Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 1

[Havok83]

I'm rooting X-Men but not necessarilly Cyclops.

Team X-men here as well

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I just got back into comics and started reading this. Pretty good to me

 

[javi1024]

Being just into comics I can see it for it's purely entertaining value. I think if you knew the characters as well as many of us do, and seen the characters leading up to this event you'd start to see many of our complaints.

 

[Spider-Nerd]

Nah, they'll tinker with it to somehow make it Wolverine's victory, because ya know, everyone just LOVES Wolverine.

That's exactly how it's going to play out.

Scott and his UXM have def. been portrayed as psychotic in the main title. They've come off far better in UXM and WATXM. Scott telling Cap that he wants mutants to die off in AVX made me roll my eyes hardcore. It's like him and logan have become caricatures of themselves. Logan going "KILL YOU SUMMERS!!" was a tad excessive to me.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Being just into comics I can see it for it's purely entertaining value. I think if you knew the characters as well as many of us do, and seen the characters leading up to this event you'd start to see many of our complaints.

well I grew up on X-men. I read Schism and got into the AvX series

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Wow, what a terrifying ending to this week's issue. The most hardcore nuts of Scott's lunatic fringe with the Phoenix's power. It's like the Son of Sam with a nuke.

I guess we know now who Thor's fighting on the cover of AvX: Vs. #4, at least. Doubt he'll fare much better than he did against the Phoenix last time around, though.

You know what I find the biggest problem with this series is? The fact that you can't root for either side. The Avengers are being a bunch of *****ebags while the X-Men are being freaking psychotic.

That's my main problem as well. Both sides obviously have to resort to extreme actions in order to produce a plot that's more than just Scott and Steve sitting down and having a conversation over tea, but they've run both sides way too far in their respective direction for my tastes. It's not even like Bendis is unaware of that. He's got characters commenting that Cap is acting a bit fascistic while Wolverine and Cap are calling Scott a lunatic at every turn.

 

[Havok83]

Ultimately its all Wanda's fault. We are STILL dealing with the crap she pulled years ago

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, poor Wanda. Hope's bomb/bombardier question is pretty relevant to Wanda's situation too. She was so messed up and manipulated by her terrible-ass family that it's debatable whether she even understood what she was doing.

 

[hippie_hunter]

With this last issue I'd say Cyclops is psychotic, not the X-Men.

I would agree with you except for the fact that the X-Men are siding with Cyclops willingly. Asides from Wolverine and Beast, all of the X-Men have willingly sided with Cyclops, and they know what he stands for.

Also, leave it to Fraction to completely ignore Wolverine & the X-Men where they reveal that Wolverine can't kill Hope.

 

[Havok83]

I would agree with you except for the fact that the X-Men are siding with Cyclops willingly. Asides from Wolverine and Beast, all of the X-Men have willingly sided with Cyclops, and they know what he stands for.

Also, leave it to Fraction to completely ignore Wolverine & the X-Men where they reveal that Wolverine can't kill Hope.

You mean overall or just in terms of this crossover?

As for your second point, I dont think anything was ignored. Wolverine can kill Hope. In WaTX, he makes the decision not to but here in AvX, she is the one that tells him to kill her. Its her decision, her choice. Wolverine is not above killing kids and I knew what he said in WaTX wouldnt last long bc the minute the situation presented itself, he would do what he felt was necesary. Seeing Hope admit that she cant handle the Phoenix's power and about to go all Dark Phoenix on them, its very logical that he would throw that out the window and try to stop it ASAP. What Fraction wrote was consistent with how Wolverine has been portrayed in the past and I dont think it directly contradicts with what Aaron wrote for him. I think Logan is pulling an exception here given the immediate danger and considering Hope is the one that made the call, that kind of rationalizes and makes it easier than him just setting out to kill her on his own

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I didn't expect it to last long either. But it was a real disappointment to see Wolverine back to happily offing kids so soon.

 

[JewishHobbit]

As for your second point, I dont think anything was ignored. Wolverine can kill Hope. In WaTX, he makes the decision not to but here in AvX, she is the one that tells him to kill her. Its her decision, her choice. Wolverine is not above killing kids and I knew what he said in WaTX wouldnt last long bc the minute the situation presented itself, he would do what he felt was necesary. Seeing Hope admit that she cant handle the Phoenix's power and about to go all Dark Phoenix on them, its very logical that he would throw that out the window and try to stop it ASAP. What Fraction wrote was consistent with how Wolverine has been portrayed in the past and I dont think it directly contradicts with what Aaron wrote for him. I think Logan is pulling an exception here given the immediate danger and considering Hope is the one that made the call, that kind of rationalizes and makes it easier than him just setting out to kill her on his own

I agree with this. I've rolled my eyes at Wolverine's killing strides in this series but this was the first time it didn't feel like blood-thirst. Maybe it was due to following W&tXM but I didn't take this as something he WANTED to do but something that had to be done despite what he wanted.

"Kill you Summers" and Cyclops' claims that Cap wants to kill off the Mutants were far worse.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A vow to not kill kids ain't much of a vow if he breaks it all of two seconds later. Wolverine comes off like a hypocritical idiot in the issue if you've read WatXM. It doesn't matter that Hope asks him to kill her. The idea behind his vow in WatXM is that he doesn't want to be the kind of man for whom killing a child is ever okay. He's trying to better himself, which means being the kind of man who'd find a better way and give the child a chance at life. Captain America's hell-bent on stopping the Phoenix, yet he still doesn't consider murdering a 16-year-old girl to be a viable option for it. That's what Wolverine indicates he's striving for in WatXM. So no, going back on the vow at literally his very first possible opportunity doesn't strike me as all that consistent.

 

[Manic]

I can see that Aaron is trying to be the writer to say "Screw what you're having my character do in your comic. Only my issue is canon!" I think Brubaker has done something similar with Cap recently. However, his efforts seem in vain when they keep making Logan try to kill kids again and again.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that's the problem when characters are basically appearing everywhere. I can understand now why so many good writers get sick of the big publishers' shared universes so quickly. I mean, creatively, you should be able to take stuff in stride if you go in knowing others are going to be using your characters as well, but it's tough when the things you have to take in stride are so s***ty.

 

[Manic]

I wonder how many writers slam their heads against the wall as soon as they leave a title after giving someone some heavy character progression, only to see the new writer revert the character to how they're remembered in a movie or old cartoon.

I've lost count of how many times the Human Torch has undergone a maturity arc only to turn back into a 15 year old. Iceman too. And as much as I love Wolverine and the Family Stone, Aaron just turned Kitty "too grown up for her own good" Pryde into someone who's afraid of growing up.

 

[Havok83]

Stick to this vow or stand by and watch her kill every single one of them on the Moon and let the situation escalate to the point that she end up on Earth and does some more damage? The point was that Hope said she couldnt handle the power. She couldnt control the Phoenix merging with her and she blasted all of them as it started to get stronger inside her. There really wasnt a whole lot of time to react When the Phoenix merged with her, she wouldnt simply be a kid anymore. She'd be one with this cosmic force thats existed forever and one that has gone insane before when the host lost control.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Remove her from the field to someplace that'd be safe. Knock her out since she's still got the body of a small teenaged girl. Call over the Red Hulk and the Thing to slow her down while the others regroup. All kinds of stuff short of stabbing a child in the face. But no, totally, going against his vow and trying to kill the girl he just swore he wouldn't makes Wolverine positively noble.

 

[Havok83]

Remove her from the field to someplace that'd be safe. Knock her out since she's still got the body of a small teenaged girl. Call over the Red Hulk and the Thing to slow her down while the others regroup. All kinds of stuff short of stabbing a child in the face. But no, totally, going against his vow and trying to kill the girl he just swore he wouldn't makes Wolverine positively noble.

The Phoenix Force was literally right there. It was too late to remove her from the scene and Wolverine had no means to do it.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

How much different are the tie-ins from the main AvX series? Haven't been following them, are they integral to the story?

 

[Mad Ones]

Everyone comes across better in the tie-ins. So far you haven't needed to read any of them to know whats going on, but they do provide some depth to the characters involved. Though Wolverine just seems to contradict what Wolverine and the X-men set up for him.

 

[runawayboulder]

This has been another lackluster Marvel event. They should cool it with these things for a while until they can get them right again.

 

[Manic]

This has been another lackluster Marvel event. They should cool it with these things for a while until they can get them right again.

They won't stop, of course. As long as people keep buying these events and they increase the sales of the tie-in comics, Marvel will keep churning them out without regard to quality.

I learned that during Secret Invasion, the event that ended half a dozen times in its tie-ins. "The Skrull are leaving because the connection to their gods has been severed! I mean their gods are dead. I mean they're running from a plague. I mean magic has kicked them out. Or maybe it's because their queen died. Whatever, they're gone."

 

[roach]

they'll keep churning them out until people start asking for better stories....when crap cross overs stop selling out then you'll get better ones

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They won't stop, of course. As long as people keep buying these events and they increase the sales of the tie-in comics, Marvel will keep churning them out without regard to quality.

I learned that during Secret Invasion, the event that ended half a dozen times in its tie-ins. "The Skrull are leaving because the connection to their gods has been severed! I mean their gods are dead. I mean they're running from a plague. I mean magic has kicked them out. Or maybe it's because their queen died. Whatever, they're gone."

I just viewed each of those as different battlefields. The Skrulls decided to come at the UK with magic and the proto-MI-13 beat them back. The Skrulls' gods were subtly influencing them with magical mojo and Hercules' God Squad put the kibosh on that. Et cetera.

I actually like Avengers vs. X-Men so far. I just wish everyone weren't a caricature of their usual selves. Also, I'd really like to get the Scarlet Witch involved and really get to the meat of the event. We're almost at the halfway mark and the Phoenix JUST got here.