The Dark Knight Rises Batman: To "Die".. or Not To "Die:?

[The_Raganork]

Perhaps I phrased that a little wrongly. Put it this way, I -do- believe that, in the eyes of Gotham, "Batman" can die. Batman can die right in front of their eyes, and just like Thomas Wayne, can inspire Gotham to take back their city.

But what happens when this hope, this inspiration, runs out? When after Gotham is saved, its overrun yet again with criminals, injustice and a lack of hope? Then this "symbol", can literally rise from the grave, whether it's Bruce Wayne or someone else, and return to fight for Gotham and continue the cycle yet again.

Like Pagan was saying...



Think of this quote:

"Every time a civilization reaches the pinnacle of it's decadence, we return to restore the balance."

Now that the LOS is gone and Bruce's symbol has supplanted them, Batman will be the one to return to restore the balance, and unlike them, he won't destroy the civilization but inspire them to reform.

I get what you're saying but, I have to offer this:

Batman dying CANNOT be the thing that makes him a legend. He's a murderer right now, if he dies why in God's name would any body care?

Inherently people have to FEAR Batman, you can't look at something you fear and be inspired at the same time.

Well you can but, not effectively (i.e. Citizens for Batman) what Gotham needs is someone who can inspire them to understand and accept Batman.

When crime took over Gotham and it was in it's darkest hour, it could have collapsed upon itself but, it didn't.

when Thomas died people could have given up hope...but, they didn't.

Why? Because they had something to BELIEVE in, Thomas gave the people inspiration, hope something they could latch on to in times of despair. They didn't fear him.

Same with Harvey. Gotham was ready to rip Batman apart but, they didn't, why? Because Harvey gave them HOPE to believe in the spirit of Gotham, that Joker was the enemy not Batman...that even though they couldn't trust Batman they knew he was there for an ultimate good.

You can't wear a mask and hold the people that's what these movies have shown.

If people are to survive Bane and keep faith they need someone they can look to and trust, someone who will tell them that despite the destruction, there is something there to hope for and to not lose that.

that can't be a man they fear and possibly committed murder...it has to be someone like that.

And who better to do that than the Son of the man who showed them that before?

Bruce Wayne, his parents ripped from him...his best friend (Rachel) ripped from him and yet he stands up and says: "Believe" and the people will listen to him, the people will look to Bruce for Hope and Batman for Protection.

Then if either one dies, they live as a force in each and every Gothamites mind.

THAT'S a legend

 

[socool]

I'm only catching bits and pieces of this conversation, but is Batman...gonna kick the bucket? Like is that rumored, hinted at...or are we just playing with the fact that this is the last Batman. I don't think he's gonna die, Batman is Batman and Nolan knows that. Killing him would cause the world to collapse. Not to mention, why would Bane be the one to kill Batman? I mean, don't get me wrong, he is more than capable, but if anyone were to kill Batman...shouldn't it be The Joker? It's the same rule that Superman should (and can) only be killed by Doomsday and Spider-Man should only be killed by The Green Goblin. And The Joker has already passed us by. Though, I will admit, the idea of Batman dieing does come to mind when you watch the trailer, but isn't misleading the name of the game when it comes to trailers?

 

[redhawk23]

Why is everyone so quick to pull the trigger to kill Batman? That is seriously the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard, and if it happens I will walk out of the movie.

It's not "Christopher Nolan's vision". That is such a bull**** statement to defend someone's arrogance and pretentiousness as a "director" it's ridiculous. 70 years + material trumps all over one director's "vision".

He has no definitive vision, he's basically copying and pasting from Year One, Long Halloween, Hush etc. While I love his Batman films, he is in no way entitled to act like he owns Batman. Joel Schumacher did the same thing.

Nolan has really stayed strong and true to the Batman mythos, and to just take one gigantic dump in the finale of these movies by killing the main character would be idiotic.

Well just to play devils Advocate didn't Bruce Wayne die in the comics just last year? At least temporarily?

 

[Rodrigo90]

I don't want it to happen as much as anyone else does. In fact, I don't think that many people think it's an actual good idea, the argument is over people who think that it's an absolutely ludicrous idea to even mention the possibility of it happening.

I honestly don't see the big deal.

When I first heard that this would be just a trilogy of films by Nolan, he wouldn't direct anymore and act as producer in the new rebooted movies, I stopped caring how it would end. Its just a dead end now.

I want to see the movie in all its worth, and if Batman does die, I'll just say -

"See you in a few years time for the next movie, Batman. Bye for now".

Honestly, it would suck though.

 

[bullets]

Why is everyone so quick to pull the trigger to kill Batman? That is seriously the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard, and if it happens I will walk out of the movie.

Only time will tell if Batman dies. It's just speculation but knowing this is supposed to be Nolan's last time with the character he might put an indelible stamp on it. I wouldn't want to see it either but in a good film this could be a compelling and satisfying end to the character.

 

[batbax]

I think when it comes down to it, bane will be so ruthless, the embodiment of evil, that by the time the final act rolls around everyone, the audience, people of Gotham, etc will be wondering if it's even possible for batman to win.. I think the way he pulls it off will be so stunning that he will become "the legend" as ra's says.. I don't think he would be killed off.. But I could see a scenario where his death was faked..

 

[redfirebird2008]

I can't see Batman dying and then the end title "The Dark Knight Rises" popping up... makes no sense. Dying and rising are almost exact opposites.

Not when you're talking about martyrdom.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Not when you're talking about martyrdom.

Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. That would be his legend rising, not the Dark Knight himself.

I mean I get the point you are making but it feels like a stretch. Not as connected as the concluding titles of the previous two films were.

 

[The_Raganork]

Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. That would be his legend rising, not the Dark Knight himself.

I mean I get the point you are making but it feels like a stretch. Not as connected as the concluding titles of the previous two films were.

Even the trailer says "The Dark Knight Legend"

 

[redfirebird2008]

Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. That would be his legend rising, not the Dark Knight himself.

I mean I get the point you are making but it feels like a stretch. Not as connected as the concluding titles of the previous two films were.

It's all in Batman Begins. Tons of speechifying by multiple characters about creating a symbol that is more important than the actions of its creator.

 

[redhawk23]

How would Batman being a martyr be any different than his parents or the public perception of Dent? Gotham has had that. In the end it doesn't bring about any real change.

 

[redfirebird2008]

How would Batman being a martyr be any different than his parents or the public perception of Dent? Gotham has had that. In the end it doesn't bring about any real change.

As Raganork said, it comes down to what he does before his death. Because at the moment his public perception is the guy who killed Dent and other cops.

 

[mackblack01]

I want an end ala The Dark Knight Returns. Where Batman turned the criminals into some kind of protectors for Gotham.

We actually can see some parallels between Bane and the Mutant Leader.

I'm pretty sure someone already brought this idea on this board.

 

[KalMart]

People are discussing killing of Batman like they actually have a say in the matter.

Whereas others are saying that he can't die......as if they have a say in the matter.

 

[The_Raganork]

How would Batman being a martyr be any different than his parents or the public perception of Dent? Gotham has had that. In the end it doesn't bring about any real change.

Read

I get what you're saying but, I have to offer this:

Batman dying CANNOT be the thing that makes him a legend. He's a murderer right now, if he dies why in God's name would any body care?

Inherently people have to FEAR Batman, you can't look at something you fear and be inspired at the same time.

Well you can but, not effectively (i.e. Citizens for Batman) what Gotham needs is someone who can inspire them to understand and accept Batman.

When crime took over Gotham and it was in it's darkest hour, it could have collapsed upon itself but, it didn't.

when Thomas died people could have given up hope...but, they didn't.

Why? Because they had something to BELIEVE in, Thomas gave the people inspiration, hope something they could latch on to in times of despair. They didn't fear him.

Same with Harvey. Gotham was ready to rip Batman apart but, they didn't, why? Because Harvey gave them HOPE to believe in the spirit of Gotham, that Joker was the enemy not Batman...that even though they couldn't trust Batman they knew he was there for an ultimate good.

You can't wear a mask and hold the people that's what these movies have shown.

If people are to survive Bane and keep faith they need someone they can look to and trust, someone who will tell them that despite the destruction, there is something there to hope for and to not lose that.

that can't be a man they fear and possibly committed murder...it has to be someone like that.

And who better to do that than the Son of the man who showed them that before?

Bruce Wayne, his parents ripped from him...his best friend (Rachel) ripped from him and yet he stands up and says: "Believe" and the people will listen to him, the people will look to Bruce for Hope and Batman for Protection.

Then if either one dies, they live as a force in each and every Gothamites mind.

THAT'S a legend

 

[DTH]

Also, I didn't say Nolan was a copycat, I said he's copying and pasting FROM source material. Don't put words in my mouth and twist things around just to pull at straws to justify your arrogance.

 

[-Æ-]

What a tear jerking scene it would be if Batman did die....a bunch of grown men crying in theater together

 

[redhawk23]

Gotham has a dead symbol of hope. Thats what batman maintained at the end, that Harvey's image would not be tarnished. That's what the city needed right then but that is not what will continue to help. The city has its martyrs.

 

[Nevincer]

Whereas others are saying that he can't die......as if they have a say in the matter.

 

[Jick]

I'd hate that. I really hope Batman does not die.

 

[The_Raganork]

Also, I didn't say Nolan was a copycat, I said he's copying and pasting FROM source material. Don't put words in my mouth and twist things around just to pull at straws to justify your arrogance.

Gotham has a dead symbol of hope. Thats what batman maintained at the end, that Harvey's image would not be tarnished. That's what the city needed right then but that is not what will continue to help. The city has its martyrs.

A living Symbol of hope will always be better than a dead one. You can look at them and relate without fearing your own mortality

 

[byte19]

I can't even sleep anymore without you guys keeping this going! so what I miss exactly? Bats "dying" then "rising" to cement his legacy... and rookie DHT 'not' liking it? what's wrong with that? love that idea!

 

[Steyin]

I'm 100% against Batman dying, it just isn't necessary.

 

[KalMart]

What a tear jerking scene it would be if Batman did die....a bunch of grown men crying in theater together

And children doing it over here.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Guys, one of you create a "Should Bamtan die in TDKR?" thread as this is getting tedious and has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.