Batman v Superman - Reviews Thread [TAG SPOILERS] - Part 1

Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by Thread Manager, Mar 24, 2016.

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  1. Sleiek

    Sleiek Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I have heard quite a few who enjoyed it better the second time around for the same reasons you mentioned.

    You were absolutely right about the bolded part, in my case. Now that I have took the time to think about it, I am liking the movie more.
     
    #851
  2. rockandrollsoul

    rockandrollsoul Well-Known Member

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    It is the last time that I read a review before seeing a movie I'm already interested in.

    And while those reviews have valid criticisms, I feel those criticisms are exaggerated.
     
    #852
  3. Sleiek

    Sleiek Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100%
     
    #853
  4. roach

    roach I am the night

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    I enjoyed this movie. It's not a perfect film but IMO the good outweigh the bad

    "You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."

    This right here is Batman's arc in the movie...which is shown in the opening...when young Bruce runs...stumbles...falls and is lifted into the light by bats.

    Batman/Bruce in this film is damn new perfect. He's suave and playboy-ish as Bruce and is brutal as Batman. This Batman is closer to Frank Miller's Batman in The Dark Knight Returns. That Batman wouldnt be beyond crippling foes and even outright killing them. Batman kills in this one. I wasn't too bothered by this because no cinematic Batman (other than Adam West...Batman '66 had an episode shown in the theaters) hasn't killed. It also makes sense. This is a Batman that had been in the good fight for 20 years and those 20 years have not been kind. It also reminded me of how Batman was when Tim Drake came on the scene. From the Batman wiki: After Jason's death, Timothy began to take notice of a drastic and almost psychotic change in Batman's behavior, in which he became convinced that Batman needed a Robin to maintain his sanity.

    Superman becomes the stand in for WB/ Zack Snyder. No matter how much good they think they are doing there will always be detractors. This movie proves that in spades. This Superman exists in a world that still looks at him sideways. I like his characterization in this universe. I think there were some minor missed opportunities with Superman. 1) We should have gotten a shirt rip and 2) I think we needed a big save...something like the airplane save in Superman Returns.

    Lex Luthor in this movie seems to be an amalgam of Silver Age Lex and Modern Age Lex. In his original incarnation Lex was a scientist who goes mad and tries to destroy Superman because he caused his hair loss. Not a particularly stable person. While I like the performance I think he needed to have a stronger motivation for hating Superman. If I was doing it I would have Lex lose someone in the Black Zero event...and since mothers play an important part of the film I would have it be his mother. As it stands we don't know if Lex was doing this because of his own wants and needs or because someone is controlling him. I liked the timer gag and wish that was something that was established from the get go.

    Story...I didn't have any real issues with the story. Lex sets up the fight between the two and wants Superman to kill Batman...in front of the cameras...to show to the world that Superman isn't to be trusted. Where Lex's plans go off the rails is with Doomsday...he has no control over Doomsday.

    Nightmare scene. I know people had issues with this scene but when I was thinking about this scene it reminded me of Uncanny X-Men #209. It was my first comic book I bought for myself. In the issue the X-Men are fighting the Hellfire Club when Nimrod shows up and screws everything on it. In the middle of this epic fight...the book cuts away to a young mutant running in the train yards and being hunted down and killed by the Marauders. This site up the Mutant Massacre in issue #211. It was a scene that had nothing to do with the current plot but set up the upcoming plot.

    The Cool:
    Batman...everything about him
    Wonder Woman...makes me really want to see her movie.
    Superman...makes me really want to see a solo Superman film.
    The Cameos.
    Joe Morton as Silas Stone...he played the scientist who creates Skynet in Terminator 2

    The Bad:
    Lex's end game?
    Drags a little in the beginning

    9/10
     
    #854
  5. Mike_D202

    Mike_D202 Green Lantern's roommate

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    Loved this film. Loved it. Some people said that we should have gotten at least one more Superman film before this, but I disagree. We've had almost a century of backstory for these two characters, I'm glad they jumped right in with seasoned heroes.
     
    #855
  6. bholliday

    bholliday Well-Known Member

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    This film was severely lacking for me in nearly every aspect.

    My video review is here:

    [YT]I7Sa3oNmAWA[/YT]
     
    #856
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  7. Cats

    Cats Hot-blooded Feline

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    For those who didn't like Batman v Superman or found it confusing, there might've been a deep philosophical message that you glazed over. This is the true essence of why, even as an adult, I love some of these comics.(Spoiler alert)

    [YT]rKRmMQaLZz8[/YT]
     
    #857
  8. Zing79

    Zing79 Well-Known Member

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    Not my quote, but I'll just leave this here.

    ...I actually kinda feel sorry for people who waited their wholes lives for this movie and now have no choice but to defend this piece of **** despite staring directly at its bloated, convoluted carcass. I guess the go to weapon of choice now is to say critics have no idea what they’re talking about since Batman V Superman is making money. Wal-Mart makes money. For real, like it wasn’t going to make money. It’s just a **** movie. Were the critics wrong about Deadpool? The Dark Knight? Batman Begins? Iron Man? I mean, ****. Were they wrong about The Incredibles?


    Source: http://idly.craveonline.com/2016/03...x-luthor-jesse-eisenberg/#IhB3MbY3UQCo5XAQ.99
     
    #858
  9. HELLilac

    HELLilac Well-Known Member

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    How is this condescended rambling worth re-posting? It's so wrong. I recognised all the flaws but there're so many things I loved and I had a great time watching it. I don't defend the movie because I have no choice. Just because critics hate it doesn't mean I have to listen to them. They gave Boyhood and Gravity such high scores and both movie bored me. I pay for my own ticket so the only opinion that matters the is my own.
     
    #859
  10. AnneFan

    AnneFan Hathaway #1

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    That is a worthless comment, and makes many assumptions. The person who made it didn't like the film, and assumes deep down, other don't like it either, and are forcing themselves to like it. Which is false. People do genuinely like the film. That must be too hard for some people to accept.
     
    #860
  11. Micromind

    Micromind New World New Rules

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    I am happy that I decided not to read any reviews before going to see the movie. :oldrazz:
     
    #861
  12. lukebrodyg

    lukebrodyg Well-Known Member

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    It's funny...I read most of the blurbs on RT, good and bad, before seeing it and I still enjoyed it the first time. I kept thinking, "what movie did they see!?"
     
    #862
  13. jeevanjacobjohn

    jeevanjacobjohn Well-Known Member

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    For some reason, it is really is hard for some people to accept that people love this film.

    Instead they try to "explain" it - denial, fanboy bias et all.
     
    #863
  14. DeadPresident

    DeadPresident Well-Known Member

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    The thing is a lot of people don't want to see that and will continue to try and tear this movie down despite the fact that for some viewers it provided a very poignant and resonant conclusion.

    Half the hype is all about "Not muh Superman" and "Not muh Batman".
     
    #864
  15. Bruce_Kent_III

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    I love how certain "fans" believe fans of this movie are in "denial." I think it's fair to say that DC fans know a "stinker" when they see it and are NOT afraid to admit it.. <cough> Catwoman <cough> Green Lantern <cough> Nolan's TDKR <cough> I mean, these movies are universally hated by both DC and Marvel fans! WTF.

    (Although, I kinda like GL, guilty pleasure and all.. :) )
     
    #865
  16. roach

    roach I am the night

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    The problem is both sides are talking down to each other trying to discredit their opinions.... You hate the movie so you must love Marvel.
    You love the movie so you must be a blind fanboy.
    It's getting to the point where this place is starting to resemble CBM
     
    #866
  17. spidey-dude

    spidey-dude Y.N.W.A

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    nope didn't glaze over it, thought it was ham fisted and obvious and nowhere near as deep as it thought it was, actually - then again I only got halfway through the video you posted as the guy kept stating the obvious, it wasn't subtle in the film, it was very easy to pick up on not sure why this guy is acting like what he is saying is a revelation

    I am glad that there are people who like it though and feel differently about it
     
    #867
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  18. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Likewise :up:
     
    #868
  19. CConn

    CConn Fountainhead of culture.

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    I'm going to go with a 7/10.

    Everything about Batman was perfect. Everything. There needs to be an Affleck Batman movie yesterday. That's how good he is.

    Wonder Woman was great. Obviously, wasn't given a ton, but she's clearly incredible. Can't wait for Wonder Woman next year.

    I was mostly okay with Luthor. Not what I would've done with him, but given how straight everybody else played it and had to play it, his eccentricity was really necessary. But ultimately, Eisenberg went TOO far with it. And instead of merely being eccentric, he kept reminding me of The Riddler. And I don't even mean that in a disparaging way, it's just what his character kept reminding me of.

    Snyder was obviously on point with all of the imagery and just artistic feel of the movie.

    I didn't have much of a problem with the plot of the movie or how the first act jumped around. It was just a kind of massive story - where he had to follow the stories of multiple people. I could keep up with it. And a lot of the quick edits people complained about was merely to show the parallels or similarities between the storylines.

    The problem with the movie was the cohesiveness of the direction. Snyder just has no idea how to be suble about anything, and has no idea how to correctly pace and make scenes sensible and flow. I don't know. It's hard to explain. But it's clear to see. It's stupid too because it's super little things that aren't that important, but throw off the feel of the movie overall.

    Lastly, the tone was a little uneven. I actually loved the sober nature of the beginning of the movie, but by the time we get to doomsday, it's weird that it's all Justice League colorful...kinda.

    I really hope they end up making Justice League, though. The tone during the Doomsday fight was perfect for JL. And the chemistry between the big three were great.

    Probably the one frustrating aspect of the movie is - if you took the exact same plot, actors, production team, etc. And paired them with a more competent writer and director, this movie could easily be absolutely incredible. The themes, the overall intent that Snyder had for the movie was pretty much perfect. Batman's paranoia, the questions about Superman's godlike abilities, Luthor's behind the scenes machinations...all exactly what they needed to be in theory. They just weren't delivered as well as they could have been.
     
    #869
  20. spidey-dude

    spidey-dude Y.N.W.A

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    summed up perfectly for me

    especially the frustration part
     
    #870
  21. KillerWolf

    KillerWolf Possibly partially drunk

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    So, I've seen BvS and enjoyed it immensely as I was watching it. But it definitely has its flaws, some which I find to be unforgivable, given the long post-production. I'll try to cover most points...

    Style and characterization


    First of all, I love the fact that it is first and foremost a character-driven film. I was pleasantly surprised by this. There were some great fight scenes for sure (one of them was so hnnnnngh), but at times it feels like a drama viewed from the perspectives of film's two protagonists. Even though it was a bit unexpected, once I realized that it is basically a bildungsroman I learned to appreciate the film even more. All actors did a great job and characterization of the heroes is for most part ([BLACKOUT]*cough* Batfleck does a Keaton *cough*[/BLACKOUT]) on-point. Cavill has upped his game and is even better Superman here than in MOS, Gadot's Diana (and Wondy) is great and Affleck is now officially my favorite live-action Batman. I don't like the fact
    that he kills, but at least he is not doing it callously (one could excuse him killing that guy when he saves Martha) and I pretty much expect live-action Batmen to kill the way Batfleck does in this film. Was hoping that Snyder will go in another direction for a change, but I got used to it.

    As for Eiseberg's Lex, while his erratic and psychotic version was amusing (and was quite unsettling at times), it's not really that much of a Lex Luthor in the end, I'd say. Even as a younger, modern version, it simply doesn't fit the mold of what the character from comics is supposed to be. Also, don't know if this was purely Terrio's idea or Snyder pushed for it, but I got tired of him constantly speaking in Christian terms and I didn't mind those parallels in MOS. Matter of fact, I don't like how he uses quotes quite often and would prefer him saying something akin to the speech he gives in "Lex Luthor: Man of Steel" (about Superman being the end of human achievements) instead of quotes and comparisons to gods, devils, angels and devils he makes. Shortly, I would prefer a Ray Bradbury's or Arthur C. Clarke's approach to an alien changing what it means to be human when it comes to Luthor's characterization, instead of him speaking in mythological and religious terms. I feel it would work perfectly with the world that was set-up in MOS, it's a wasted opportunity, but oh well... so, yeah, I was kinda amused by Eisenberg's Luthor and I guess he gave a solid performance of the version they decided to do, but it's too much out there for my tastes.

    Storytelling

    I will mention two things I probably liked the most from the storytelling point (spoilers, of course):

    1. Ingenious use of Flash to set the greater DCEU (I really like how Darkseid's coming creates the feeling of urgency and that of cosmic Lovecraftian horror, by the way). I absolutely love the knighmare scene (it was mindblowing on the big screen) and how the Justice League characters are being introduced. Matter of fact, I prefer this approach to MCU's, I can't think of a better way to bring those characters together and expand the universe.

    2. The use of the name "Martha" (both Bruce's and Clark's mother's name) to finally make Bruce realize he is not fighting a creature or a thing, but a "human" being who loves people close to him and is loved by them in return.

    By the way, I saw people completely failing to understand the scene and saying "he stopped the fight because they both have a mother named Martha, how stupid is that?". No dumbass, he stopped the fight because the name has struck a chord in him, reminding him for the love he had for his own mother and the pain he suffered by losing her and realizing that the alien, the inhuman threat in front of him he was just about to kill, experiences those same feelings. That is the moment where he looks at Superman and for the first time sees a person instead of an omnipotent, highly dangerous being. And given that Bruce is not a sociopathic murderer (not even this more brutal one) he is not able to kill him anymore and is taken aback by what he almost did, hurling the spear as result.
    If people have spent less time moaning that they're watching the Wayne murder scene again and have paid attention to Bruce Wayne's character arc instead of complaining that it's boring, they would realize the real reason why Bruce reacts the way he did when Lois says Martha's name, as it couldn't be clearer. Point being - pay attention to the film, as it might prevent you from looking stupid when you diss something just because its meaning completely flew over your head.

    Now, onto the bad things... there are pretty much two things that bother me quite a bit about this film:

    I don't know what happened in the editing room, but while I am pretty sure that cutting out the sixth of the film took its toll and that director's cut will be better, I cannot forgive Snyder for managing to make this film feel so disjointed and all over the place at times. BvS often feels like an introductory film more than a story on itself and it would seem that juggling so many balls in effort to pave the way for "Justice League" was something Snyder simply couldn't handle well. And I say again, this film had a very long post-production and I simply can't excuse Snyder for editing it so badly, he should have found a way to make it work. But it seems that the old worry about this film trying to achieve too much - be a proper MOS sequel a Batman film and an introduction to the Justice League all at once - proved to be true.

    Also, way too many things are happening off-screen and the plot feels weak. At times it feels like pieces of the puzzle are missing when it comes to this film. While I can assume that Superman
    realized Bruce is Batman either at the party or in the batmobile-crashing scene, it was odd to see him suddenly call him by the name in the title fight.
    Not to mention that Lex's plan is utterly idiotic and it's a miracle that it almost worked. Can't believe they couldn't think of something better, especially with Lex supposedly being a genius. If Superman managed to mouth the words
    "they got my mother" it would all be over. Luckily for Lex Bruce didn't give him a chance to finish the sentence (being a dick he is :woot:, though I think it is also due to him trying to get Supes into the fight and set the plan in motion as soon as possible, as he didn't have the luxury of giving Superman time to figure it out and gain the upper hand). Still there was at least one more opportunity for Superman to say so, instead of "stay down, if I wanted it you'd be dead already", but I guess that Superman could be thinking "okay, he obviously needs to get it out of his system, I'll play along and put him down, showing him that he can't possibly fight me and once he cools off I'll explain the situation to him", but then kryptonite kicks in and Bats starts punching.
    But even if I excuse Supes indulging the fight, entire plot around the title fight was surprisingly weak and I didn't like it at all. The plot I mean, not the fight itself. Also, while it is clear where the film is going to, there is no real sense of buildup before the third act. It feels like it just happens. More often than not that's how the plot points feel in this film - now this happens, now we jump to this, without a feel of proper introduction.

    Now a big spoiler:

    As for Superman dying, it was spoiled to me a day before I saw the film by an idiot bartender (he can only dream of a tip, the bastard. And he makes a crappy bloody mary as well), so I went into the film knowing about the ending (****ing bartender!), but I still don't know what to make of it. It kinda makes sense with Doomsday being there that it will happen, same we knew Bane was going to break Batman's back in "The Dark Knight Rises", but at this moment I don't see the point of killing and returning him. Maybe the world without Superman was needed for subsequent films... before I watch "Suicide Squad" (Ayer did point out how connected the films are), "Wonder Woman" and "Justice League" I can't really comment on it. I wish it ended on a different note, with Superman alive, but if it's more than just a gimmick and makes for a good story in films that are to come I am all for it. We'll see. I do wonder when and how he will return... I'd bet not before the "Justice League".

    Score

    Zimmer was annoying to me at times, he was bashing my head with bombastic music whenever a certain character appears. On the more positive side, "A Beautiful Lie" from the gorgeous opening sequence is probably my favorite composition Zimmer has done in the last ten or so years. I reckon it's due to the fact that he was heavily channeling Clint Mansell there, one of my favorite composers (and a much better one than Zimmer, I'd say).

    Summary

    Anyway, I am aware of the negative critics and while I agree with them on the points of the choppy editing and weak plot, those who call this film too dark, dour or depressing are saying absolute bulls**t. It's nowhere near that. I mean, yes it is dark, due to the very fact that Batman is there and this one suffers from PTSD and that Superman is struggling with what he stands for, but there are moments of levity and humor and, while again it is a drama more than anything else, it never felt depressing. Film is enjoyable in every way, apart from the fact that at times it feels more like a bunch of sequences with missing pieces than a cohesive film. To put it shortly - what one sees at the moment is enjoyable, but the film on a whole does fail to come across some messages it set out to do, mostly because the story feels so loose and badly connected.

    Overall, as a DC fan I love the film on account of the characterizations (sans Lex) and all the DC things that were thrown to me, ([BLACKOUT]mother box, Darkseid, Cyborg, Aquaman, Flash[/BLACKOUT], as well as lines and elements that were clearly taken from comics like TDKR, DOS, "Kingdom Come", etc.), film had its strong moments and some absolutely mindblowing ones... characters were handled well, fights were good to great and imagery is absolutely stunning (that opening sequence is so hnnnnnngh). I haven't seen anything like it in another CBM, shots are like an oil painting at times. Still, as someone who expects much firmer and cohesive narrative and plot, I must say that I'm rather disappointed by how the film was constructed (both written and edited) and was very surprised how weak the entire plot was. I might prefer the overall tone of BvS, but MOS was a better structured film with firmer story. I think what makes me seeing some things in perhaps a bit more negative light than I would is that there's plenty of great things in the film and it had a potential to be truly great. That wasted opportunity is what ticks me off the most. Of course, I could say "if I were writing it, I'd do this and this differently", but it is easy to be a general after the battle is done... truth is, if I were writing it, I wouldn't come up with some of the greater moments from this film, so I simply won't go there. It's pointless.

    Given that it's obviously a film that serves as an introduction to the "Justice League", I am willing to give it a pass on some things, but still Snyder better get his s**t together when it comes to handling plots, subplots and multiple characters, since he truly did manage to screw it up to an extent and I certainly don't want the "Justice League" to suffer these same problems. I'm not sure how much is there on Terrio to blame, but I wouldn't entirely excuse him either. This is a film that should definitely be seen in the cinema, as scenes itself are good (again with some stunning visuals and mindblowing moments). I look at it from two perspectives - as a collection of scenes, I really like it, but as a film on its whole, I have hoped for much better. Namely, with firmer, better written plot, better editing at times and change of Lex Luthor, this film would be great. Thing is, aside from certain Lex moments, there's barely any scene I can point my finger at and say "that scene is terribly written"... obviously, the problem is not with what the film set out to be, but what it turned out to be.

    I've seen it twice already, I enjoy it more every time I see it and still feel like there is indeed a great film somewhere in there that just doesn't get to shine through. I'd say that it has greater rewatchabillity than MOS, even though I prefer how the plot was handled in MOS as opposed to BvS. "Director's Cut" might correct some of the flaws, but those flaws shouldn't have been there in a two and a half hour long film, in the first place.

    So much from me.
     
    #871
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  22. Lencho01

    Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

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    Decided to say something...

    Going into this film, I of course was a skeptic (I'll miss that thread. Some great discussions there). But, I thought the film would at least be more entertaining than MOS. As we got closer to the release, I thought it was going to be to the Schumacher films what the Burton films were to the Adam West show: essentially the same thing, just with a little "darkness" and "seriousness" (all pretty goofy things in their own ways).

    And then those preview comics came out. More than anything else (trailers, interviews, etc), those got me more excited and actually gave me a little bit of hope that the film would at least be ok.

    So...

    Thank you WB, Snyder, Goyer, Terrio, and all involved for confirming things I've suspected based on your past films and comments (before and after films releases). You don't know what you're doing, you don't like Superman, and you've provided the perfect example of White male mediocrity in Hollywood. You truly can fail upwards in that business, man.

    Thank you for this boring piece of **** of a film. Even the surface-level stuff I was mostly watching for, did nothing for me.

    Thank you for instilling a new appreciation for all the previous films, shows, and of course comics that have involved these characters. This includes the stuff I didn't like or didn't care for as a whole or certain aspects of those depictions.

    Thank you for reminding me of why I fell in love with these characters in the first place and found/find them interesting. Of why I bother to continue watching/reading them. Of why I shared that love with my brothers and plan to do so with my future children.

    As always, I'm ready for the reboot(s).
     
    #872
  23. Kane52630

    Kane52630 Something's gotta stop the flow

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    [​IMG]
     
    #873
  24. Goshdarn Batman

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    A few positive things about BS that I haven't mentioned:

    - Doomsday is frightening.
    - Great fight scenes (Batman saving Martha, not the terrible Knightmare crap)
    - Nice outfit (Batman)
    - I liked Wonder Woman.

    Negative things:
    - Lex Luthor. I wish they gave him a death sentence for his crimes in this movie. I don't want to see this clown in more movies.
     
    #874
  25. Lencho01

    Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

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    This was me throughout the film...

    [​IMG]
     
    #875
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