Arrow Arrow Season 3, Episode 7 "Draw Back Your Bow" General Discussion

[Nathan]

Having Ollie hand Cupid off to Waller was dumb as ****.I don't know why any of them continue to have dealings with that woman.

Especially when you remember that it took her own Suicide Squad to stop her from turning Starling City into rubble. And this is the same person that was willing to blow up a full plane of passengers, because of 1 single Target. B**ch be crazy.

There are different incarnations of Waller throughout comics, cartoons and live action, and for each one I can feel a bit of respect. Especially the JLU version. But this Waller is ****ing mental.

 

[Infinight888]

He know Malcom is bad and what he's capable of and yet he still chooses to protect him from the LOA, calling for war against them and all for the sake of Malcom, because of Thea?

Nissa already abducted Thea once to get to Malcolm. The League knows that she's his weakness now. If the League comes after Malcolm again, then they'll do it through Oliver's sister. What Oliver doesn't want is for Thea to get stuck in the crossfire of a war between Malcolm and the League. Oliver is also not a murderer anymore, so he's not going to take the easy way out and just kill him or hand him over to the League to be killed, so protecting him, and by extension, his sister, is the only logical course of action.

 

[the dmg]

I don't really get the criticism of Digg this episode.He's at a place where he's happy with his (kinda-sorta) wife and baby and he sees his two best friends that are clearly into each other needing a push.So he (briefly) talks to them both about it. I know "Olicity" isn't really popular around here,but let's not make Digg out to be your match-making Aunt Edna!

Exactly. He's not playing match maker, he's trying to get them to open up to each other.

I really liked Roy and Ollie going to Digg's for dinner.With Thanksgiving on the way,I'd like to think that was their Thanksgiving.t:

Same.

Having Ollie hand Cupid off to Waller was dumb as ****.I don't know why any of them continue to have dealings with that woman.

What if he needs a favor in the future? "Hey Waller, remember I handed you psycho, I'm cashing in."

 

[Human Torch]

It's about people wanting Felicity to be happy more than Oliver getting his heart broken. At least that's the reaction i've seen online. Me personally, yeah, he is unlikable, but that's what makes him a unique hero in alot of ways. He's not supposed to be a likable guy like Barry Allen or Steve Rogers. He's a jerk, at least in this iteration .

But we're supposed to believe she'll only be happy with Ollie.Ollie broke it off (for the classic SH 'Good intentions'- I love it.) and she moved on,but she's still got a thing for Ollie as evidenced by her talk with Digg.

I mean,lets face it,Felicity can take her pick.If she were really over Ollie,it wouldn't take the ton of schmoozing by Ray to get as far as he has with her.(which,really isn't very far,in all honesty)

I'll admit,the Olicity thing is the ONLY thing I can hang my hat on with the show so far.

I hate Sara's death & subsequent mystery.
I have zero interest in Laurel as BC
Ra's brief cameo was underwhelming as ****
They've done next to nothing on the Malcolm/Thea front
Flashbacks have ranged from "ok" to downright unmemorable
Ray is great,but hasn't gotten much to do (sans being the third side of the impending triangle.)

Apart from Roy kinda-sorta getting some "bro-time" with Ollie,the Olicity storyline is the only thing that's working.

 

[Frodo]

The criticism of Ollie in here is just bizarre to me, why would he be more upset about losing a company he never really cared about than seeing the smug *****e who took it from him making out with the women he loves?

If you were really doing what Ollie is doing you couldn't be a nice guy all the time and you'd be racked with guilt and conflict, the mission vs the hope of some form of happiness has always been a part of a character like Ollie.

I genuinely get the underlying feeling that most would be happy if they stuck Ollie permanently with Laurel and just concentrated on fighting baddies every week with no human drama at all.



That's not how real human emotions work, if they did everyone would be in blissfully happy relationships, it's more complicated sadly.

I think the thing is , he's not supposed to be entirely sympathetic. He was a jerk before he got on the island and was running around with two sisters. He was a spoiled rich frat boy. When he came back he matured and found discipline and purpose, but at the same time he is emotionally unavailable while being needy and selfish. I'm critical of his character's actions in relation to Felicity , but its good that i'm critical because it means the writers are fleshing him out as if he were a real person. If he were cookie cutter good guy or even just a moody guy no one would care. The fact that you have such polarized opinions on him is a good thing. It means the writers have done their job in showing that Ollie isn't always right nor always wrong. He's flawed like Peter Parker and Logan.

I like that the writers have given the character enough dimensions to either personally dislike or be critical of their actions. You can still think the guy is a good hero and kinda a jerk at the same time. To me those two things aren't in conflict. Its what makes him interesting imo.

 

[DarKush]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the Saint Walker Easter Egg yet.

Which one was that? Also, regarding the other Easter Eggs, when was Sherwood Florist mentioned? And who is Mr. Gardner?

 

[SV Fan]

I don't really get the criticism of Digg this episode.He's at a place where he's happy with his (kinda-sorta) wife and baby and he sees his two best friends that are clearly into each other needing a push.So he (briefly) talks to them both about it. I know "Olicity" isn't really popular around here,but let's not make Digg out to be your match-making Aunt Edna!

I personally felt this episode could have been 100 times better if they just got rid of all the Olicity fan pandering, to me it just felt like the producers know that Olicity fans expect something so they gave them the first episode, not much the next few episodes, then gave them this episode to try make them happy. My guess is the next few episodes we won't get much Olicity pandering beyond the occasional off hand comment or constipated look at eachother till we get another Olicity heavy episode to pander to the shippers. That to me is bad writing and in the case of Diggle to reduce him to nothing more then an Olicity cheerleader is a waste of his character.

It's also a case they got Diggle to be the voice of Olicity because well it gives fans of Laurel a reasonable doubt that Oliver didn't say one thing about Felicity, it was only Diggle who was putting words in Olivers mouth. The fact Oliver neither openly agreed or denied what Diggle said will just renforce the fans of what ever character they prefer want to believe. It's writing like this I expect from soap operas and the CW.

 

[Mikelus]

Oliver saving Malcolm made no sense. Never has, still doesn't, and never will.

Oliver handing Cupid over to Waller, as presented, was very convenient, came out of nowhere, and an odd choice on his behalf. A prison cell would've been able to hold her just fine. That said, I don't find it nearly as illogical as protecting Malcolm Merlyn.

Lazy writing indeed, it seems Cupid will be this squad's Harley, that's the real reason, the rest is BS. When you really want to help someone, you get that person the treatment he/she needs, not a psycho like Waller. On Malcolm, he escaping both Nyssa and Ollie would've been better, he can take care of himself.

Thea is now boring again with her new love interest, and the whole Oliver watching Felicity and Ray kissing, just some good old soap opera 101... thanks CW!!

I'll admit,the Olicity thing is the ONLY thing I can hang my hat on with the show so far.

I hate Sara's death & subsequent mystery.
I have zero interest in Laurel as BC
Ra's brief cameo was underwhelming as ****
They've done next to nothing on the Malcolm/Thea front
Flashbacks have ranged from "ok" to downright unmemorable
Ray is great,but hasn't gotten much to do (sans being the third side of the impending triangle.)

Apart from Roy kinda-sorta getting some "bro-time" with Ollie,the Olicity storyline is the only thing that's working.

So, you are an Olicity shipper then?

The problem with Oliver and Felicity's relationship is that she deserves better than a womanizer like Oliver, is just not believable. Besides, is just too predictable, they'll be a couple for a while just to appease the freaking shippers and then what? Oliver and Dinah Laurel have a long tradition in the comics and the producers said this:

Arrow: Andrew Kreisberg Talks About The State Of Oliver & Laurel

Kreisberg appealed to the iconic comic book pairing as being like “Lois and Clark” – “they can break up, get together, sleep together, break up, get married, get divorced, she forgives him,” he points out… but he did admit that with the success of the show, “Lauriver” is one of those things that they can take their time on.

“Having Oliver and Laurel get together in Season 1 was what people needed then, but then they needed them to go on a break, so Oliver can have his storyline with Sara for this season, which is what felt right to us. He has women in his life. He has Laurel, he has Felicity… Helena’s doing a 10-to-20 stretch… so I think that Laurel will always be one of the closest people to him, whether that’s romantic or not,” Andrew continued.

Kreisberg is well aware that some fans have questioned decisions and the sanity of the folks bringing Arrow to life, and that inevitably, some fans will be upset, but there is a plan. “I think that a lot of the things that we have done, have been leading up to what we’re doing in the finale, and then moving that forward to Season 3,” he said.

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-andrew-kreisberg-talks-about-the-state-of-oliver-laurel/16823

And Roy has been pretty lame so far, Colton Haynes needs some acting classes, the producers are not giving him much to do for a reason.

 

[SV Fan]

Oliver and Felicity..............they'll be a couple for a while just to appease the freaking shippers and then what?

I would be surprised if by series end Oliver and Felicity are a couple for more then 2 episodes in a row. it will just be a couple of nuts the producers throw towards the fans of Olicity every now and then but in the big picture it will just go nowhere and do absolutely no favors for either character since they will either come of looking angst filled or stupid

As you and I in the post above you pointed out, it's the CW at it's worst

 

[Human Torch]

So, you are an Olicity shipper then?

I don't suppose so.That would suggest I actively want them to get together.I've never really felt the spark between them that Olicity shippers presumably see.

But I like how it's being written,so I can go along with it.I wanted to see him with Sara,but that's out.And I really don't know that having him with Laurel is that much better an option.So,barring Sara's dip in the Lazarus Pit,I guess I'm on team Olicity.

 

[Human Torch]

Seriously though,I'm not sure how much of this is really "pandering".If they were to pander to every loud fan group,they wouldn't have killed Sara over Laurel.

I don't doubt they want to appeal to the shippers,but they have no plans for Ollie to be with Laurel this season (since she's still on Canary Road.) So it's just the smart move to play up the Olicity thing now,before switching things to Laurel for the Arrow/BC comic style pairing in subsequent seasons.

 

[SV Fan]

I don't doubt they want to appeal to the shippers,but they have no plans for Ollie to be with Laurel this season (since she's still on Canary Road.) So it's just the smart move to play up the Olicity thing now,before switching things to Laurel for the Arrow/BC comic style pairing in subsequent seasons.

I disagree if they want to hold off on Oliver/Laurel, they should just bring in a 1 season (character) love interest. The problem with Felicity assuming she stays on the show till it's end is the relationship will have to much baggage for future relationships, beyond that since there isn't an expire date to the character, they are dragging it on for as long as they can(which only leads to over melodramatic storylines)

 

[regnak]

Seriously though,I'm not sure how much of this is really "pandering".If they were to pander to every loud fan group,they wouldn't have killed Sara over Laurel.

I don't doubt they want to appeal to the shippers,but they have no plans for Ollie to be with Laurel this season (since she's still on Canary Road.) So it's just the smart move to play up the Olicity thing now,before switching things to Laurel for the Arrow/BC comic style pairing in subsequent seasons.

They don't have to turn Diggle into a cheer leader though. It demeans him.

 

[Snow Queen]

Putting Cupid on the Suicide Squad is a terrible idea from Oliver and only seems like it happened because DC said they couldn't use Harley.

 

[Nathan]

Even if true, at least don't actually tell us that Ollie made the call. He could have sent her to Prison, or somewhere to get the proper treatment, and Waller could have recruited her like the rest of the Squad. But don't actually have Oliver hand people over.

 

[SpideyVille]

Putting Cupid on the Suicide Squad is a terrible idea from Oliver and only seems like it happened because DC said they couldn't use Harley.

I think that's exactly the reason why. We already know we won't see her on the show, but this seemed like their way of telling us that the Squad no longer has her.

 

[regnak]

Even if true, at least don't actually tell us that Ollie made the call. He could have sent her to Prison, or somewhere to get the proper treatment, and Waller could have recruited her like the rest of the Squad. But don't actually have Oliver hand people over.

What if Oliver had a mental breakdown off screen after Sara was killed? That would explain a lot. Not only giving Cupid to Waller but his decision to protect Merlyn, his irrational behavior towards Ted Grant and caring more about Felicity's date than his family legacy being erased.(since the name of the company was about all that was left of his parents legacy it should have hit him very hard.)

 

[Rorschach2012]

whats the Saint Walker reference?

i think Hal Jordan will definitely show up next season on Flash or Arrow. Johns said they aren't doing pointless easter eggs. they wouldn't keep hinting at Ferris air if they weren't gonna do Hal

and Stephen Amell's comments on Green Lantern kinda indicate that he'll be showing up

 

[Hunter Rider]

Batman retired with Selina Kyle in TDKR and passed the mantle on. Amell has zero chemistry with Cassidy but a tonne with Emily, just because the books have always went one way it doesn't mean the show should, even if their intentions were that when they started out.

I'm not even gonna bother responding to my old "shipper pandering" sparring partner, but they will keep things going with Ollie and Felicity because like myself and Human Torch, a lot of the fanbase think they are one of the best parts of the show.

In the end of this actual interpretation Ollie should lay down the bow and leave Starling for Roy and Thea to protect, go and have a life with Felicity, or if she's dead go fishing with Diggle.

Exactly!


I just lost the woman I love to a rich and powerful,good looking guy- b-but they finally changed the name on my company that I lost a year ago!

Heh! For the most part the company was a means to an end, a cover and funding excercise for his work as Arrow.

I think the thing is , he's not supposed to be entirely sympathetic. He was a jerk before he got on the island and was running around with two sisters. He was a spoiled rich frat boy. When he came back he matured and found discipline and purpose, but at the same time he is emotionally unavailable while being needy and selfish. I'm critical of his character's actions in relation to Felicity , but its good that i'm critical because it means the writers are fleshing him out as if he were a real person. If he were cookie cutter good guy or even just a moody guy no one would care. The fact that you have such polarized opinions on him is a good thing. It means the writers have done their job in showing that Ollie isn't always right nor always wrong. He's flawed like Peter Parker and Logan.

I like that the writers have given the character enough dimensions to either personally dislike or be critical of their actions. You can still think the guy is a good hero and kinda a jerk at the same time. To me those two things aren't in conflict. Its what makes him interesting imo.

I see a lot of side taking in here, I see those who clearly want it to follow the books despite it not making sense, I see those that enjoy the direction it's going, and I see party 3 who don't really want Ollie to mature as a man but bang some new chick each season while fighting lots of people.

Your post though man, it's the best one in here. I think it's clear where my view lies so I can't say I am not in one of the above mentioned groups, but your post is a good analysis of what the show is doing with Ollie and why it's refreshing and on point regardless of the side of the coin you land on as a viewer.

 

[Nathan]

whats the Saint Walker reference?

i think Hal Jordan will definitely show up next season on Flash or Arrow. Johns said they aren't doing pointless easter eggs. they wouldn't keep hinting at Ferris air if they weren't gonna do Hal

and Stephen Amell's comments on Green Lantern kinda indicate that he'll be showing up

You know, I kept thinking for a while that they couldn't pull of Green Lantern on a TV budget, but I'm starting to come around. CGI Flash is still obvious, but looks good for TV, so they can certainly create a CGI double of Hal flying, as long as they don't focus on the model and mostly use it for ranged shots. Light constructs basically only need to look like holograms. Just make them more solid looking than the the hologram of Palmer's suit.

The only thing that would worry me is the costume. I don't want it to look anything like Flash's or Arrow's costume. None of that regular fabric and leather.

 

[Boy Scout]

So you'd rather him help the league catch his sister's father so they can kill him?

I'd rather he not start a war with the entire organization over a man responsible for over 500 deaths.

Thea rightfully could never forgive him for something like that.

1) I can't imagine that Oliver would tell her anything about it.

2) As far as Oliver is concerned, Thea believes that Malcolm is a terrible person. Why would he suspect that she would object to his death?

I don't care if your dad is a mass murderer. There is that biological bond that can not be overcome.

I could not disagree more.

Nissa already abducted Thea once to get to Malcolm. The League knows that she's his weakness now. If the League comes after Malcolm again, then they'll do it through Oliver's sister.

You've just described exactly why Oliver placing Malcolm under his protection was so stupid. Because of his actions, his sister is still a target.

Oliver is also not a murderer anymore, so he's not going to take the easy way out and just kill him or hand him over to the League to be killed, so protecting him, and by extension, his sister, is the only logical course of action.

There's nothing logical about it. He killed Count Vertigo just last year to protect Felicity and didn't feel guilty about it. Why isn't he willing to do essentially the same thing for his sister, especially when you consider that the alternative he chose does absolutely nothing to guarantee her safety?

Even if true, at least don't actually tell us that Ollie made the call. He could have sent her to Prison, or somewhere to get the proper treatment, and Waller could have recruited her like the rest of the Squad. But don't actually have Oliver hand people over.

RE: Oliver: I agree with Frodo.

 

[Mikelus]

Amell has zero chemistry with Cassidy but a tonne with Emily, just because the books have always went one way it doesn't mean the show should, even if their intentions were that when they started out.

Chemistry is very subjective, many SV fans (specially shippers) claimed Welling had "zero chemistry" with Erica Durance, which was not really the case. The chemistry was there, people are just biased sometimes.

Well, Cupid now joins Roy and Thea in becoming a super archer after just six months... I guess Laurel will be a badass Black Canary in a similar period of time. The producers are really earning the bashing this season is getting with such poor decisions, if Ra's Al Ghul fails to impress next time, it will get even uglier for them.

 

[justinslot]

My favorite part was FINALLY KATANA DOING KATANA STUFF.

Brandon Routh is awesome.

And I find it amazing with all the Australians working in Hollywood they couldn't find one to play Boomerbutt.

 

[Herolee10]

Well, Cupid now joins Roy and Thea in becoming a super archer after just six months... I guess Laurel will be a badass Black Canary in a similar period of time. The producers are really earning the bashing this season is getting with such poor decisions, if Ra's Al Ghul fails to impress next time, it will get even uglier for them.

Well in Cupid's case, at least they were smart enough to establish that she was a member of SWAT before going completely A-Wall, thus a reasonable explanation as to how she's able to handle herself on a general level.

In regards to the Archery thing, I can't say that we saw enough of her "skills" to judge the producers for that one.

If she did nothing but train in archery for 6 months straight, then it's not that hard to assume that she might be able somewhat okay with the tool.

Now if she was already a MASTER archer and portrayed as such, then that would be a whole new story.


I keep thinking though, back to Yao Fei's comment to Fryers on how Archery is something that would take a person YEARS to master.lol

 

[Nathan]

I think they actually did a good job of not portraying Cupid as a pro with the bow. Her skill with a bow seemed to be pretty basic. She hit 2 slow walking cops in the legs, and one guy in cuffs in the chest.

The first time she tried to shoot Ollie, he dodged the arrow without any effort, and immediately disarmed her.