The Avengers Avengers Trailer Discussion - Part 1

[First Avenger]

I agree,I read that again a few weeks ago and kept thinking "The Avengers is in good hands"!I also remembered when he wanted to do X3...

 

[spider-neil]

I agree,I read that again a few weeks ago and kept thinking "The Avengers is in good hands"!I also remembered when he wanted to do X3...

pleased with whedon

1. he knows comic characters

2. he knows group dynamics

3. his action is awesome (in comics, tv and movies)

 

[First Avenger]

Exactly,he is one of us XD.

 

[Avenger]

BTW,I think that,aside from Serenity,the best indication of how this movie could turn out is Joss' work on Astonishing X-men 1-24.What do you think about it?

I absolutely agree. There were times when I was reading Astonishing X-Men where I stopped and suddenly thought, "I could see this happening exactly the same way in a movie or a TV show." And then I made myself sad because I wished Joss would/could do an X-Men TV show.

EDIT: Off-topic, but I'm amused by the idea of me (Avenger) posting immediately after someone named First Avenger. t:

 

[First Avenger]

^we're in this together!
BTW Joss wanted to write/direct X-men 3.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I guess I should be surprised that no-one has really commented on the most interesting dynamic represented in the trailer, well, not in the sense of going into detail anyway.

But, I am looking forward to seeing the context of that argument between Cap and Stark, because from the bit we see, Cap comes off as a bit of a pr**k.
It's especially ironic that he belittles Stark by sarcastically calling him a 'Big man' (in a little suit'), which is basically saying he is just a litttle man because he does not have superpowers, esp ironic given his own background, and kind of shows his lack of intelligence when it comes to taking in the reality of Stark's achievements.
He displays a somewhat macho man attitude, as in, 'I measure men by their ability to physically fight, because, y'know, I am a big guy now, and that is a notion I carry in my mind.'
I don't think it can be denied that there is a meathead macho notion in there, which just makes a mockery of the character, as I was saying, esp given the nature of his origin.

But, I guess Whedon knows what he is doing, Cap will just have to wise up at some point in the movie, and realise that he has some attitudes that need adjusting. That is, when someone else points out these negative attributes to him, and his ego can allow that to be taken onboard, that he is not so perfect, and shouldn't be thinking he is better than other people, remembering the fact that he has advantages, ie super-powers, that others don't have, and if they don't, that does not mean they are 'little' in comparison to him.
It looks like Stark shut him up anyway, I doubt Cap will have a witty comeback line somehow.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

But, I am looking forward to seeing the context of that argument between Cap and Stark, because from the bit we see, Cap comes off as a bit of a pr**k.
It's especially ironic that he belittles Stark with the term 'little man', given his own background, and kind of shows his lack of intelligence when it comes to taking in the reality of Stark's achievements. He displays a somewhat macho man attitude, as in, 'I measure men by their ability to physically fight, because, y'know, I am a big guy now, and that is a notion I carry in my mind.'
I don't think it can be denied that there is a meathead macho notion in there, which just makes a mockery of the character, as I was saying, esp given the nature of his origin..

Doesn't call him little man, he says "big man in a suit of armor"

I read that as more of a challenge to Tony to step up, like "I was ready to fight and die for what I believed in even back when i was a shrimp. What about you?"

of course context is everything, Cap might just be in a dick mood. especially if he's had to listen to Stark's banter for an hour lol.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Doesn't call him little man, he says "big man in a suit of armor"

I read that as more of a challenge to Tony to step up, like "I was ready to fight and die for what I believed in even back when i was a shrimp. What about you?"

of course context is everything, Cap might just be in a dick mood. especially if he's had to listen to Stark's banter for an hour lol.

Aye, I mis-remembered it, and edited my post accordingly, the meaning is the same imo, he is calling him 'Big man' sarcastically, and when you combine that with 'in a little suit', it is him looking down on Stark as someone small in comparison to someone with super-powers.

It suggests that he doesn't respect or appreciate what Stark has done with his Iron-Man self-invention and career, not that Stark is chickening out or not doing his duty for whatever reason, and needs to be reprimanded.
Aye, we will see what context the scene is in, I imagine it will just be Cap taking offence at Tony's method of dealing with the impossible superhero dilemmas with a sense of humour, maybe Cap's funny bone is still in need of thawing out, haha.

I don't see it being about Stark not stepping up, he was only too willing to join the Avengers at the end of Iron-Man2, he seemed disapointed that they only wanted him as a consultant at that point in time.
He doesn't tend to chicken out, only being held back from performing due to that chemical poisoning he experienced.

 

[spider-neil]

Without seeing it in context I took it as a patriot like cap was appalled that Tony didn't jump at the chance to serve his country/planet and had to be asked to join the team. You can see the contempt in cap's face.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

pleased with whedon

1. he knows comic characters

2. he knows group dynamics

3. his action is awesome (in comics, tv and movies)

This.

 

[marcvader]

I agree. Cap doesn't come off prickish to me at all. Knowing the way Tony comes off from his two previous movies, can't help but thinking a peer of his would tell him something like that.

 

[bunk]

You get the sense that Steve doesn't know Tony at this point at all. Like he's really asking him "what can you do besides operate this suit?"

 

[Moridin]

Aye, I mis-remembered it, and edited my post accordingly, the meaning is the same imo, he is calling him 'Big man' sarcastically, and when you combine that with 'in a little suit', it is him looking down on Stark as someone small in comparison to someone with super-powers.

He doesn't say "little" anything;

Doesn't call him little man, he says "big man in a suit of armor"

 

[Suzanne78]

We do need to see the confrontation in context. Would it be all that surprising that Tony gives Cap attitude and Steve simply snaps?

I say that as a huge Tony Stark fan, but he can be a d*** often and frequently.

 

[cherokeesam]

You get the sense that Steve doesn't know Tony at this point at all. Like he's really asking him "what can you do besides operate this suit?"

I don't think Steve would be dismissive or dubious of Tony Stark at all, though. The one thing Steve *does* know about Tony, presumably, from their first meeting, is that he's Howard's son. So he's going to give him the benefit of the doubt out of respect for Howard.

No, that scene *has* to happen after Tony came off as being a dick to Cap.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I don't see why a movie needs flat characters for balance. And I find Singers handling of most X-characters not named Wolverine to be lacking.

Note: I know I said this yesterday but for some reason The Hype gobbled up my post.

The same reason most stories have need of them: you don't go full-backstory with everyone. Of course, in a movie like Avengers where each and every character does have a backstory, where the whole point is team-work, it's different. But think about Coulson. He's been a flat-character in every movie if you look at them independently, but on the whole, he's a real success. From the X-films, yes I'd have preferred Cyclops to get more of a backstory, even Storm, but for someone like Lady Deathstrike? I think her character, being so "one-dimensional" worked as a very sad foil to Logan. Things like that work well, and yes, are sometimes required.

Not saying that any of the Avengers need to go that route. I really do hope we see more of Black Widow's character , than just her being there kicking ass. I guess she's no longer just a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, and that makes for an important distinction on the field.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

He doesn't say "little" anything;

Ok, thanks for clearing that up, because it makes my interpretation of the scene more viable.

By sarcastically calling him a 'Big man in a suit of armour' what he is saying is that without the armour he is just a little man.
Which goes back to my original point, that it is ironic that Cap of all people is calling someone little because they do not have superpowers, given his history. It's not something I would imagine hearing the one I know from the 616 universe saying in any context.

I don't know the Ultimate comics Cap, is he a bit more of a pr**k? Because no matter what the context is, with the way the dialogue is written, it does not sound like something Cap should be saying, it makes him sound dumb and macho, it's like the skinny kid from the Charles Atlas ad who worked out for 7 days is now going about kicking sand in other skinny guy's faces, haha.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Here's a question I've been pondering, have the previous solo films already influenced how people will view Avengers?

It does, of course. But the filmmakers must always take into account that there is that one person out there who hasn't seen it, and that the one person is actually a group of people encompassing more than 25% of the audience (just saying). But even for them, the whole idea of "all the superheroes getting together for a big threat" is still there, the world-end like threat, the 'epic' quality of it all (for lack of a better word), should be enough.

You also have to take into account that these characters aren't original, and that Marvel Comics has in fact given these figures some form of exposure even to the uninitiated. They know that this is big. And for now, that's all that they're promoting.

 

[MuttNYC]

My timeline (based on the official trailer which can be found here to referance times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9cuGZJ9DP0) is as follows:

Loki arrives on earth, though not in America and through a so far unrecognized means. Shield assembles Captain America, Black Widow and Iron Man to deal with the problem.
- Supported by 1:21 in the trailer where we see a foreign police car (marked "Polizei") explode, and 0:32 when Fury arrives via Helicopter by night and tells Coleson to get ready.

Iron Man is sent in to capture Loki or at least keep him busy. Loki is clearly after something (i'll get to that in a minute) thats held under lock and key. As Iron Man is sent in to either capture or keep Loki busy, Black Widow is sent in to steal whatever he is after before he can get to it.
- Supported by 1:24 in the video where Black Widow is fighting a security guard in an "attic/storage" like area.

While this is happening Fury understands that they wont be able to beat Loki without Thor's help. They move to a wooded area to summon/retrieve him from Asgard, and upon his arrival he unknowingly attacks Capt. America and Shield thinking it to be a trick of Loki
- Supported by 1:26 in the trailer where Thor lunges at Cap. Also take note of the difference between Thor's costume here and his later capeless and alternately colored costume in the Shield base.

With the help of Thor and the team Loki is apprehended and led into Shield protection. The team decide to study Loki's new staff which is now equipped with whatever he was looking for (my guess is one of the Infinity Gems. Look closely at his staff. The blue gem is equipped in the middle). They recruit Bruce Banner because of his vast scientific knowledge.
- Supported by 1:11 in the trailer where Loki's staff is on display and Banner and Stark are clearly explaining something to everyone else. The blue gem is visible in this shot.

However Loki somehow breaks free and retrieves his staff through deception. There is an explosion which rocks the team and throws Banner and an unknown person through the glass room. Banner turns into the Hulk and the team assembles to get him under control.
- Supported by 1:27 in the trailer. The team (still in the science room) is thrown backwards and Banner and one other person (possibly Fury because of the boots) are thrown through the window.
- 1:54 banner, still in the clothes from the previous shot, has clearly been thrown into some boilers. Unable to contain the Hulk he transforms.
- 1:05 Cap and Stark look tired and battle worn in the same setting as Banners transformation.
- 1:08 Thor retrieves his hammer after clearly being knocked backwards in the same area as Banners transformation

 

[TheVileOne]

Steve and Tony have clashed often and frequently in the comics.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

nice job with the timeline i can live up to that.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Steve and Tony have clashed often and frequently in the comics.

Haven't most of the Avengers got into arguments with each other in the books?
It's just that particular line of thought coming from Cap i thought was a bit off.

 

[MuttNYC]

(continuing my timeline)

- 1:28 Cap fires an assault rifle at Banner in a SHIELD setting. Hulk is immune to bullets so its probably to protect a teammate who is about to get smashed.

The Hulk is brought under control. The team needs to figure out what Loki's plan is before something bad happens. Stark, angry about the team mechanics returns to Stark Tower by himself. Loki arrives at Starks home to retrieve his staff and attacks Stark.
- Supported by 1:29 in the trailer where Loki is choking Stark, clearly without his staff.

Stark does not know the location and Loki informs him that he does not understand the implications of the stone when it is not in his possession. At this time (and remember Tony is in the penthouse suite), they see the Skrulls attack. Cap goes to apologize to Tony at his suite and gets thrown out of the window by Loki.
- 1:29 cap is launched from a lower level window.
- Supported by any number of daytime shots where there are people shooting upwards or looking upwards and energy shots being fired.

The team is assembled to combat the threat. Loki leaves Stark to find his staff before someone else does (In a minute ). Though a tough battle ensues they triumph. From one of the dying Skrulls they discover that the Skrulls were decieved and convinced to attack earth after someone possessing gems like the one Loki has attacked their planet (Thanos )
- Supported by any number of shots with the avengers fighting during the day.

At this point the story can go any which way that the trailer hasn't described or shown, but we do see Loki riding a Skrull hover craft at 1:31.


Anyway thats my timeline! Its all opinionated but i stand by my convictions and i figured either making a new post or posting here would get some nice discussion going about it.

 

[Aztec]

"From technology to mythology...
From science to legend..."

From the Captain America "Assembly Begins" footage.

I like it! I'd post a link but unfortunately due to "website rivalries" I can't..but I'm sure you can guess where you can find it.

 

[MuttNYC]

glad you guys like the timeline . It makes the most sense to me because of costume changes (or lack there of) with the different shots. I didn't include a lot of other times in the trailer because its implied and i'm not going to do a minute by minute lol. But DISCUSS! I feel like the timeline fits the story perfectly >.> and is also supported by pictures and footage from filming.