then, her last episode as a living person ends with her appearing out of nowhere with no build up for a fight with one mook, then a brief discussion with Laurel before she gets "bridged" like Captain Kirk (which is a good comparison; it's a "rip the band-aid off" death that while competently executed and purposeful, still feels painfully lackluster) so her sister can have "proper" motivation to be a badass. It's mis-writing in the same way the Slade-Shado-Ollie triangle was executed, but a bit worse (right now) because Sara's initial reason for dying was entirely about Laurel and still is.

It's also a big risk; last year, Manu Bennett as Slade Wilson was a known trump card for the audience and writers, and his place as the A-plot's villain gauranteed effective usage of his time and build up to the ramifications of the still badly written triangle. Laurel is the controversial, inconsistently written, twice de-facto-usurped leading lady who's initial purpose in the show (traditional female audience surrogate and love interest of hero) crashed and burned horribly.

If the writers can't make this worth it for Laurel, it's going to be really bad for the Lance sisters. So here's they do.

Remember, Sara's death isn't all about Laurel, it's a plot thread that fires up for everyone. Laurel is the hardest hit, but little things like the LoA and this Arrow guy are going to be very much driven by it as well. Based on the Calm, they have her doing what she should have been doing the whole time, and based on her workout regiment, they have her doing what everyone expects from her... I don't think the mis-handling is going to be much more concern. It's tempting to see it as an exchange of the butt kicking Sara for the alcoholic Laurel, but the reality is both are part of a tapestry.