The Dark Knight Rises Batman: To "Die".. or Not To "Die:?

[bullets]

After reading what the idiots posted on the past thread about "Nolan not killing Batman because that would end the Batman universe", people who have this little knowledge about what a reboot is makes me wonder why they're on this board.

It's more of a wonder that your on this board. Who wants to read arrogant b.s. like this.

 

[The_Raganork]

Some propositions about this movie are so utterly moronic that it's hard to enjoy any discussion that originate from them.

We definitely saw one last night

 

[Sharkboy]

I don't think it's idiotic to think Batman will die in this film, personally I don't want it to happen, and i don't think it will, but it's a legit concern. The marketing of the film so far clearly wants the audience to believe batman is in true peril, The "epic conclusion/this all ends" marketing (which is working fantastically for potter) just gives the idea that maybe, if this is Nolan's last film, he'll have the balls to kill off our hero. It give's the film an added sense of tension and drama...what other super hero film do you legitimately feel the hero's life is in actual danger?

 

[The_Raganork]

I don't think it's idiotic to think Batman will die in this film, personally I don't want it to happen, and i don't think it will, but it's a legit concern. The marketing of the film so far clearly wants the audience to believe batman is in true peril, The "epic conclusion/this all ends" marketing (which is working fantastically for potter) just gives the idea that maybe, if this is Nolan's last film, he'll have the balls to kill off our hero. It give's the film an added sense of tension and drama...what other super hero film do you legitimately feel the hero's life is in actual danger?

Me neither

 

[The_Raganork]

Rag where is your DP from?

I hope I'm savvy enough and that my assumption that DP stands for "Display Picture" and not the other thing....

Jigen, fun old little anime

 

[Sharkboy]

I hope I'm savvy enough and that my assumption that DP stands for "Display Picture" and not the other thing....

Jigen, fun old little anime

Thought it was, I used to be quite the Lupin fan when I was a wee one, completely forgot about it till now though.

 

[bullets]

If someone says crap like "Nolan won't kill Batman because Warner Brothers want money",Do they think that Begins is a sequel to Batman&Robin,do they not know what a reboot is? they deserve whatever they're called for being idiotic, if you agree with them, which you clearly must, then so be it.

Regardless , it's one thing to talk about what might happen but calling people idiots and saying they need to leave the discussion is uncalled for.

 

[The_Raganork]

Regardless , it's one thing to talk about what might happen but calling people idiots and saying they need to leave the discussion is uncalled for.

There may be better language for it but they held the thread captive with that silly idea.

Even when it was explained to them how bad the idea was and how the real world doesn't work as they suggest.

How ending the universe is impossible when reboots are so common ( and will happen)

They still argued moot points about money that held no weight.

If there's going to be a discussion people have to be open to ideas yes but, that also means conceding your idea in the discussion if more valid, factual and logical evidence comes along and refutes it.

 

[KalMart]

Question how are Batman Begins and The Dark Knight any different than Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace? Nolan said its the end of the story he is telling. Do all stories end with people dying? The end of the story doesn't mean the end of the overall mission.

Because Nolan doesn't have an obligation to leave a door open for continuation after his films, and he can have them go where he wants. The hero can die, and the mission can still go on if you write it that way.

Not that he'll definitely do this, but it's not completely illogical.

 

[Sharkboy]

I think it all boils down to how you view the Nolanverse and the trilogy they are set it (or more accurately how Nolan views it)

Is this an elseworlds tale? where anything and everything can happen? Is nolan trying to incorparate the batman mythos onto a world that is similar to ours, where real people that breath, bleed and die (and stay dead) walk around in his version of gotham city. Certainly that viewpoint would make ascertain the fact that this world is finite and that batman can't be making an infinite life at 40 doing this and that this will all eventually end.

Or it could just be just that, a rebooted world, changing the aesthetics of the story and world to that of a more realistic fashion, where this trilogy is just a detailed account of how he became the man he is in the comics.

Like I said it's just perspective, either way works. I doubt money or marketing comes into it much, WB could easily restart a Batman franchise without the need for origins or a re do of continuity. They don't need this film to lead off to whatsoever.

 

[Batarang]

The thought of Batman dying in a film turns my stomach, quite frankly. If it is done, it better be done really, really well because that is a move that takes some balls. On Nolan's part, I guess it would be pretty smart, as it would bring his series to a definitive end, so noone else could come along and tamper with his world. On WB's part, it seems like it could make quite a mess out of things. They don't want to reboot again and so soon, do they? I always figured that we'd be seeing a new director after TDKR and as a result, would get a bit of a different vision, but I at least thought that the Nolan trilogy would serve as the building blocks of that. If Batman dies, that's not possible.

I don't know why, but I just get the feeling that the death of Batman is a very real possibility in the Nolan series. I feel silly saying that and I'll feel even sillier if and when it doesn't happen, but considering the rules of the world Nolan has created and scale of the story he is trying to tell, I just can't say for sure that it won't happen. In any past films, you just knew for sure Batman couldn't possibly die. With this film, that possibility feels pretty real.

 

[Jedm1991]

The thought of Batman dying in a film turns my stomach, quite frankly. If it is done, it better be done really, really well because that is a move that takes some balls. On Nolan's part, I guess it would be pretty smart, as it would bring his series to a definitive end, so noone else could come along and tamper with his world. On WB's part, it seems like it could make quite a mess out of things. They don't want to reboot again and so soon, do they? I always figured that we'd be seeing a new director after TDKR and as a result, would get a bit of a different vision, but I at least thought that the Nolan trilogy would serve as the building blocks of that. If Batman dies, that's not possible.

I don't know why, but I just get the feeling that the death of Batman is a very real possibility in the Nolan series. I feel silly saying that and I'll feel even sillier if and when it doesn't happen, but considering the rules of the world Nolan has created and scale of the story he is trying to tell, I just can't say for sure that it won't happen. In any past films, you just knew for sure Batman couldn't possibly die. With this film, that possibility feels pretty real.

Its been confirmed that WB will reboot Batman very soon after TDKR, most likely to fit in the "Man of steel" world.

 

[The_Raganork]

The thought of Batman dying in a film turns my stomach, quite frankly. If it is done, it better be done really, really well because that is a move that takes some balls. On Nolan's part, I guess it would be pretty smart, as it would bring his series to a definitive end, so noone else could come along and tamper with his world. On WB's part, it seems like it could make quite a mess out of things. They don't want to reboot again and so soon, do they? I always figured that we'd be seeing a new director after TDKR and as a result, would get a bit of a different vision, but I at least thought that the Nolan trilogy would serve as the building blocks of that. If Batman dies, that's not possible.

I don't know why, but I just get the feeling that the death of Batman is a very real possibility in the Nolan series. I feel silly saying that and I'll feel even sillier if and when it doesn't happen, but considering the rules of the world Nolan has created and scale of the story he is trying to tell, I just can't say for sure that it won't happen. In any past films, you just knew for sure Batman couldn't possibly die. With this film, that possibility feels pretty real.

This is the kind of thinking I absolutely Abhor.

Being wrong doesn't make your reasons for believing something any less right.

Batman CAN die, this is a fundamental fact, it is a possibility, NOTHING rules this from happening in the lore. He is a mortal character.

If he doesn't die, that doesn't make the above statement any less true.

Don't fear being wrong, fear being illogical and irrational.

 

[Pagan]

The thought of Batman dying in a film turns my stomach, quite frankly. If it is done, it better be done really, really well because that is a move that takes some balls. On Nolan's part, I guess it would be pretty smart, as it would bring his series to a definitive end, so noone else could come along and tamper with his world. On WB's part, it seems like it could make quite a mess out of things. They don't want to reboot again and so soon, do they? I always figured that we'd be seeing a new director after TDKR and as a result, would get a bit of a different vision, but I at least thought that the Nolan trilogy would serve as the building blocks of that. If Batman dies, that's not possible.

I don't know why, but I just get the feeling that the death of Batman is a very real possibility in the Nolan series. I feel silly saying that and I'll feel even sillier if and when it doesn't happen, but considering the rules of the world Nolan has created and scale of the story he is trying to tell, I just can't say for sure that it won't happen. In any past films, you just knew for sure Batman couldn't possibly die. With this film, that possibility feels pretty real.

Which is exactly why these films have more gravitas than the previous iterations. And I wouldn't doubt that Nolan has the clout to do this despite some WB suits and bean counters. He may have even had it in his contract that his work would be stand alone and exclusive. Not the fodder for someone else to come along and tarnish it with a substandard sequel.

 

[Gianakin_]

No one is calling TDKR "Batman 8" It's clear this is a continuity far from the last films, and that films after this will be (presumably) far from the Nolan films, that is why Nolan could get away with killing Batman, but for bond it would be harder.

But they did use to call BB "Batman 5". It took the people some time to get used to the reboot thingie. Same with CR, I guess.

 

[Nevincer]

And they choose not to. Nolan may choose differently...he doesn't have to do what Bond does.

Precisely.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Which is exactly why these films have more gravitas than the previous iterations. And I wouldn't doubt that Nolan has the clout to do this despite some WB suits and bean counters. He may have even had it in his contract that his work would be stand alone and exclusive. Not the fodder for someone else to come along and tarnish it with a substandard sequel.

You could argue that they have already foreshadowed it in BB with all the speechifying by Ra's, Bruce, and Alfred about symbols.

Ra's: "If you make yourself more than just a man..."

Bruce: "People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy..."

Alfred: "Their murder shocked the wealthy and the powerful into action..."

 

[Sharkboy]

The thought of Batman dying in a film turns my stomach, quite frankly. If it is done, it better be done really, really well because that is a move that takes some balls. On Nolan's part, I guess it would be pretty smart, as it would bring his series to a definitive end, so noone else could come along and tamper with his world. On WB's part, it seems like it could make quite a mess out of things. They don't want to reboot again and so soon, do they? I always figured that we'd be seeing a new director after TDKR and as a result, would get a bit of a different vision, but I at least thought that the Nolan trilogy would serve as the building blocks of that. If Batman dies, that's not possible.

I don't know why, but I just get the feeling that the death of Batman is a very real possibility in the Nolan series. I feel silly saying that and I'll feel even sillier if and when it doesn't happen, but considering the rules of the world Nolan has created and scale of the story he is trying to tell, I just can't say for sure that it won't happen. In any past films, you just knew for sure Batman couldn't possibly die. With this film, that possibility feels pretty real.

Yes it is.

I think we've reached the point where after 3 major films (if you count the upcoming year one) will show Batman's origin's all of them different and varied. There is no reason to "reboot" and do origin stories all over again.

There is nothing to state that starting anew, with Batman already in the midst of his career, is not a possibility for WB. In fact i'll be bold enough to say, that's what I believe will happen.

Nolan is free to do whatever he want's with his character, especially if he doesn't want anyone messing with his continuity, and why should they?

 

[Gianakin_]

Link me...I know an argument for your side that will shut me up...but I want you to say it.

http://www.007.info/News139.asp. Just Xtrl+F the word reboot and you'll see the relevant parts. I'll try and look for more, since this one mentions the word "reboot" mostly from the interviewer's side.

I know someone mentioned the M argument, but if you look a couple of pages back I mentioned it as well.

 

[Nevincer]

You could argue that they have already foreshadowed it in BB with all the speechifying by Ra's, Bruce, and Alfred about symbols.

Ra's: "If you make yourself more than just a man..."

Bruce: "People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy..."

Alfred: "Their murder shocked the wealthy and the powerful into action..."

Ra's: "Their deaths galvanized the city into saving itself."

Bruce: "I'm using this monster to help other people just like my father did."

Bruce's mission is to inspire Gotham to take back their city. If death was the only way his father did it, then perhaps Batman has to make the same sacrifice in order to "shake the wealthy and the powerful into action."

 

[The_Raganork]

http://www.007.info/News139.asp. Just Xtrl+F the word reboot and you'll see the parts.

I know someone mentioned the M argument, but if you look a couple of pages back I mentioned it as well.

eh...I'll accept it, they never say it's a reboot themselves but fine.

Bond is a reboot.

however this doesn't dictate that they couldn't have killed Bond in Die another Day

surely they didn't know what was coming after DAD; we KNOW there's a reboot coming for Batman and that'll be re-imagined.

A good way to separate the series is to have one with a dead Batman and one with a live one.

No one would confuse them

 

[Sharkboy]

but they did call BB "Batman 5". It took the people some time to get used to the reboot thingie. Same with CR, I guess.

To be absolute honest with you, I don't think they will. Not with Bond. It's happened way too much, there have been too many people that have taken the mantle of bond, and the series has been going for nearly 50 years now. It's considerably harder to just accept the next film as Bond 3, especially considering alot of the bond films haven't really connected to each other anyway, they've all been a mess of continuities, and still have managed to feel like part of an ongoing series.

People still largely consider the next film to be Bond 23, I'll admit it myself, im fully aware that CR is a reboot, but i still find myself grouping it with the other 20 movies that preceeded it.

 

[Kynergy]

Yes it is.

I think we've reached the point where after 3 major films (if you count the upcoming year one) will show Batman's origin's all of them different and varied. There is no reason to "reboot" and do origin stories all over again.

There is nothing to state that starting anew, with Batman already in the midst of his career, is not a possibility for WB. In fact i'll be bold enough to say, that's what I believe will happen.

Nolan is free to do whatever he want's with his character, especially if he doesn't want anyone messing with his continuity, and why should they?

I'll be bold with you, I think that's what is going to happen as well. Another origin story seems unnecessary. Nolan did a good job of putting his own twist on the origin, it was good to see something different. Alot of people are familiar with how Batman got started, another origin wont be needed. I'm hoping the reboot starts with Batman already in his career of fighting crime.

Nolan can do whatever he wants with the characters, if he feels its necessary for Batman to die, then so be it. He has a vision, and he will carry out that vision, regardless of what fanboys are going to say.

 

[Gianakin_]

eh...I'll accept it, they never say it's a reboot themselves but fine.

Bond is a reboot.

however this doesn't dictate that they couldn't have killed Bond in Die another Day

Let me be perfectly clear: I never argued anything else other than the fact that CR is a reboot. I agree with everything else you've said, regarding Bond and Batman.

 

[Mako]

eh...I'll accept it, they never say it's a reboot themselves but fine.

Bond is a reboot.

however this doesn't dictate that they couldn't have killed Bond in Die another Day

surely they didn't know what was coming after DAD; we KNOW there's a reboot coming for Batman and that'll be re-imagined.

A good way to separate the series is to have one with a dead Batman and one with a live one.

No one would confuse them

I kinda have to agree, I remember try to tell people that BB was a reboot and not a prequel or continuation of the previous films. The expression on their faces said it all.