The Dark Knight Batsuit Discussion Thread

[Cúchulainn]

Stop putting your opinion up on a pedestal - you're no better than Sandouras if you do. You're welcome to having one, but don't give it as fact - that's arrogant.

No I won't stop anything, thank you very much. Your patronising tone is quite arrogant.

What did I say that was wrong? Gotham IS meant to be decrepid... It's a FACT.

And I said that Keaton was the best IMO. What more can i ****ing do!?

 

[SheldonLevene]

No I won't stop anything, thank you very much. Your patronising tone is quite arrogant.

What did I say that was wrong? Gotham IS meant to be decrepid... It's a FACT.

And I said that Keaton was the best IMO. What more can i ****ing do!?

You are very excited. or maybe angry

 

[Cúchulainn]

I'm not angry...

You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

 

[Sandouras]

First of all... Gotham is not meant to be a nice place. In fact, it's meant to be a really really ****ty place. A place that's decaying and needs batman.

Secondly. Nolan isn't going to way of an altruistic philanthropic Wayne, he's chosen to go for a nitwit prick of a Wayne, and from the sides and other things I've read, Wayne doesn't really change much in the next one. Nolan got this wrong. Wayne is meant to be a nice guy.

Finally. whatever about the best Batman, Keaton was unquestionably the best Wayne, IMO. He most certainly wasn't a ****ty wayne.

Wayne is not meant to be a nice guy. He is meant to be an obsessive d***. Kinda like house. Read some comics and dont judge or act superior when your knowledge is limited to BTAS. Some comics portray him as a drunk playboy (year one), some as a philanthropist businessman. Most of the time he acts out of character to throw off suspicion. In fact i think that BTAS was coming too strong and too righteous to avoid suspicion. He was focused and assertive. I loved him though. You also dont know where TDK takes him.

Furthermore, i didnt say that Gotham is meant to be a nice place. I am just saying that a viewer cant stand watching the narrows or Burton's asphyxiating gotham for 2 hours. Thats why we need some daylight and some nice coat. Its part of the fun that socko is talking about.

And finally, even though some will say its subjective, i think that its objective. Bale is Bruce Wayne in every way. Keaton was a goofy little man. He was Clark Wayne. His hair was bad, his physique was bad. And he was brooding. That was the only thing he ever did.
Bale starred at the stethoscope and brooded, but he was a playboy, a fighter and a detective (please noone start this arguement again. He did deliver all the evidence for falcone and leverage on faden didnt he?)

Stop putting your opinion up on a pedestal - you're no better than Sandouras if you do. You're welcome to having one, but don't give it as fact - that's arrogant.

I know i come off strong at times.

 

[The Battousai]

No I won't stop anything, thank you very much. Your patronising tone is quite arrogant.

What did I say that was wrong? Gotham IS meant to be decrepid... It's a FACT.

And I said that Keaton was the best IMO. What more can i ****ing do!?

It's not what you're saying that I have a problem with - although saying that Nolan's Wayne isn't reminiscent of the comic version is quite a stretch - it's that you have a pretty poor attitude about it.

And I'm patronizing you - if I was, I wouldn't be talking to you with respect as an equal.

 

[Mr. Socko]

First of all... Gotham is not meant to be a nice place. In fact, it's meant to be a really really ****ty place. A place that's decaying and needs batman.

Secondly. Nolan isn't going to way of an altruistic philanthropic Wayne, he's chosen to go for a nitwit prick of a Wayne, and from the sides and other things I've read, Wayne doesn't really change much in the next one. Nolan got this wrong. Wayne is meant to be a nice guy.

Finally. whatever about the best Batman, Keaton was unquestionably the best Wayne, IMO. He most certainly wasn't a ****ty wayne.

Wayne is meant to be however the writer, artist, or director means to portray him. If you do not like this version of Bruce Wayne, that's perfectly fine, but saying Nolan got it wrong isn't going to sit well when it's just his version. He got it no more wrong than Tim Burton or Schumacher, I'd say Nolan's Wayne is closer to the comics than Burton's really.

As for opinions, I thought Keaton's Wayne was great, a very interesting take on the character but he was too engrossed and not enough of a public figure. Val Kilmer is my favorite Bruce Wayne despite not being a great Batman. I though Bale played his Wayne too arrogant but it's just as valid as Burton's or Schumacher's.

 

[Sandouras]

Wayne is meant to be however the writer, artist, or director means to portray him. If you do not like this version of Bruce Wayne, that's perfectly fine, but saying Nolan got it wrong isn't going to sit well when it's just his version. He got it no more wrong than Tim Burton or Schumacher, I'd say Nolan's Wayne is closer to the comics than Burton's really.

As for opinions, I thought Keaton's Wayne was great, a very interesting take on the character but he was too engrossed and not enough of a public figure. Val Kilmer is my favorite Bruce Wayne despite not being a great Batman. I though Bale played his Wayne too arrogant but it's just as valid as Burton's or Schumacher's.

I agree with you.
But what do you mean by that (in bold font)? Any scenes to refer me to? Yeah kilmer, although blond was good.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I agree with you.
But what do you mean by that (in bold font)? Any scenes to refer me to? Yeah kilmer, although blond was good.

Hehe, we were just discussing this yesterday in the Misc Batman films forum.t: Here's what I thought of all of the Wayne's except Clooney(I thought he was terrible in every way so no need to even mention him)
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=14133430#post14133430

Oh and I don't recall any blonde Bruce Waynes lol

 

[BatSpider]

Hehe, we were just discussing this yesterday in the Misc Batman films forum.t: Here's what I thought of all of the Wayne's except Clooney(I thought he was terrible in every way so no need to even mention him)
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=14133430#post14133430

Oh and I don't recall any blonde Bruce Waynes lol

Isnt Kilmer a blonde

 

[Mr. Socko]

what what what

He wasn't blonde in the movie, not that I recall

 

[Sandouras]

what what what

He wasn't blonde in the movie, not that I recall

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.y.../batman_forever/_group_photos/val_kilmer3.jpg

he was blond. Not that i mind about comic accuracy on that one, but black hair suits wayne more. He is dark, focused and assertive. He is batman damnit. Kilmer was good though. I liked him too!

 

[Mr. Socko]

Wow, how did I never notice that

I agree Wayne looks better with darker hair, Bale also had the better figure. I thought Kilmer was awesome but I shook my head when he took his shirt off

 

[Sandouras]

Ok socko i read it. I agree with what you say about kilmer's direction of bruce. It was nice.

For Bale, I think it all goes down to BB being a bit "in your face".
What did alfred say?
Date movie stars, drive sportscars and buy things that are not for sale. He kinda did all of them.
I believe Bale moves in between Year one and BTAS. He isnt a d*** yet (he is too young for that) but he ACTS as a spoiled richboy. Not so much as in year one though. I also think that he comes off as very confident. Look for example at his smirk when he says his name to Jessica knowing that he will stun her. Or at how he deals with big executives like Earl. He knows who he is and he isnt stammering.
But i sense that he has the qualities to be the philanthropist of BTAS. Maybe not so pronounced to the public but i think that he will show his good side. I actually expect to see him in the Wayne Ind board and with Friedrichs (remember him?) looking with respect at him (I really liked the way he looked at wayne with hope when bruce returned. And how he scolded him at the party. He cares about Bruce and Thoma's legacy -he was against arms manufacturing- and i hope to see more of him).
Finally, about throwing people away from his home, it was merely a way to protect them and his identity. Didnt like it, but you know he isnt a snob. That was extreme because the situation was extreme. Noone would have gone there otherwise.

But we will see. July 2008 we ll see where Nolan goes with bruce.

 

[MMoralN10Tion]

First of all... Gotham is not meant to be a nice place. In fact, it's meant to be a really really ****ty place. A place that's decaying and needs batman.

Secondly. Nolan isn't going to way of an altruistic philanthropic Wayne, he's chosen to go for a nitwit prick of a Wayne, and from the sides and other things I've read, Wayne doesn't really change much in the next one. Nolan got this wrong. Wayne is meant to be a nice guy.

Finally. whatever about the best Batman, Keaton was unquestionably the best Wayne, IMO. He most certainly wasn't a ****ty wayne.

Umm, where did you read Wayne was a nice guy? He clearly does nice things, but other than that what part of playboy billionare didn't you get? Clearly he chooses NOT to be obvious... Read some of the comics, like Year One and you'll clearly see that Bale based a lot of his character on that.

I understand you're a Burtan fan, but that doesn't mean everything Burton did is absolute...

 

[CaptainClown]

Actually Bruce Wayne and Batman have both come off as being a dick. The real jerk of the DC world. Which I am perfectly fine with.

 

[mcallima]

I have no problem with the dickish playboy. Being a dick and a philanthropist are not mutually exclusive. See Bill Gates for example.

 

[CaptainClown]

ya, he could do nice things; but he is still an *******

 

[Sandouras]

Actually Bruce Wayne and Batman have both come off as being a dick. The real jerk of the DC world. Which I am perfectly fine with.

I think that writers stretch that a bit. Batman is a recluse. He is obsessive. He is dark inside, works at night in a dark, sh***y city and dwells in a cave. Its only natural.


I mean, the dude buries a Robin every 10 years, how could he not be nuts?t:

I think that his d1ckery should advance along the years. Sure he never was the easy going type, but he will be more scarred when he is 40 than when he is 20. Fighting crime and living a life of darkness and tragedy can do tha to you over time. Miller started this trend with DKR when he introduced the d1ckery as a natural result of fighting crime at night and not having a normal life with normal relationships. But for a bruce at that age its only natural. Placing this on bruce when he is at his beggining like writers do nowadays is just bad.

But as i said, writers stretch it a lot. Its like: "imma gonna do a batman comic. I will make him a d1ck and paint him dark. And thats it!". And that gets worse when batman guest stars in another hero's comic or is part of the JL. This is where it gets bad. Each hero gets his one-dimensional role and character and especially batman. He gets to be the d1ck without reason. Just to show how great GL is in his books or whatever.

Finally and as i said before i love what Timm did in BTAS. He made Bruce a really assertive and powerful character, even on public. He would occasionally act scared or goofy to throw off suspicion but all in all he was a strong person. In the fourth season we really saw his d1ckery unfold and develop. It was a gradual process. But he was always the good guy. He gave the villains a second chance and always cared for them. Remember how much he cared about the Ventriloquist's or Harley's reformation? Even Dick Grayson after years of dispute and bitterness against bruce comes to realise that bruce has a good heart. All of these in the 4th season where the d1ckery spikes, but compassion still remains.
And of course Batman Beyond showed us a senile, lonely and reclusive Bruce as a result of a lifetime of obsessively fighting crime at night. And it was JL were he shined the most. There amongst gods we saw his worth and especially in the "epilogue" episode amanda waller says: "in my career as a goverment liaison with the JL i have met several interesting figures, but none was the equal of batman".

What i am getting at is that i think that the d1ckery aspect seems to have become the quintessential aspect of his character nowadays. Writers just do this and think that they hit the target and given us massive character insights. But when they do that, they only scratch the surface. BW is a deep and fascinating character.

 

[bunk]

This thread had some very interesting reading in the last few pages.

It's gone beyond mere batsuit discussion and become the go to thread for Batman theory discussion.

 

[Gianakin_]

and I think setting it in a pseudo-futuristic forties United States was a stroke of genius, as it made B89 timeless... (The artist formerly known as "the artist formerly known as prince" aside).

BB will date.

I don't know if BB will date, but B89 has absolutely dated big time for me. On the other hand, BR is still doing well.

 

[Sandouras]

I keep wondering what more tricks the new cape hides and what is going on with the gauntlet spikes. That first pic of the TDK suit has an interview where this production member was talking about it. He didnt spoil anything and although i am itching to know i hope that they leave the revelation for the movie. any ideas?

 

[The Guard]

I think it's funny that they never show the impact of Batman having armor after they went to lengths to explain it. I.E, he never got shot, stabbed, it's never mentioned again, etc.

I agree that while Batman may be moderately more realistic than other superheroes (especially in his methods), his world in the comics, is not.

I don't think Nolan's is all that realistic, either, really. I don't mind the explanations (except the stupid idea for The Tumbler.

Which character was diluted?

Ra's Al Ghul, for one.

I meant that Burton's Gotham was depressing. It was the same everywhere and it didnt have the contrasts of Nolan's to give some relief to the viewer. The lack of daylight and that disgusting manour didnt help either.

I didn't see anything overtly depressing about Gotham, other than the crime-ridden atmosphere and the political issues, which are supposed to be depressing. There was plenty of daylight.

Bruce just came back to gotham and just regained his company's control. Give it time. I like BTAS Wayne the most as well and i think that Nolan's is right on that track. In fact i think that BB suit imitated the BTAS look of batman a lot (huge upper body, big jaw and square, not round, head). Dont know if thats a coincidence.

I would like to believe that they will evolve him into the man who creates the Wayne Foundation, etc, and becomes a man who will honor his parents memories. I'd like to believe that.

Secondly. Nolan isn't going to way of an altruistic philanthropic Wayne, he's chosen to go for a nitwit prick of a Wayne, and from the sides and other things I've read, Wayne doesn't really change much in the next one. Nolan got this wrong. Wayne is meant to be a nice guy.

Nolan is presenting Wayne's "Fake Bruce" as a nitwit prick. Real Bruce is not like that. There is a difference. That's why there was the whole "It's not just your name...it's your father's...don't destroy it" thing going on in BEGINS.

Finally. whatever about the best Batman, Keaton was unquestionably the best Wayne, IMO. He most certainly wasn't a ****ty wayne.

Val Kilmer's Bruce Wayne in BATMAN FOREVER is the closest the films have come to an appropriate Bruce Wayne, and that's mainly due to the characterization. The movie had it all. An appropriately serious and mature playboy/celebrity, a capable, intelligent and compassionate master of industry and finance, and a caring friend and surrogate father figure. My favorite parts of BATMAN FOREVER involve Bruce.

Wayne is not meant to be a nice guy. He is meant to be an obsessive d***. Kinda like house. Read some comics and dont judge or act superior when your knowledge is limited to BTAS.

Don't judge BTAS when your knowledge of Bruce is limited to the last five years of comics. Bruce Wayne was never a "dick" before about 1990. For YEARS, he was a compassionate and very human person.

Some comics portray him as a drunk playboy (year one)

Where is he drunk in YEAR ONE? He has some champagne, that doesn't make him a drunk. This flies in the face of almost every characterization of Bruce Wayne that came before, and most that have come after.

some as a philanthropist businessman. Most of the time he acts out of character to throw off suspicion. In fact i think that BTAS was coming too strong and too righteous to avoid suspicion. He was focused and assertive. I loved him though. You also dont know where TDK takes him.

I see no reason why Bruce Wayne cannot be all of those things.

Furthermore, i didnt say that Gotham is meant to be a nice place. I am just saying that a viewer cant stand watching the narrows or Burton's asphyxiating gotham for 2 hours. Thats why we need some daylight and some nice coat. Its part of the fun that socko is talking about.

"Nice coat" wasn't fun. It was an attempt at fun, at the exact wrong moment.

Wow, how did I never notice that.

Because you probably didn't base your assessment of his hair on the one scene with light streaming through it, and watched the rest of the movie, where the lighting wasn't so harsh, and Bruce clearly had brown hair.

http://www.operagloves.com/vidcaps3/BatmanForever/nicolekidman-blackleatheroperas036.jpg

Blonde?

 

[GoogleMe94]

first blonde bond,now blonde bats.

 

[Sandouras]

Spoiler

I think it's funny that they never show the impact of Batman having armor after they went to lengths to explain it. I.E, he never got shot, stabbed, it's never mentioned again, etc.

I agree that while Batman may be moderately more realistic than other superheroes (especially in his methods), his world in the comics, is not.

I don't think Nolan's is all that realistic, either, really. I don't mind the explanations (except the stupid idea for The Tumbler.
Ra's Al Ghul, for one.
I didn't see anything overtly depressing about Gotham, other than the crime-ridden atmosphere and the political issues, which are supposed to be depressing. There was plenty of daylight.



I would like to believe that they will evolve him into the man who creates the Wayne Foundation, etc, and becomes a man who will honor his parents memories. I'd like to believe that.



Nolan is presenting Wayne's "Fake Bruce" as a nitwit prick. Real Bruce is not like that. There is a difference. That's why there was the whole "It's not just your name...it's your father's...don't destroy it" thing going on in BEGINS.



Val Kilmer's Bruce Wayne in BATMAN FOREVER is the closest the films have come to an appropriate Bruce Wayne, and that's mainly due to the characterization. The movie had it all. An appropriately serious and mature playboy/celebrity, a capable, intelligent and compassionate master of industry and finance, and a caring friend and surrogate father figure. My favorite parts of BATMAN FOREVER involve Bruce.



Don't judge BTAS when your knowledge of Bruce is limited to the last five years of comics. Bruce Wayne was never a "dick" before about 1990. For YEARS, he was a compassionate and very human person.



Where is he drunk in YEAR ONE? He has some champagne, that doesn't make him a drunk. This flies in the face of almost every characterization of Bruce Wayne that came before, and most that have come after.



I see no reason why Bruce Wayne cannot be all of those things.



"Nice coat" wasn't fun. It was an attempt at fun, at the exact wrong moment.



Because you probably didn't base your assessment of his hair on the one scene with light streaming through it, and watched the rest of the movie, where the lighting wasn't so harsh, and Bruce clearly had brown hair.

http://www.operagloves.com/vidcaps3/BatmanForever/nicolekidman-blackleatheroperas036.jpg

Blonde?

I am reading comics from all over the place. Not the latest. I have read all the classics including: The Killing joke, DKR, TLH, Year one/two/three, dark victory (sequel to TLH) and Knightfall/knightquest/bane-broke-ma-back-etc, Superman/Batman.

Could someone give me any newer comics titles for me to read? I want something contemporary but good and i also want it to have the contemporary view/insight on Bruce.

In year one he was acting as drunk (drinking in the morning. Its the best sign of alcoholism) when gordon paid him a visit cause he suspected him being batman.

"Nice coat" wasn't fun. It was an attempt at fun, at the exact wrong moment

It was the wrong moment indeed. But it was funny that batman gave that nod to the homeless... Ignore it and move on.

 

[The Guard]

He wasn't blonde in FOREVER, people. He had brown hair.

It was the wrong moment indeed. But it was funny to give that batman gave that nod to the homeless...

Why is that funny? When did "repeating something we did earlier" become funny or clever writing?

I am reading comics from all over the place. Not the latest. I have read all the classics including: The Killing joke, DKR, TLH, Year one/two/three, dark victory (sequel to TLH) and Knightfall/knightquest/bane-broke-ma-back-etc, Superman/Batman.

Could someone give me any newer comics titles for me to read? I want something contemporary but good and i also want it to have the contemporary view/insight on Bruce.

Track down BATMAN: WAR ON CRIME by Alex Ross and Paul Dini. Also see if you can get ahold of some of Devin Grayson's GOTHAM KNIGHTS run. She presents a very balanced (and honest) take on Bruce Wayne.

In year one he was acting as drunk (drinking in the morning. Its the best sign of alcoholism) when gordon paid him a visit cause he suspected him being batman.

Eh...