Assassin´s Creed III - Part 1

[Wolvieboy17]

That comparison still holds because AC is a FRANCHISE and FRANCHISES don't live or die based one character, one player, or sports figure.Does the US government collapse everytime there is a shift in leadership? Does James Bond movies stop making money because the actors change.Should the bulls have stopped playing basketball because Micheal Jordan retired. After all he wrote the greatest narrative in NBA history as the most clutch and greatest player in the leagues history arguably There are literally thousand of examples of franchises that continue on after major changes.

In my opinion its ridiculous to believe that Desmond not being part of the FRANCHISE is going to change any quality of future games. DESMOND is narrative element nothing MORE.IF this was a beloved character that had decades of fan support and love then possibly I could understand. However this is a completely different form of media where 99.9% of how a game is perceived is about gameplay, and graphics.Anybody could be hooked into the Animus and as long as the gameplay is on par or surpasses the last installment the franchise will stand up. IF the controls are clunky and the gameplay is terrible you could have a oscar award winning story and nobody will play it.

No, that comparison DOESN'T hold, because he wasn't talking about just the franchise, he was talking about the narrative scope of the story that accompanies Desmond. The overall focus of the current trilogy is of Desmond saving the planet by dire situations. All the cool Templar vs Assassins stuff serves to add background to that overarching point.

The original point made was that, after this Desmond storyline, how will they be able to main the high stakes of the story telling AFTER the world has been saved? This is definitely a valid question. He wasn't suggesting that it COULDN'T be done, he was wondering how they would. And his Star Wars comparison was a good one, I'll add another one.

It's like The Matrix. The first film was a tight, concise story that works as it's own thing from beginning to end. But you add the other films and it suddenly changes the scope of the story. Now, they might not be the worst films but it changes the focus and whether the creators wanted to or not, potentially undermines the dramatic impact of the first film.

When you look at Star Wars in its entirety it is about Anakin not because I say so or anyone else its like that because the CREATOR said so.Now you can interpet the quality of his work any way you like(which I am a fan of), however whatever he says about the characters and story goes down as fact. You can argue that all you like.... to someone else.I do not argue hard facts I think its a practice in futility... but thats just me being reasonable and we know that doesn't have anyplace on the internet.

You might think you're being reasonable but you're actually being stubborn and shortsighted. The comparison to Star Wars was also apt because if AC was Star Wars, we would be just about to experience Return of the Jedi... There HAS been no extended, expanded universe yet. Sure, the next trilogy might be all about Warren Vidic and I'm sure 8 years from now, someone like you will be arguing in a forum "No, AC was always about Warren Vidic, Ubisoft said so!" But at this point in time, the focus is Desmond so there is obviously speculation of where a story could go beyond that, just as was the case with Star Wars.

And further more, Star Wars as an example shows us that the next trilogy could be anything. It could be a prequel, it could be a sequel, it could be happening concurrently or it could be something different altogether.

Distilling it down to a basic comparison with a Madden sports game is just ridiculous. I suppose by that logic, Uncharted would be unaffected if the next game didn't have Drake or any of the known characters? Or Max Payne 4 starring Joe Bloggs? You are massively undermining the importance of story in a narrative driven game franchise. That's not to say a series has to live and die by a protagonist but it's no where near as cut and dry as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

When you look at Star Wars in its entirety it is about Anakin not because I say so or anyone else its like that because the CREATOR said so.Now you can interpet the quality of his work any way you like(which I am a fan of), however whatever he says about the characters and story goes down as fact..

Kind of like how Greedo shot first?

 

[Paradox1]

No, that comparison DOESN'T hold, because he wasn't talking about just the franchise,

You can't know that unless you read minds your making an assumption. secondly its how I interpreted it.

he was talking about the narrative scope of the story that accompanies Desmond. The overall focus of the current trilogy is of Desmond saving the planet by dire situations. All the cool Templar vs Assassins stuff serves to add background to that overarching point.

The Desmond parts of the game really hold no weight of dire circumstances for me. The whole saving the world thing in 2012 is so cliche. *Spolier* The way Desmond saves the world is probably gonna be really underwhelming. Probably gonna be a map, some platforming, hit a bunch of switches, cliffhanger, roll credits.I hate the Desmond parts of the story and game.

The original point made was that, after this Desmond storyline, how will they be able to main the high stakes of the story telling AFTER the world has been saved?

How is Avengers 2 gonna top an Alien invasion in Avengers one? another alien invasion probably? See where I'm going there. Seriously though Desmond isn't the Messiah there is still gonna be a war between Assassins and Templars there is still first civilization artifacts out there that can be used to enslave mankind. There is a lot to work with to keep the stakes high.

You might think you're being reasonable but you're actually being stubborn and shortsighted. The comparison to Star Wars was also apt because if AC was Star Wars, we would be just about to experience Return of the Jedi... There HAS been no extended, expanded universe yet. Sure, the next trilogy might be all about Warren Vidic and I'm sure 8 years from now, someone like you will be arguing in a forum "No, AC was always about Warren Vidic, Ubisoft said so!" But at this point in time, the focus is Desmond so there is obviously speculation of where a story could go beyond that, just as was the case with Star Wars.

However unlike Star Wars in Return of the Jedi there is an expanded universe in place. AC as a franchise as has already spanned several comic books, novels, and movies. Then can you believe....that some of these other stories have nothing to do with Desmond. I mean seriously the nerve of these guys building a video game franchise not centered around a single character. So they can consistently breath new life into their franchise darn them. In a way the real central character in the AC franchise that they can never do without is the Animus.

Distilling it down to a basic comparison with a Madden sports game is just ridiculous. I suppose by that logic, Uncharted would be unaffected if the next game didn't have Drake or any of the known characters? Or Max Payne 4 starring Joe Bloggs? You are massively undermining the importance of story in a narrative driven game franchise. That's not to say a series has to live and die by a protagonist but it's no where near as cut and dry as you seem to be suggesting.

Read again my last post carefully Desmond as a character is nowhere near as loved as Drake. Desmond has nowhere near the history of Max Payne who is on his second generation of consoles.

Kind of like how Greedo shot first?

Man, I had to look that up I never ever heard of the who shot first controversy. I love Star Wars I have seen the original verision thousands of times but I don't get into the other stuff. I never heard about the EU of Star Wars til about 10yrs ago. I love the OT i can recite whole scenes, again I'm a fan however I don't sweat the details. I'm a 3d artist so I have different view and whatever I create is like my child I kid you not I carry pictures of them in my iphone. So as an artist no one can tell me whats what with my work and I change and alter my stuff all the time. As I suppose all artist know a piece of art is done when its done.

 

[SpideyVille]

When I said Star Wars was about Luke, I meant in the beginning with the Original Trilogy, the stories were more about him and the whole Jedi/Sith thing. But later on, aside from the prequel trilogy, there was so much added about that whole universe where you now have tv shows, books, games, etc that continue to add to the whole history of that world. Personally, I've never been a big SW fan. I appreciate the story of the movies, but not so much any of the other stuff. I kinda feel like that's how I'm going to look at the AC series after ACIII. I really like Desmond's story and I'm eager to see how it concludes, but knowing how big this world is and stuff, I don't know if I will be interested in seeing other stories that have nothing to do with what the last 4-5 games have been about.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I feel bad that you went to all that effort to multi-quote and still spectacularly missed the point.

Also, if you'd actually read this sentence

He wasn't suggesting that it COULDN'T be done, he was wondering how they would.

You probably could have saved yourself a few paragraphs.

 

[Paradox1]

When I said Star Wars was about Luke, I meant in the beginning with the Original Trilogy, the stories were more about him and the whole Jedi/Sith thing. But later on, aside from the prequel trilogy, there was so much added about that whole universe where you now have tv shows, books, games, etc that continue to add to the whole history of that world. Personally, I've never been a big SW fan. I appreciate the story of the movies, but not so much any of the other stuff. I kinda feel like that's how I'm going to look at the AC series after ACIII. I really like Desmond's story and I'm eager to see how it concludes, but knowing how big this world is and stuff, I don't know if I will be interested in seeing other stories that have nothing to do with what the last 4-5 games have been about.

I don't remember what I said initially but I was saying Desmond is no Luke skywalker

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

He is in the context of his comparison though....


From Star Wars to Jedi, the story was about Luke. A concise story of how a man unaware of his great future was taught by the greatest Jedi and would help overthrow a tyrannical Empire, saving the galaxy. Swap out Jedi for Assassin, Empire for Corporation and galaxy for planet, and you've got Desmond.


The EU for Star Wars all added to that story, then the prequels shifted the focus from Luke to Anakin. A lot of the EU is just adding to the story of Anakin and him being the Chosen One.

 

[Paradox1]

I mean in terms of love he is no Luke Skywalker.

 

[Benstamania]

I strangely want an Assassins Creed game set in the Star Wars Universe now...

 

[Paradox1]

I agree with that

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I strangely want an Assassins Creed game set in the Star Wars Universe now...

Haha hell yea.

 

[jacobed]

Ah man your hidden blade is a small lightsaber. Thatd be awesome

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Man, I had to look that up I never ever heard of the who shot first controversy. I love Star Wars I have seen the original verision thousands of times but I don't get into the other stuff. I never heard about the EU of Star Wars til about 10yrs ago. I love the OT i can recite whole scenes, again I'm a fan however I don't sweat the details. I'm a 3d artist so I have different view and whatever I create is like my child I kid you not I carry pictures of them in my iphone. So as an artist no one can tell me whats what with my work and I change and alter my stuff all the time. As I suppose all artist know a piece of art is done when its done.

You've seen the "original versions" thousands of times yet you don't know the "who shot first?" fiasco!? No wonder you think the story was always about Anakin/Vader... Although he did intend to go back and tell the story of Obi-Wan, Vader and Anakin (Anakin and Vader being separate characters) after the release of Star Wars (or amending it to being the fall of Anakin in I-III, and then doing a VII-IX afterwards where the OT cast are older when ESB was being released), his ORIGINAL intentions was to tell the story of a man named Star Killer, and it involved space pirates and groups of sith and jedi - due to budgetary restrictions and restricting technology, he amended the story to the tale of Luke Skywalker (with hopes of being able to tell a grander scale story later). THAT is fact. With Assassin's Creed, they're telling the story of Desmond right now, with the hopes of being able to tell a grander story later. That's why the comparison was initially made.

And as an artist, to say "no one knows what this means besides me" is a little close minded. Artists make their mark and leave things up to the interpretation of their audience. Why else would we have art galleries? Why else would their be doctorates being done over discourse of symbolism in Shakespeare? Why do we explore the subconscious of the author and the influence of the times? Why do we do collaborations? Even a sequel could be the artist changing his initial view on his "artistic expression".

As an artist, sure I can say "this was my artistic expression" and then go on to explain our implication, but ultimately it comes down to the artistic inference. Even Lucas believes in this. He used to take films and recut them to his own understanding of the story, and for this same reason, he is cool with fan-editors reworking Star Wars, or doing the EU.

When I make a film, I leave things up to people's interpretation and when they ask me "was the world of story like this?" "was that an image of him as his younger self?" I tell them, "it's whatever you perceive it to be." That's why I loved Inception. You can make up for yourself what happened.

I don't remember what I said initially but I was saying Desmond is no Luke skywalker

I mean in terms of love he is no Luke Skywalker.

Originally you said that Desmond is no Luke Skywalker because SW is the story of Anakin/Vader, not Luke. And then you went on to slowly amend your statement.

Star Wars is the story of Luke. Even the prequels are just a set up for where Luke came from. If Star Wars was the story of Anakin from beginning to end, why is it that Anakin doesn't show up until halfway through the first film? SW, ESB and ROTJ is about Luke fighting the Empire. TPM, AOTC, ROTS is simply a setup for the original trilogy. You don't NEED it. It's just backstory. Remove the PT, and you still have the story of SW. Remove the OT, and you've got some incoherent story with no beginning or end and a lack of a consistent main character.

And I think that was the concern of the original poster; can the new AC series (post-Desmond) emulate the impact and importance of the Desmond Series, or will it merely serve to expand on the surrounding story like the PT did. The question then would be, can you play post-Desmond without playing Desmond Series the way you could only play the Desmond series alone?

A good example is Halo. You have Halo 1-3 as the core narrative. Then you have Halo Wars, ODST and Reach. Halo is the story of Master Chief. HW, ODST and Reach serve to expand on the surrounding story. You cannot simply play Wars, ODST and Reach for a core storytelling experience the way you can just play Halos 1-3... that's why they're now doing 4-6 - to continue the story of Master Chief. Halo is doing what Star Wars gave up on doing. Star Wars was originally planned to be: Story of Luke (OT), Expanded story (PT), the continuation of Luke's story (ST). The problem is the Sequel Trilogy was cancelled. Halo's ST isn't.



That said, I could see them doing a few games of expanded story (with other Assassin's) but I think they'll end up coming back to Desmond in a sequel series far down the road.

 

[Dwarf Slayer]

When you look at Star Wars in its entirety it is about Anakin not because I say so or anyone else its like that because the CREATOR said so.Now you can interpet the quality of his work any way you like(which I am a fan of), however whatever he says about the characters and story goes down as fact. You can argue that all you like.... to someone else.I do not argue hard facts I think its a practice in futility... but thats just me being reasonable and we know that doesn't have anyplace on the internet.

Actually, Star Wars was never intended to be about Darth Vader. Hell, the original title to Star Wars was The Adventures of Luke Skywalker, As Taken From the Journey of the Whills, Saga 1: The Star Wars. Furthermore, Darth Vader was never supposed to be Luke's father. In the original script for The Empire Strikes Back, Luke's father actually appears as a ghost alongside Obi Wan Kenobi. He tells Luke about his twin sister, Nellith. That's right, Leia was never supposed to Luke's sister either.

You should read The Secret History of Star Wars. It details the making of all six films and its pretty interesting to see how much changed between drafts of each film (I'd argue that the 1st draft of Phantom Menace is much much stronger than what we got with the final film). When Lucas says that he wrote a huge story that he split up into six films, he's lying. Plans for the other six movies were only made during the making of Empire Strikes Back. Even then, that plan changed dramatically.

 

[Paradox1]

And as an artist, to say "no one knows what this means besides me" is a little close minded. Artists make their mark and leave things up to the interpretation of their audience. Why else would we have art galleries? Why else would their be doctorates being done over discourse of symbolism in Shakespeare? Why do we explore the subconscious of the author and the influence of the times? Why do we do collaborations? Even a sequel could be the artist changing his initial view on his "artistic expression".

As an artist, sure I can say "this was my artistic expression" and then go on to explain our implication, but ultimately it comes down to the artistic inference. Even Lucas believes in this. He used to take films and recut them to his own understanding of the story, and for this same reason, he is cool with fan-editors reworking Star Wars, or doing the EU.

When I make a film, I leave things up to people's interpretation and when they ask me "was the world of story like this?" "was that an image of him as his younger self?" I tell them, "it's whatever you perceive it to be." That's why I loved Inception. You can make up for yourself what happened.

Art that leaves gaps in ihe final work is meant to be interpreted by others. For example at the end of the film 12 Monkeys was Bruce Willis character changing the future or was he fullifilling his role in ensuring his timelines existence. That is open to debate but if your looking at a piece of art on a wall and its painted in blue don't argue its green. The artist is clearly saying this is blue. That to me is unconsciosily silly to say in this draft of Empire he started this way, Who the **** Cares!! If Da Vinci started painting what would become the Mona Lisa by first painting an apple. Would anybody be like he actually meant to draw an apple LMAO. Its a nice little factoid but it should never be used an argument to go against what an artist has stated previously

Secondly all artist are different I have an obsession with my work and I want it interpreted exactly as I intended anything else would be unacceptable. Perhaps your a little loosey goosey with your work I want total control of my work.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

It undermines your whole statements on art when you say that Michelangelo painted the Mona Lisa... Just sayin'.

 

[Paradox1]

*Fixed*Brain fart I mixed up my renaissance artist Michelangelo was the better artist anyway.

 

[AxlsAppetite]

What the eff happened. You guys aren't even arguing about AC anymore. It went from 80% links 20% discussion to 100% star wars.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Art that leaves gaps in ihe final work is meant to be interpreted by others. For example at the end of the film 12 Monkeys was Bruce Willis character changing the future or was he fullifilling his role in ensuring his timelines existence. That is open to debate but if your looking at a piece of art on a wall and its painted in blue don't argue its green. The artist is clearly saying this is blue. That to me is unconsciosily silly to say in this draft of Empire he started this way, Who the **** Cares!! If Da Vinci started painting what would become the Mona Lisa by first painting an apple. Would anybody be like he actually meant to draw an apple LMAO. Its a nice little factoid but it should never be used an argument to go against what an artist has stated previously

Secondly all artist are different I have an obsession with my work and I want it interpreted exactly as I intended anything else would be unacceptable. Perhaps your a little loosey goosey with your work I want total control of my work.

The thing is that even in the final drafts of SW/ESB/ROTJ, it was always meant to be the story of Luke, so don't say that "it's the story of Anakin". You can watch the OT without the PT just fine. In fact it works better (the amount of continuity flops in the PT is astounding). Comparing the AC OT to the SW OT or the Halo OT is a perfect comparison. Whatever happens next (if it doesn't include the main character) is extra. You can do fine with the originals without it, but you can't do the extra without the originals.

If the next series tells the story of how Warren Vidic started as an Assassin and then became a Templar, you can't looke back at the entirety of AC and say "AC was always about Warren Vidic". That's ridiculous.

 

[Benstamania]

What the eff happened. You guys aren't even arguing about AC anymore. It went from 80% links 20% discussion to 100% star wars.

Bwa ha ha. So true.

 

[TheBat812]

Man, I had to look that up I never ever heard of the who shot first controversy. I love Star Wars I have seen the original verision thousands of times but I don't get into the other stuff. I never heard about the EU of Star Wars til about 10yrs ago. I love the OT i can recite whole scenes, again I'm a fan however I don't sweat the details. I'm a 3d artist so I have different view and whatever I create is like my child I kid you not I carry pictures of them in my iphone. So as an artist no one can tell me whats what with my work and I change and alter my stuff all the time. As I suppose all artist know a piece of art is done when its done.

The weird thing is that his changes actually change and do a disservice to his characters. I don't disagree that he has a right to change whatever he wants, but in the end it doesn't necessarily make it a good decision or a stronger film. In fact most of the changes he made either ruin a great character moment (greedo shooting first makes Han's character less of a badass and less of a dangerous character, Vader yelling no instead of the silence where you can picture the turmoil in his thought process) or take you out of the film (stupid terrible CG establishing shots). I really just wish he would release the original versions alongside the 'real' versions just to appease the majority of Star Wars fans who loved the tangibility of the original versions, which really is part of the reason they were so great. In the end, Lucas just proved that he has lost whatever made him a great artist when he made American Graffiti and Star Wars.


/rant

 

[Asteroid-Man]

If you're talking about Star Wars here, at least link it back to AC.

 

[TheBat812]

If you're talking about Star Wars here, at least link it back to AC.

oh ya. Okay, unlike the Star Wars bluray set, I really want to get my hands on ACIII, haha.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

You see, Star Wars is a lot like an onion.... It has layers... and in the same way... So does Assassins Creed... So I think you all see my point... *head explodes*

 

[ProjectPat2280]

What the eff happened. You guys aren't even arguing about AC anymore. It went from 80% links 20% discussion to 100% star wars.

LOL.

Post of the month.