Batman: Arkham Origins - Part 1

[DrCosmic]

Why would a partner hitting someone break you mutliplier because it would break your freeflow, the combat in Batman is designed to be totally fluid. Each move flows into the next, I really don't see how "back to back" fighting would work in that context. Say you hit a thug with a move and just as that animation is finishing your teammate grapples the final two or three thugs, you've got no one to hit no where for your next move to flow into, combo gone.

So... the issue is... when the fight is over, there's no one else to fight? Or am I missing something here. Yes, in multiplayer, you won't always be the last person to hit someone.

Or are you saying, that you not hitting someone while your partner is hitting someone would/should mean that the combo goes away? If that's your design idea, what happens when there's only one more person? It's literally impossible to finish with a multiplier, or perhaps just really difficult if there's team up moves. If so, that's a really bad design for a co-op game. If WB:Montreal is that daft, Single Player doesn't stand a chance anyway.

But to be more serious, the actual issue I think you're getting at is what happens when both you and a partner attack someone at the same time. You don't want to lose that animation. The answer, I think, is that game would have to sync up and if your partner is striking at someone and that animation is locked it, that person becomes 'down' for you. That could cause a problem if that's the only bad guy in that direction. Your multiplier wouldn't go away, or at least, not the team multiplier, but you could be thrown off of your personal flow. That is an issue. It could be best solved by making that the trigger of a 'combo move' if I attack someone you're already attacking. That's a technical and animation challenge, but it seems doable, and it would turn that relatively common 'problem' into awesomesauce.

And you're right, it'd be back to back in spirit only.

I just see mulitplayer in the Arkham series as a great way for players to be running into each other and getting in each others way. I mean, I'll buy the game regardless of multiplayer or not, I just wish developers didn't feel it's needed in every game these days. I really respect the Bioshock team for realizing they didn't need a multiplayer component for Infinite.

I see co-op multiplayer as an entirely different endeavor than the deathmatch multiplayer that you're talking about here. Batman doesn't need a deathmatch mode anymore than Bioshock does, but the story of Batman is about multiple heroes taking on the dark city, and co-op multiplayer is a natural extension of that, or they have to keep coming up with more and more reasons why Batman's teammates have to stay away.

Totally different from the multiplayer added onto, say, Tomb Raider, which, didn't hurt that game at all either.

It's so interesting to me, people who dislike multiplayer always seem to imagine that if implemented it will be done in the dumbest most evil way possible. No wonder they don't want it!

 

[zenith16]

So make the freeflow combat just for the SP? Should they build another kind of mechanics to combat in MP?
It still doesn't tell me how to prevent the problems of the co-op freeflow combat, just to ignore it and make something else just for MP.

Ok so now that I'm done with that Marvel heroes Beta as I said when left here. And I was thinking for the co-op for this .

Yeah have something else in place of the Free flow system in that it's some other system that grades you on how you preform with your partner/partners, just for that mode and that mode alone. using a combo system of it's own too.

Just like how the free flow combo system should be only for the single player main game if you select that and not be affected or used in any other mode besides that campaign segment. yeah that's what I was thinking about, while playing a marvel titled game that's still in the works and should be giving feed back there too.

It was about this. Just have the two things segregated and a different type of performance grade system should be activated when you are only do the multilayer mode after you've selected it. The free flow system should be for the main story/ single player mode. And be active only in that in it's self. your score should remain intact.



another new latest news

• 
  Batman: Arkham Origins Screenshots
  
  Preview
  
  
  
  on Apr 25, 2013 at 05:30 PM
  13,900 Views
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  31
  Get a good look at imagery from our May cover story on the Dark Knight's earliest Arkham adventure.
  ... More

source:GI


I'm out for tonight.

 

[DrCosmic]

Forget the points. If my partner knocks a thug that I was about to knock, my character will jump into the middle of nothing. Or maybe just punch or kick the air.
The freeflow is so good because it goes from one thug to the other. It is one big combo and the fun is to keep this up for as long as you can. At least it is like that for me. Unless you guys aren't playing it this way.
Throw as many enemies at me as I can endure. Doesn't matter the number.

If you attack near the same time, a computer can synch up the attacks for an ultra cool combo attack. You can see a bit of this in AC as different animations stretch and have different delays. Perfect for synching. The only problem would be if your partner is half way through a long jump to an enemy, either your animation to go that long way would be rushed or the swing at nothing problem would happen.

!

Other idea, your attack follows through and you end up finishing off whoever your opponent knocked down. This would have the unfortunate effect of making the game more brutal as you could re-finish-off enemies. You can also see a bit of this in how thugs don't generally ragdoll, they're kinda still there to hit for a split second.

Long story short, the problem is solvable, partly because they had already begun solving it in AC, and just didn't have time to finish it up. Yes, it means that some people won't be able to get all the achievements... just keep the list of two-player achievements small, and they'll be okay, but not only can people who hate multiplayer, and think all multiplayer is unnecessary and tacked on still do things the normal way, but people who enjoy multiplayer can have a blast too.

Edit: And yes, it will mean you have to pay attention to your partner so that you don't end up falling all over each other, hitting the same guys while other guys attack you both from behind. It will require a new skill: teamwork. But for people who are interested in that skill, they will be rewarded, for those who are not, they will not be penalized.

 

[Frico]

My fave of the new screenshots:

 

[Two-Face]

Saved!

That reminds me we need a Batman Arkham series logo.

 

[v.waltzer]

New developer interview: http://www.gamereactor.no/nyheter/178671/GRTV%3A+Batman%3A+Arkham+Origins-intervju/?sid=357dd029efb53d6f95deba361c5188a4

 

[ProjectPat2280]

God i love that suit. Man, Bats looks great.

 

[zenith16]

hmm well at least some of it is in English, I'll read the rest of it later. Thanks for the interview link V.Waltzer and yeah the suit is looking sweet.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Heres the highlights of it:

- Rocksteady gave us all of the code, all of the assets, we inherited everything from Arkham Asylum and Arkham City to launch into development of Origins. You couldn't ask for a stronger launching point, right? So that was a wonderful place to start from and then from there we were given this incredible creative liberty to tell our story to make our game within the Arkham universe, as you know given our title we have definitely focused on the early career of Batman, the origins of this character, and some of the absolutely pivotal foundational moments that we think shape him and created the Batman that players obviously know and love from Asylum and City.

- It's going to feel 100% different, because it isn't a prison anymore. This is a city before the walls went up and people got kicked out, and the spray paint and garbage. Before that layer of sort of "prison-ness" settled into it. And so even when you're in Old Gotham it feels like a very new area, now of course it's seeded with new enemies and new content and new experiences and also new environments cause many years have gone by so the landmass itself is quite different.

- It's just absolutely a different aesthetic, a different feel - much taller buildings, much more strada in terms of the navigation, much more commercial vibe to it, more upscale as it were. The feeling of navigating from Old Gotham and down through New Gotham, of crossing those different aesthetic and gameplay areas, is definitely one the player will get. They will clearly feel the difference between those two landmasses, each of which have their own very distinct sort of ways of playing and styles of playing and obviously experiences that come from them.


- We're a hundred percent focused on making sure that this is the best Arkham experience it can be on the current generation on platforms. And we're really excited to get the game in the hands of the players so they can determine whether or not we have succeded.

 

[TX85]

Awesome read!

 

[Iceman]

Batman looks amazing there! (post 131)

One of the best images of him I've seen in a long time.

 

[TX85]

The snow&christmas lights in the background of the pic is so simple..Yet just so f'n visually awesome with Batman posed like that and ready to kick those two thug's asses!

 

[zenith16]

This just in

• 
  DC's Geoff Johns Talks Batman: Arkham Origins
  
  Feature
  on Apr 26, 2013 at 02:00 PM
  279 Views
  
  The chief creative officer of DC Entertainment and popular writer weighs in on working with WB Montreal.
  ... More

source:GI

 

[Jick]

If you attack near the same time, a computer can synch up the attacks for an ultra cool combo attack. You can see a bit of this in AC as different animations stretch and have different delays. Perfect for synching. The only problem would be if your partner is half way through a long jump to an enemy, either your animation to go that long way would be rushed or the swing at nothing problem would happen.

IF you attack at the same time. If you don't, you'll stare or jump into the nothingness. It's like when, in the other two games, we turn the wrong side, after hitting the last foe, and we lose the combo. Batman punches nothing. But it is our fault that the combo is lost, no one else.

Other idea, your attack follows through and you end up finishing off whoever your opponent knocked down. This would have the unfortunate effect of making the game more brutal as you could re-finish-off enemies. You can also see a bit of this in how thugs don't generally ragdoll, they're kinda still there to hit for a split second.

Like you said, it's unfortunate. You don't see Batman finishing people off who are already on the ground and defeated. Seems kinda coward, too. Unless he is doing that in the New 52, then you tell me. I'm seeing ideas, but no good ideas.

Long story short, the problem is solvable, partly because they had already begun solving it in AC, and just didn't have time to finish it up. Yes, it means that some people won't be able to get all the achievements... just keep the list of two-player achievements small, and they'll be okay, but not only can people who hate multiplayer, and think all multiplayer is unnecessary and tacked on still do things the normal way, but people who enjoy multiplayer can have a blast too.

If there is ONE achievement that requires MP, I'm still forced to it. It's worse when your friends a different console than yours. Or someone who sucks connects with you and your internet or his is really bad at the moment. If there is none, than I wouldn't care.

Edit: And yes, it will mean you have to pay attention to your partner so that you don't end up falling all over each other, hitting the same guys while other guys attack you both from behind. It will require a new skill: teamwork. But for people who are interested in that skill, they will be rewarded, for those who are not, they will not be penalized.

But then you depend on someone else. If you fail, it's your fault, but, besides having to pay attention to how you're playing, you also have to mind your partner and hope that he doesn't screw up your moment.

The only idea I've seen so far around that, which isn't something that solves the problem, but avoids it, is to create a new kind of combat just for co-op. Throw the freeflow out of the window and do something more simple just so you can fight with your partner. In my opinion, if that's what it takes, then just leave that for another game.

I think it was also mentioned tha idea of dividing the enemies into two groups, one for your partner and one for you. You can't interfere into his combat and he can't interfere with yours, like having a fence between you. I could live with that. It could actually be fun to be in one arena while your partner is in the other and you dispute who cleans the room first, or gets the highest combos and points. That can be quite fun...BUT I think that would defeat the purpose of the kind of co-op you guys want.

 

[zenith16]

But then you depend on someone else. If you fail, it's your fault, but, besides having to pay attention to how you're playing, you also have to mind your partner and hope that he doesn't screw up your moment.

The only idea I've seen so far around that, which isn't something that solves the problem, but avoids it, is to create a new kind of combat just for co-op. Throw the freeflow out of the window and do something more simple just so you can fight with your partner. In my opinion, if that's what it takes, then just leave that for another game.

And the sad part of it all is cause of what you just said, you'll be using that Excuse for each installment to leave it out,, all cause of your obsession with the free flow cobo system, you have currently now.

Some one offers an alternative also of which we know you wouldn't be touching the MP in any way. and your still on to it when you know you have no reason to touch it other wise . Except for the poor excuse of achievements.


Your making it more difficult then it ever has to be or ever should be.

If you have different options of different difficulty settings, when I know alot of people don't always play on the most hardest of settings, then they will just play what they feel like. It can be done for this as well, it's why there's a selection screen.

And one example of this the insanity mode for Mass Effect 3, which is their hardest. It was avoided by most people from what Bioware said with their tracking of players that chose other options to play besides the insanity setting you can select from. yeah most players of that series last installment They chose to skip that part in ME3.
yeah that's right the players of the game did that . It can happen here as well or not with MP. They chose the option, not to play that hardest setting and there were achievement's attached to that as I recall.


Those people know what the power of chose is. They weren't forced to do a damn thing. nore should anyone feel that with this. Achievements be damned.

I think it was also mentioned tha idea of dividing the enemies into two groups, one for your partner and one for you. You can't interfere into his combat and he can't interfere with yours, like having a fence between you. I could live with that. It could actually be fun to be in one arena while your partner is in the other and you dispute who cleans the room first, or gets the highest combos and points. That can be quite fun...BUT I think that would defeat the purpose of the kind of co-op you guys want.

How ever this one I won't object to. this is what's called competitive co-op in a way. But I still say both can be done. and I'm not looking at this in a narrow minded way. But there can be multiple way's of implementing co-op/ Multiplayer for this. this is one and more can be added too as well.

 

[Iceman]

The snow&christmas lights in the background of the pic is so simple..Yet just so f'n visually awesome with Batman posed like that and ready to kick those two thug's asses!

IF there's a new Batman for the JL film or whenever for a solo reboot I hope he looks like this.

 

[Jick]

And the sad part of it all is cause of what you just said, you'll be using that Excuse for each installment to leave it out,, all cause of your obsession with the free flow cobo system, you have currently now.

Each installment of what? Of the Arkham series? Until they find a good way to do that, which I haven't seen so far, then I will. Does that bother you? Stop being such a crybaby. I keep seeing this words ''precious'' and ''obsession'' regarding what I like. I could say the same to you guys and this need to quote me and talk about obsession.

Some one offers an alternative also of which we know you wouldn't be touching the MP in any way. and your still on to it when you know you have no reason to touch it other wise . Except for the poor excuse of achievements.

This is what happens when you read just the part of the post you want and already thinking of your answer. You don't pay attention and post stupid responses. READ!!! Once again:

I could live with that. It could actually be fun to be in one arena while your partner is in the other and you dispute who cleans the room first, or gets the highest combos and points. That can be quite fun

I said in the same post you quoted what I'd be probably playing if they chose to go with co-op. What part of ''I could live with that'' and ''it could actually be fun'' you didn't understand?
As for achievements, I'm not the one who brought that up. I just commented on the subject.

Your making it more difficult then it ever has to be or ever should be.

You're just way too bothered with what you're erroneously interpreting from my posts.

If you have different options of different difficulty settings when I know alot of people don't always play on the most hardest of settings, then they will just play what they feel like. It can be done for this as well, it's why there's a selection screen.

And one example of this the insanity mode for Mass Effect 3 which is their hardest, It was avoided by most people from bioware tracking of players.They chose to skip that. yeah the players did that . It can happen here as well or not with MP. They chose the option not to play that hardest setting and there were achievement's attached to that as I recall.
Those people know what the power of chose is. They weren't forced to do a damn thing.

Almost every game has achievements for beating it on the hardest setting, but you don't depend on anyone else to beat that mode, just your skills. Unlike multiplayer. You're taking it out of context.

 

[zenith16]

No I'm not? I'm sure I do pay attention. anyway people will choose to do what they want with their games when they feel like and that applies to the chose of MP or single player with this.

for example I don't always care about the achievements well unless there's a goal like a prize in game , after doing an action required to get that achievement. TF2 is one of the games that have done this. other wise with other reasons I don't seem to care for it anymore.

And the same could be said of you about reading what you want and paying attention to posts too. the point of that last bit is if you have different selection of setting's people will choose what they want to do out of / from that and shouldn't care to do them all if they don't want to. Which they have chosen with that series of ME3. alot of people had the power of chose that they chose to do and stayed with that chose with out looking back. it will be done and should be done as well with those two categorys.

 

[TX85]

Some of you are still going at it about MP?,It's been over a day or maybe more!

MP is not even confirmed yet and IF it is in then..

IF your against MP-Too f'n bad for you cause you can't have it your way,You have two options..

1-Ignore the game as obviously it's all ruined for you

2-Focus on the positive aspects of the game

IF your in favor of it-Forget about the haters and just enjoy it for yourself,It's their loss

 

[zenith16]

Some of you are still going at it about MP?,It's been over a day or maybe more!

MP is not even confirmed yet and IF it is in then..

IF your against MP-Too f'n bad for you cause you can't have it your way,You have two options..

1-Ignore the game as obviously it's all ruined for you

2-Focus on the positive aspects of the game

IF your in favor of it-Forget about the haters and just enjoy it for yourself,It's their loss

Yeah well I wasn't argueing for the fun of it. I was saying if he wasn't likely to touch it he shouldn't. but then it was about having to do so cause of achievements and being forced to cause of it . "Seriously" if you don't want to touch it don't touch it.

I said so too. I agree . anyway I'm headed out. lol but I did say he shouldn't touch it since he's not likely to or shouldn't be if it's included or not.

It was even numbered. don't worry , I'm taking a break from that. It's is silly. and will be focusing on the positive including if the MP is added or not. I'll be happy with this game. no matter what.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Hah well those who are completely and adamantly against MP are going to have some serious arguing firepower if the SP fails in ANY way compared to the previous two games. I just wish some of these devs would take the CD Projekt approach and realize MP isnt always needed. Im sure they could do an awesome MP for Witcher 3 but they are completely against it because they want to focus on the SP.

 

[Iceman]

I'll be quite happy if they don't include multiplayer in this at all but..... if they do I think I'd prefer it to the solo challenges which feels to me like something that has the negatives of multiplayer and the time diverted from singlepayer for both developer and gamer without the positives.

I'm not really worried by the thought of missing out on a massive freeflow combo during co-op either. Co-op would be fun just taking out a group of thugs with a buddy. If it was independent as in we couldn't help each other out then I don't think I'd be interested. And trying to second guess how the co-op combo system could work well (or not work) is surely difficult if you don't know how it's programmed. We really don't know what's possible as they haven't even tried it yet. I don't want masses of resources directed to it but at the same time I think if a good developer put enough resources towards the multiplayer they could come up with something that was really good.

 

[Iceman]

Hah well those who are completely and adamantly against MP are going to have some serious arguing firepower if the SP fails in ANY way compared to the previous two games. I just wish some of these devs would take the CD Projekt approach and realize MP isnt always needed. Im sure they could do an awesome MP for Witcher 3 but they are completely against it because they want to focus on the SP.

You know the CD Projekt approach is basically the inverse EA approach? t:

 

[ProjectPat2280]

You know the CD Projekt approach is basically the inverse EA approach? t:

Its pretty much the inverse of everyone at the moment.


I rather not have MP in this at all, but as iv said before, if its fun, then i cant complain.

 

[Grievous]

I am glad the game is set Christmas Eve, really gonna add a unique feel to the game.