Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 3

[Doomed_hero]

and to add to it, not only does it seem like cap is taking it as his fault but to leave Scott in jail who killed a man while being controlled by the pheonix, but is perfectly fine LEAVING HIS MANTLE to Bucky who was brainwashed and used by other people to kill is just plane dumb.

 

[Dangerman]

ok so let me get this straight. Cap forces Cyclops out of Utopia and puts him on the run when his plan was to use the pheonix in Hope to bring back all mutants. Cap and iron Man then create a machine that ends up giving Scott and 5 other the power of the pheonix and they are slowly corrupted by it and it makes Scott kill the Professor. In the end they beat scott and...use the pheonix to bring back all the mutants. So now the man who worked his ass off to save mutant kind is in jail for something iron man and cap are responible for, Wanda who killed many avenger members and caused M-Day in the first place is a good guy, Wolverine who has killed and murdered more people then I can count and still does is going to be leader of a avengers team and basically the leader of the x-men? What the **** marvel

YOUR LOGIC HAS NO PLACE AT MARVEL COMICS!

Pretty much.

I haven't seen someone get screwed this hard since Skip screwed Spidey!!!

 

[javi1024]

Wtf is that really peter?????

 

[Dangerman]

Wtf is that really peter?????

yes this actually happened.

 

[runawayboulder]

Hmmmmm, so Quesada wasn't the first man to rape Peter? Interesting...

 

[Aesculapius]

and to add to it, not only does it seem like cap is taking it as his fault but to leave Scott in jail who killed a man while being controlled by the pheonix, but is perfectly fine LEAVING HIS MANTLE to Bucky who was brainwashed and used by other people to kill is just plane dumb.

As I understand it, the Phoenix does not "control" people. It enhances their emotions.

Given that Scott Summers is an egotistical *****ebag, it just made him a powermad egotistical *****ebag. This was actually highlighted at the end when Scott said "So I was right about the Phoenix. It wasn't here to destroy us." and Cap said "No... only you were."

Basically a couple of his particularly effed up moments where he turned on Emma Frost or when he fought and murdered Professor X along with trying to destroy everything were all Scott's emotional issues showing up in the real world. Now you can argue that you feel sympathy for him because he was impaired or something, but what he just did is all him.

Not to say that AvX was great with it's writing, as I already complained about that, but in order to understand the end you have to understand that it really was Cyclops's personality that was causing the problems, and he wasn't exactly remorseful at the end. Also as far as the world is concerned, the Phoenix Five and their X-Men basically equate to a terrorist organization. Think about how people act in real life to people even remotely connected to groups that are labeled toxic like that.... Yeah, essentially what they've done is set X-Men back to the days where they are on the run and basically the establishment and everyone under it has a reason to fear mutants, which is kind of poetic, considering how Summers tried to take their vision by force.

Also are we really blaming Iron Man and Scarlet witch for this? I'm not even touching that one. =p

 

[Manic]

Who's responsible for splitting the Phoenix into 5 pieces? Because I think that person deserves a lot of the blame by preventing a very dangerous force from making contact with the one* person on Earth who could've controlled it.




*not including the Stepford Cuckoos or Rachel Summers, who apparently didn't exist during this crossover.

 

[roach]

Did they ever explain why they thought it was heading for Hope instead of Rachael?

 

[Manic]

Because. These. Writers. Don't. Know. Who. Rachel. Is!

Plus Hope has had about 12,000 hints about being the next Phoenix since the day she was born. She also manifested her first Phoenix raptor on the day she and Cable arrived back in the 21st century.

 

[Havok83]

Did they ever explain why they thought it was heading for Hope instead of Rachael?

The Phoenix Force left Rachel. There really was no reason to believe it was coming back to her. Besides X-Sanction pretty much confirmed to Scott that Hope had the Phoenix Force and that she was destined to do something big with it. All signs pointed to her, especially since she was displaying the raptor several times when her powers manifested

 

[Aesculapius]

Who's responsible for splitting the Phoenix into 5 pieces? Because I think that person deserves a lot of the blame by preventing a very dangerous force from making contact with the one* person on Earth who could've controlled it.

Actually there is one point that invalidates both of these things. When Hope was nearly seduced by and wanted the Phoenix's powers and Scott denied her them. Hope was not ready until her training, and Scott indicated that he could have given her the powers if he wanted to. I mean an issue where Hope gets the Phoenix powers despite the cannon blast may make a good future "What If..." but it wouldn't have solved their problems.

Secondly, just because Tony Stark had a "Good job fixing it, Hero" moment when he blasted the Phoenix doesn't make him responsible. He was defending the Earth, and when that failed, he kept trying to fix his mistakes. That does not make him responsible for how others abused the Phoenix power.

Really I'm more pissed off by the characterization of Tony Stark through "Amagad science has failed meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" When a writer does this, it doesn't put credit to magic or faith or whatever, which is what they were going for. Instead they are just admitting there is no good reason that the things around them are happening.

 

[The Englishman]

Have you read the same story as everyone else?

 

[Dangerman]

After thinking about this some more all this event does is proves to me how much the X-Men's world should be set apart from the normal Marvel U. I just think that the X-Men should be like the MAX titles set apart from regular Marvel and they need to stop over using Wolverine.

 

[runawayboulder]

I don't agree with that at all.

If it takes bad writing to make you think that, then all it takes is good writing to fix the problem. Jettisoning the X-Men out of the 616 is not the answer.

 

[Dangerman]

I don't agree with that at all.

If it takes bad writing to make you think that, then all it takes is good writing to fix the problem. Jettisoning the X-Men out of the 616 is not the answer.

They are already pretty much out of the 616 expect for Wolverine the rest of X-Men really have hardly anything to do with the 616. I just think they are better suited out of the 616.

 

[Havok83]

They are already pretty much out of the 616 expect for Wolverine the rest of X-Men really have hardly anything to do with the 616. I just think they are better suited out of the 616.

Huh? What is this supposed to mean? The Xmen have everything to do with 616 and are firmly planted in it. They arent some out of continuity franchise and never have been

 

[Manic]

The X-Men have members that are also Avengers, New Warriors, Defenders, Champions, SHIELD agents, SWORD agents, and Fantastic Four alumni. Their network of allies, friends, relatives, and lovers extends all the way into the Kree Empire.

They're hardly isolated from the rest of the Marvel Universe.

 

[Anubis]

You'd have to do a reboot to pull that off.

 

[Havok83]

The X-Men have members that are also Avengers, New Warriors, Defenders, Champions, SHIELD agents, SWORD agents, and Fantastic Four alumni. Their network of allies, friends, relatives, and lovers extends all the way into the Kree Empire.

They're hardly isolated from the rest of the Marvel Universe.

yeah its not merely just Wolverine

 

[Shockdingo]

So many other mutants fall into franchises like Spider-Man, Punisher, etc. Even if they aren't tired to the X-men, it explains where a lot of characters come from. Sorry, I don't agree with splitting them off from the 616.

 

[runawayboulder]

They something like that with the Avengers once....it was called Heroes Reborn and it sucked ass.

Ironically during that time the roles were reversed, the X-Men were the most popular at Marvel, while in this era fans are all Avengers crazy.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Hmmmmm, so Quesada wasn't the first man to rape Peter? Interesting...

 

[JewishHobbit]

Ironically during that time the roles were reversed, the X-Men were the most popular at Marvel...

Dem were de days

 

[Nightwing 52]

The mind of Hawkeye, which consists of imagining his girlfriend dominating other women:

LOL. t:

 

[runawayboulder]

That might be the greatest thing Loeb has written in a loooooong time.