The Dark Knight Rises Batman: To "Die".. or Not To "Die:?

[Fanticon]

Batman is WB's only reliable Franchise right now . Green Lantern bombed . Superman Returns was a letdown...... You think the last film before another reboot they want to an on a downer ?

seriously, i can hear it already from the general audiences..."didn't batman die? How is he back?"

Look...batman can and may die, through comics or possibly the medium of film one day. But not likely in our lifetime and definitely not with Nolan's trilogy. I don't think WB wants to touch that with a 60ft pole. who would? honestly?

 

[Boom]

People aren't that stupid. Sometimes we exaggerate.

If Nolan were to kill Batman in this film, and there is a reboot five years down the road, I think most people will be able to put two and two together.

"I guess they're starting over again."

 

[The Guard]

I don't want to see Batman die.

Because I don't want to see Christian Bale try to act that. His "pained' moments at the end of THE DARK KNIGHT are almost comical. He seems like he's going to sleep. Wait...maybe he can act a death scene...

 

[Bat-Mite]

I apologize, that was stupid of me to overlook and I can see where you're coming from in that case. The rant wasn't sorerly directed at your post though, it was more about the community as a whole, as by the time that newbie came in and said he'd boycott the film I'd about had enough. I hope you don't take it personally in any way, I tend to enjoy reading your posts from time to time, but then same goes with most of the naysayers... it's the half the time irrational dismissal and silencing of other members when discussing this subject that grinds me gears, and I know you're not really one of them so again, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Oh, I understand. My fuse was quite short with that individual as well because he kept bringing it up in the general discussion thread, and I was like, " There's already a thread to discuss this ****!" So it seems we might have gotten frustrated by the same source and caught each other in the crossfire. Apology accepted, and I likewise apologize if I was a bit grumpy in my response, which I suspect I was.

I agree, but I think where this comparison kind of falls with Batman is that he is not only the protagonist, he's the vehicle that drives the plot. Batman is not only what Frodo is to LOTR, he's what the One Ring is to LOTR as well, and the one ring had to be destroyed in order for LOTR to have closure.

Am I saying Batman's destruction is the meaning of the franchise? Hell no, that would be too direct a comparison, but the plot is about Bruce Wayne, and him using the "Batman" symbol to deter crime and inspire the innocent population to take back their city. Part of the mission, or the story ending, is for Bruce to succeed, meaning he no longer needs to use the vehicle that is 'Batman' to progress through the plot, but the problem with crime is we're talking about an everlasting phenomenon here... this isn't the dark side of the force, there is no one event in which Batman can truly nuetralize something like crime itself... the purpose of Batman isn't finite, but on the other hand, Bruce Wayne is. He's only human, and has a normal human lifespan, whether he dies of old age or is killed as Batman.

So I'm not saying should Bruce die, that he'd fail... surerly in generations to come, someone else would also find a way to fend off criminality, with whatever means in Gotham, be it inspired by Bruce's actions or not. But I think in this situation, to end the proganist's journey in the plot, and to truly give testament to the fact Bruce never gave up, so much so that we see on screen he died whilst being Batman, I think it could serve to be a beautiful ending... show him as a tragic character.

But yeah, there could be other beautiful ways with which to halt the series as well, don't necessarily have to have Bruce dying. I just think it's an option. Because Batman doesn't have a finite "plot", unless the protagonist that perceives the plot ceases, so there's not really anything I could think of that would make a sequel to TDKR implausible otherwise... just that nolan wants to give it a rest, people have too much respect to tamper with what nolan has done and yeah... but all that stuff is outside the realm of the actual storyline, that's all to do with the studio/production.

I think it's an option also, but the more I think about it, the less convinced that this is the way Nolan wants to send the series off. All throughout TDK, during interviews, he was saying that things were going to get worse before they got better, and that was one of the themes of TDK. Alfred even mentions it after Rachel's death. TDK was all doom and gloom... so there has to be some good stuff happening in this movie. Batman has to have his faith (in Gotham) rewarded somehow. After all, the whole tragic character thing was already done in TDK... it was the whole point of the ending. To revisit that with his death would seem like they were beating people over the head with it. I think most people would have understood it the first time around in TDK.

I guess they could show all the positive things happening in Gotham after Bruce's death, but at best the ending of the movie would be bittersweet. Crime can't ever be completely eradicated, and this can't be the over the top camp happy ending of Schumacher, but it should at least be as happy of an ending as Batman Begins, I think. Bruce truly deserves that if things are going to "get better." I will say that one thing that I'd be in favor of is if we THINK Bruce/Batman has died... everything in the movie leads us to believe this, and then in the final shot, we get something like the last shot of Catwoman in Batman Returns and see Batman's silhouette looking down upon the Gotham skyline. Is Bruce still alive? Is this a new Batman with a convincing costume that has taken up Bruce's cause? Don't answer that question, just leave it ambiguous. I think that's an ending that would satisfy almost everyone because they can come to their own conclusions about it. It would be very similar to Burton's BR ending, except we knew that was Selina. We wouldn't know that this was Bruce in the suit. I apologize if all of this sounds crazy as hell, but I only had three hours of sleep last night... who knows what I'll think of this post if I read it tomorrow...

 

[Banescoat]

I don't want to see Batman die.

Because I don't want to see Christian Bale try to act that. His "pained' moments at the end of THE DARK KNIGHT are almost comical. He seems like he's going to sleep. Wait...maybe he can act a death scene...

Although he has a polarizing batman voice and and hasn't been outstanding as Wayne, I don't think Bale's acting is a problem (The Fighter, Breaking Dawn, The Machinist)

 

[Binker]

I have this speculative question: because Nolan wants to conclude this film by resolving everything that started back in Batman Begins, I had this what-if:

What-if...Batman dies?

Listen to me when I explain this; back in Batman Begins, Bruce explained that what he wanted to do, couldn't be done as "Bruce Wayne", but as a symbol, adding that symbols are everlasting, among other things. Then in TDK; not only do you have the Sons of the Batman, but also crime stopping before anything is ever committed when the bat-signal was used and seen by everyone. So it's not just Batman himself, its the logo as well that's effective. And we can tell that, for TDKR, that even with Batman gone, Gotham still thinks he exists regardless if he was last sighted months, maybe even years since.

There's two things that can happen; a) Bruce dies, but the story on him as Batman gets hush-hush. Or b) Batman dies, but Bruce lives. Because in the end, what matters is that Batman still lives in the minds and memories of Gotham's citizens, and thus accomplishing what Bruce set out to do in BB.

Thoughts?

 

[Sith Scotti]

Bale has been the best live action Bruce Wayne by far

 

[filmboy33]

Oh, I understand. My fuse was quite short with that individual as well because he kept bringing it up in the general discussion thread, and I was like, " There's already a thread to discuss this ****!" So it seems we might have gotten frustrated by the same source and caught each other in the crossfire. Apology accepted, and I likewise apologize if I was a bit grumpy in my response, which I suspect I was.
I think it's an option also, but the more I think about it, the less convinced that this is the way Nolan wants to send the series off. All throughout TDK, during interviews, he was saying that things were going to get worse before they got better, and that was one of the themes of TDK. Alfred even mentions it after Rachel's death. TDK was all doom and gloom... so there has to be some good stuff happening in this movie. Batman has to have his faith (in Gotham) rewarded somehow. After all, the whole tragic character thing was already done in TDK... it was the whole point of the ending. To revisit that with his death would seem like they were beating people over the head with it. I think most people would have understood it the first time around in TDK.

I guess they could show all the positive things happening in Gotham after Bruce's death, but at best the ending of the movie would be bittersweet. Crime can't ever be completely eradicated, and this can't be the over the top camp happy ending of Schumacher, but it should at least be as happy of an ending as Batman Begins, I think. Bruce truly deserves that if things are going to "get better." I will say that one thing that I'd be in favor of is if we THINK Bruce/Batman has died... everything in the movie leads us to believe this, and then in the final shot, we get something like the last shot of Catwoman in Batman Returns and see Batman's silhouette looking down upon the Gotham skyline. Is Bruce still alive? Is this a new Batman with a convincing costume that has taken up Bruce's cause? Don't answer that question, just leave it ambiguous. I think that's an ending that would satisfy almost everyone because they can come to their own conclusions about it. It would be very similar to Burton's BR ending, except we knew that was Selina. We wouldn't know that this was Bruce in the suit. I apologize if all of this sounds crazy as hell, but I only had three hours of sleep last night... who knows what I'll think of this post if I read it tomorrow...

Batmite, I like this idea for the ending. I still think Nolan will really kill Bruce. But your idea is unique as well and accomplishes the same objective without actually killing Bruce. I still feel strongly that Batman will live on in some way at the end of TDKR. Personally, I would love for it to be revealed at the very end of the film that Bruce had a son with either Selina or Talia, depending. It just plays so nicely into the themes of the series involving fathers and sons, be is Ra's/Bruce, Thomas/Bruce, Alfred/Bruce, or parents and their children, Talia/Ra's, perhaps Selina/Falcone. Plus it allows for Bruce's family line to live on and perhaps hint that the son may follow in his father's footsteps someday.

 

[S.A.A.D.]

If Nolan doesn't want a sequel to the TDKR, then I say that he should kill off Batman since making him hang up the Batman side would be pretty redundant.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think if they wanted to do a finite end to Bruce's story then, as many have said, they obviously should look no further than DKR.The idea that Batman inspires an entire generation of crime fighters to protect and constantly maintain peace within Gotham is ,in my opinion, probably the greatest end that could possibly happen for Bruce.

 

[Nevincer]

I think if they wanted to do a finite end to Bruce's story then, as many have said, they obviously should look no further than DKR.The idea that Batman inspires an entire generation of crime fighters to protect and constantly maintain peace within Gotham is ,in my opinion, probably the greatest end that could possibly happen for Bruce.

The more I think about it, the more I realize why this would be a more definitive ending than Batman dying even.

 

[MultipleJesuses]

I was kinda on the fence about Batman dying but I was watching TDK last night and Dent's line "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." hit me differently for some reason.

Dent was right, Batman can't do this forever. I think for Batman to finally win over the public, change Gotham, he needs to 'die'. In its simplest form its a sympathy vote from the public for Batman. This normal man went out and fought and died for them to be a little safer. With the 'big name' villains like Joker, Ras etc out of the game Gotham's public, politicians and cops can stand up to the mob. Or whats left of it.

People can look to people like John Blake who apparently saves schoolboys from a burning building.

Batman can 'die' in the process of subduing Bane in such a way that looks like the cops arrested Bane after Batman died trying.
Bruce Wayne then gradually appears more and more in the public eye. Then 20 years down the line or maybe sooner we get a rough adaptation of Dark Knight Returns.

Sorry if my explaination isn't 100% accurate as I'm slightly drunk yet sober enough to know what I mean.

 

[daveswb]

I think what makes the most sense, and it seems to be maybe what is being hinted at in the trailer and rumors, is we would end up with something between The Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come. A Batman so badly beaten by Bane that he is forced to retire, but not dead. And ending up with an army of followers to fight crime.

They hinted at it already in The Dark Knight with all the imposter batmem. If Nolan truly wants to end the story here that seems the best way to do it. Catwoman being th first recruit.

This is just my opinion, but it's how I would do it. Killing Batman would be a lousy trick that most Batman fans wouldn't stand for.

 

[nocomics]

Bale has been the best live action Bruce Wayne by far

Ya, its kindof a toss up between Bale and Keaton imo,with maybe a slight nod to Bale..I didn't really care for Clooney nor Kilmer really.

Far as Batman to die in this film, I personally wouldn't be opposed to it if its done right. I wouldn't worry about the audience down the road saying " But he died" if they did a reboot I think the general audience is not that out of loop to know whats going on.

*I think it be something totally unexpected if this type of character dies to end the series, aka NEO in the Matrix..You just don't see it done really especially a character as Iconic as Batman.

 

[MultipleJesuses]

I think what makes the most sense, and it seems to be maybe what is being hinted at in the trailer and rumors, is we would end up with something between The Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come. A Batman so badly beaten by Bane that he is forced to retire, but not dead. And ending up with an army of followers to fight crime.

They hinted at it already in The Dark Knight with all the imposter batmem. If Nolan truly wants to end the story here that seems the best way to do it. Catwoman being th first recruit.

This is just my opinion, but it's how I would do it. Killing Batman would be a lousy trick that most Batman fans wouldn't stand for.

I like this idea. Plus we had rumors of loads of Batman imposters.

 

[AnneFan]

The journey will end, and it may get pretty nail bitingly dramatic. But I cannot see Batman flat out dying, for real. I do see him becoming a legend in "apparent" death, though. Much like how the Joker 'dies' often. They could even put in a final scene much like Batman Returns, where we see Catwoman's shadow. The myth of Batman lives on, almost certain to return one day. Because as we know, without Batman, most of these criminals, especially the theatrical ones, would cease to exist. In the comics, the Joker for one reverted to a relatively normal life when he heard Batman was gone, for example. An ending like that gives equilibrium.

 

[noonelovesrobin]

I don't want to see Batman die.

Because I don't want to see Christian Bale try to act that. His "pained' moments at the end of THE DARK KNIGHT are almost comical. He seems like he's going to sleep. Wait...maybe he can act a death scene...

Yeah, we needed Tobey Maguire crying scenes at those moments Bale probably the last guy would make those moments seem comical.

I don't want Batman die heroic because he is not Braveheart.Who will protect Gotham if Batman dies.. Even if Bruce dies and somebody else wears Batsuit, it wouldn't end story..more like opening new chapter.

I think its better to end as Bruce lives and always be there to protect.

 

[LeoKragg]

Damn, I'm more concerned about the last half hour than anything else!


I think Bruce will hang up the Batman mantle, shortly after the events concerning Bane and the League which will cement the legend of Batman big time. I also have thought about an ending that's similar to what Bruce does in Kingdom Come and/or the end of The Dark Knight Returns- but the Kingdom Come bat-sentinals seem out of character for this Bruce- 15 foot tall bat robots ruling with an iron fist! Seems kinda scary in a robo-cop kinda futuristic way. The TDKReturns ending leaves room for continuation which Nolan has said he doesn't do with the Rises. There is no room for the story to continue after the events in the movie. Batman will "die". The last moments of the movie will take place a few years later: the movie will fast forward to show that Bruce continued on with his fathers work- has a family- and has made the difference in Gotham he had always hoped to. No room for continuation in this scenario!

 

[Rowsdower!]

Multiple endings? Like in Clue?

AWESOME!

 

[LeoKragg]

To tell you the truth I don't know what the ending could possibly be. I'm baffled, as I can't even imagine how Rises ends! and it's killing me!!!!

 

[speculativeone]

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[LeoKragg]

I think the bat-signal will be turned on every night in Gotham, so noone ever gets out of pocket again in the future.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I think Batman "dies" only in the sense that after Bane/LoS are defeated, Batman is no longer needed as Gotham's guardian. As for what Bruce does after he hangs up the suit, I think we'll see something along the lines of what his dad was doing to fix up the city (which Gotham is going to need after seeing the destruction so far in the released clips and trailers.)

 

[Leenie]

If Batman dies in this movie, this will be one BALLSY film. Based on the tones and messages of this trilogy thus far, though ... It would actually make sense if he did die. If he didn't, I would believe that in this world as well. I think it could go either way.

Now, if [BLACKOUT]Alfred ends up dying[/BLACKOUT], I will be an inconsolable mess. No lie. I won't be able to handle it.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

If Batman dies in this movie, this will be one BALLSY film. Based on the tones and messages of this trilogy thus far, though ... It would actually make sense if he did die. If he didn't, I would believe that in this world as well. I think it could go either way.

Now, if [BLACKOUT]Alfred ends up dying[/BLACKOUT], I will be an inconsolable mess. No lie. I won't be able to handle it.

Him or [BLACKOUT]Fox[/BLACKOUT] would do it for me.