Best 3rd movie in a SH franchise?

[Jack O Lantern]

To me it doesn't really matter about the excuses, but more about actual character. I'm sorry, but all these sympathetic villains have been given reasons for being how they are... but they are still vilains, just like how MJ is still a ho even though she has reasons for being this way.

No, seriously, no. I'm so sick of people calling her a ho. Do you people live in a fantasy land where people don't wander or move between relationships quickly. She is still only a kid. Most people have lots of different relationships at that age..

Rubbish. He...

• blasted a cop from the sand truck with his big, silly hand
• he then turned huge and blasted the rest of the cops shooting at him
• he then blew down the street, flipping cars and such

There is a difference between stopping people stopping you and actually hurting people.

• jumped in an armoured van disregarding the lives of everyone on the road when taking control of it

You could say the same for Spidey when he was surfing behind it. Should Spidey catch himself as well.

• warned Spidey and then tried to give him a new hole
• left Spidey and the two in the front of the van to crash
• later he turned into the sandmonster and had a game of flatten the spider

1. Yes he warned Spidey and Spidey didn't listen
2. Yeah he left them and Spidey saved them. Was there any doubt that he wouldn't?
3. Yeah, so Spidey would stop stopping him from trying to save his daughter

Let's not forget that he is a theif. There are a lot of people out there with bad sh** in their lives, but they don't all rob banks. But I suppose I can forgive all of this because he isn't a bad person, he just has bad luck.

But that's you putting your beliefs on Spidey. It's wrong to dislike a character's decision just because you happen to disagree.

As for you defence over the butler revelation, I can't even be bothered to get into that. There are a lot of things I can say about it, but the easiest is to just admit to it being really bad writing.

Try to poke a hole

 

[T-CLIPSE]

Also, WHY did Jean kill Scott and Xavier again?

And this is once again an example of not paying attention to the movie, It's obvious that the Phoenix entity was out to remove any emotional ties that Jean Grey had, and remove any power level threats to her existence. By taking out Jean Grey's lover and Jean Grey's mentor (who is by the way the same mentor who suppressed her in Jeans mind in the first place) it only makes sense that the Phoenix entity would take out anyone who it felt was a danger to her continued existence...

..So therefore the Phoenix entity kills Scott because it knows that he is Jean's emotional "anchor" who might be able to pull Jean back....

..The Phoenix entity kills Xavier because he's the one who wants to suppress her....

..The Phoenix entity kills Scott and Xavier because she sees them as...

...THE TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE THE BIGGEST THREATS TO HER EXISTENCE...and guess what....

....THE PHOENIX WANTS TO LIVE.

Great day in the morning, are you guys sure you're watching the same movie as me, this stuff is not rocket science. Get past the fact that "that's not the way it is in the comics", which is why I think so many of you hate that movie so much, it's not because you think it's bad, you just think it's bad because you wanted EXACT comicbook accuracy.

In the context of that movie as a stand alone work..those events made perfect sense, whether it happened in the comic or not.

 

[Majik1387]

And this is once again an example of not paying attention to the movie, It's obvious that the Phoenix entity was out to remove any emotional ties that Jean Grey had, and remove any power level threats to her existence. By taking out Jean Grey's lover and Jean Grey's mentor (who is by the way the same mentor who suppressed her in Jeans mind in the first place) it only makes sense that the Phoenix entity would take out anyone who it felt was a danger to her continued existence...

..So therefore the Phoenix entity kills Scott because it knows that he is Jean's emotional "anchor" who might be able to pull Jean back....

..The Phoenix entity kills Xavier because he's the one who wants to suppress her....

..The Phoenix entity kills Scott and Xavier because she sees them as...

...THE TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE THE BIGGEST THREATS TO HER EXISTENCE...and guess what....

....THE PHOENIX WANTS TO LIVE.

Great day in the morning, are you guys sure you're watching the same movie as me, this stuff is not rocket science.

No, it's a failed science test mis-graded as passing.

Get past the fact that "that's not the way it is in the comics", which is why I think so many of you hate that movie so much, it's not because you think it's bad, you just think it's bad because you wanted EXACT comicbook accuracy.

While that may be true for some fans, the majority of us despised it because it did not live up to expectations, it was let down after let down. Everything overall sounded and looked good from early scripts all the way down to the trailers. Then the movie came out and ruined it all.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

While that may be true for some fans, the majority of us despised it because it did not live up to expectations,

What you mean is,...the majority of you dispised it is because it didn't live up to your comicbook expectations.

it was let down after let down.

Right I know it was a let down, by "let down" what you mean is.....

When Scott got killed it was a let down,....

When Xavier got killed it was a let down,...

When Rogue took the cure it was a let down,....

When Warren Worthington wasn't a millionaire playboy living in a penthouse it was a let down,..

When the Juggernaut wasn't Charles' brother it was a let down,...

When Juggernaut was a mutant and didn't get his powers from the Ruby Of Cyttorak it was a let down,...

Anything that didn't happen in the comics is what most everybody complains about when talking about X3. Just a bunch of comicbook purists who doesn't want the big bad evil movie writers and directors taking liberties with your beloved little story. I read all those stories too and of course they hold fond memories but really, in the business of telling movie stories you can't compress decades of stories into an hour and a half.

Everything overall sounded and looked good from early scripts all the way down to the trailers. Then the movie came out and ruined it all.

That sounds more like Spider-Man 3 than X3 to me.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

No, it's a failed science test mis-graded as passing.

And I just have to ask one question about this comment,.. does that comment mean that you're saying that the explanation that I gave about why Phoenix killed Scott and Xavier still doesn't make sense to you?

 

[The Sarge]

Double post

 

[The Sarge]

I have to agree that it wasn't out of character for Rogue to take the cure. Learning to use your powers means nothing when the fact is she can't touch people. Think about that for a second, because not being able to touch would suck. She couldn't even do anything with her boyfriend (and he apparently left her because of it too).
Learned to use her power or not, most people would accept the cure if their power was that much of a burden.

 

[Majik1387]

What you mean is,...the majority of you dispised it is because it didn't live up to your comicbook expectations.

Um no, read what I said. I said expectations from what was reported to be in the movie.

Right I know it was a let down, by "let down" what you mean is.....
When Scott got killed it was a let down,....
When Xavier got killed it was a let down,...
When Rogue took the cure it was a let down,....
When Warren Worthington wasn't a millionaire playboy living in a penthouse it was a let down,..
When the Juggernaut wasn't Charles' brother it was a let down,...
When Juggernaut was a mutant and didn't get his powers from the Ruby Of Cyttorak it was a let down,...

I agree with all but one of those, I didn't mind changing Juggernaut to a mutant. Regarding Angel, Ben Foster is a fantastic actor, but he was not right for Angel, and what he was given in the script was alright, except for the deus ex machina to save his father at the end. You seem to have forgotten the lack of depth for Psylocke; Hell, Jubilee had more depth than Psylocke. The lack of real Phoenix super power effects were a let down; The lack of anyone at the school regarding the death of Scott; I could go on and on. X-3 did have some good things(the musical score, Beast, Magneto's bridge scene) but it is totally enveloped in the rest of the crap movie.

Anything that didn't happen in the comics is what most everybody complains about when talking about X3. Just a bunch of comicbook purists who doesn't want the big bad evil movie writers and directors taking liberties with your beloved little story. I read all those stories too and of course they hold fond memories but really, in the business of telling movie stories you can't compress decades of stories into an hour and a half.

I'm no comic purest, and having an experience in the performing arts, I understand certain artistic liberties have to be taken. That's fine, but compared to the first two X-Movies, X3 just took a **** on what Bryan Singer and co established in the first two movies. And Fox is continuing to do so in the upcoming Wolverine.

That sounds more like Spider-Man 3 than X3 to me.

Probably because they suck equally.

And I just have to ask one question about this comment,.. does that comment mean that you're saying that the explanation that I gave about why Phoenix killed Scott and Xavier still doesn't make sense to you?

Oh it makes sense, but that doesn't make it correct.

 

[Obi-Ron]

I voted Batman Forever, for 2 reasons:

1. The line "Holey Rusted metal Batman!"

2. Nicole Kidman was smoking hot in that movie.

 

[Majik1387]

I voted Batman Forever, for 2 reasons:

1. The line "Holey Rusted metal Batman!"

2. Nicole Kidman was smoking hot in that movie.

It was between this and Blade Trinity for me, but I thought I'd show some love for Blade Trinity.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

You seem to have forgotten the lack of depth for Psylocke; Hell, Jubilee had more depth than Psylocke.

Wow you X-Men guys are the hardest people to please than any other comic franchise anywhere else. The X-Men have hundreds of characters in their universe and you guys scream and plead for those characters to be included in the films, you scream for Iceman you get him, you scream for Beast you get him, you scream for Colossus you get him, you scream for Kitty you get her, you scream for the Danger Room you get it...but no matter what those guys try to deliver you guys are just never satisfied,...

..you're talking about lack of depth for a character in a movie who has no direct envolvement with the central plot, or the sub-plots, yet you all somehow think that they should spend time fleshing out her depth as if the movie is about her or something.

That's going to be the same thing when this Wolverine movie hits, all those X-Men so called fans have been jumping up and down about Gambit and Deadpool since forever and you're finally going to get them, but as sure as the sky is blue those same so called fans will be jumping up and down talking about "That's not the way Deadpool talks", That's not the way Gambit walks" "Deadpool didn't have enough depth", "Gambit wasn't on screen for but 10 minutes" and on, and on, and on about Gambit and Deadpool as if the movie is called Gambit and Deadpool and not Wolverine.

Oh it makes sense, but that doesn't make it correct.

So just out of curiosity, if I'm wrong...why do you think Phoenix killed them?

 

[The Major]

Spider-man 3.

 

[Majik1387]

Wow you X-Men guys are the hardest people to please than any other comic franchise anywhere else. The X-Men have hundreds of characters in their universe and you guys scream and plead for those characters to be included in the films, you scream for Iceman you get him, you scream for Beast you get him, you scream for Colossus you get him, you scream for Kitty you get her, you scream for the Danger Room you get it...but no matter what those guys try to deliver you guys are just never satisfied,...

I'm not one of those kind of fans, so don't generalize me. Do I wish to see some characters? Of course. As you said there's hundreds of characters in the X-Universe, it's only natural I would want to see certain characters. But where the problem lies is the delivery which is on the blame of the studios. I'm not looking for exact replicas of settings or people from the comics, but I do expect a recognizable aspect and characters to act like themselves in a believable manner.

..you're talking about lack of depth for a character in a movie who has no direct envolvement with the central plot, or the sub-plots, yet you all somehow think that they should spend time fleshing out her depth as if the movie is about her or something.

Apparently X3 decided that Magneto would send these 3 mutants(Psylocke, Kid Omega and Arclight) after Warren Sr. and Dr. Rao, you know the creators of the cure, at Alcatraz. I'd say that's part of the plot, even if their roles were minor, hell they were supposed to be Callisto's henchmen; the sub-plot of this movie is the Dark Phoenix story which I agree they had no part in, though she kills them at the end.

That's going to be the same thing when this Wolverine movie hits, all those X-Men so called fans have been jumping up and down about Gambit and Deadpool since forever and you're finally going to get them, but as sure as the sky is blue those same so called fans will be jumping up and down talking about "That's not the way Deadpool talks", That's not the way Gambit walks" "Deadpool didn't have enough depth", "Gambit wasn't on screen for but 10 minutes" and on, and on, and on about Gambit and Deadpool as if the movie is called Gambit and Deadpool and not Wolverine

And if you looked over at the Wolverine boards, you would have seen no one seriously had hope for Wolverine's movie after the travesty that was X3. And after seeing the trailer, only the opinions on Gambit and maybe Sabretooth had changed. You want a laugh, go to the Deadpool thread. Wolverine will suck just as much if not more than X3.

So just out of curiosity, if I'm wrong...why do you think Phoenix killed them?

It doesn't matter what I think, we'll end up agreeing to disagree because the writers of X3 were told they had to kill off the characters. That was actually a requirement for them, which is why any reasoning that anyone tries to give behind it is stupid to me.

 

[Obi-Ron]

no matter what those guys try to deliver you guys are just never satisfied,...

I can tell you're new here. Welcome to the Hype.

 

[kedrell]

I voted Batman Forever, for 2 reasons:

1. The line "Holey Rusted metal Batman!"

2. Nicole Kidman was smoking hot in that movie.

I agree with this statement. She was on fire in that movie.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

I can tell you're new here. Welcome to the Hype.

Thanks for the welcome, and yeah I've just recently started posting here, I spent a lot of time on Marvel and DC boards and figured I'd see how things are viewed over here where there might be less Marvel or DC bias, but it all sounds the same here as over there....unfortunately.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I agree with this statement. She was on fire in that movie.

I find her annoying in pretty much everything. And her character was so damn ditzy.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

And this is once again an example of not paying attention to the movie, It's obvious that the Phoenix entity was out to remove any emotional ties that Jean Grey had, and remove any power level threats to her existence. By taking out Jean Grey's lover and Jean Grey's mentor (who is by the way the same mentor who suppressed her in Jeans mind in the first place) it only makes sense that the Phoenix entity would take out anyone who it felt was a danger to her continued existence...

..So therefore the Phoenix entity kills Scott because it knows that he is Jean's emotional "anchor" who might be able to pull Jean back....

..The Phoenix entity kills Xavier because he's the one who wants to suppress her....

..The Phoenix entity kills Scott and Xavier because she sees them as...

...THE TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE THE BIGGEST THREATS TO HER EXISTENCE...and guess what....

....THE PHOENIX WANTS TO LIVE.

Well, i'm just going to blow all of this out of the water, WHY didnt she kill Wolverine also? He was also a big threat to The Pheonix Entity, and she had more than enough times to kill him but didnt, so your theory is, i'm afraid, ********, who was paying attention now?

Great day in the morning, are you guys sure you're watching the same movie as me, this stuff is not rocket science. Get past the fact that "that's not the way it is in the comics", which is why I think so many of you hate that movie so much, it's not because you think it's bad, you just think it's bad because you wanted EXACT comicbook accuracy.

In the context of that movie as a stand alone work..those events made perfect sense, whether it happened in the comic or not.

I love faithfulness, but i'm not a slave to it, changes in comic-book movies are necessary sometimes, its whether those changes are necessary and whether they work, NON of the changes in X3 were necessary or worked IMO, killing Scott and having Wolverine be Jean's saviour, was completely unnecessary, it was a change made to give the headlining actor more scene's, and sorry, but i'm just not going to accept that.

 

[Obi-Ron]

I am going with Superman Returns based on the fact it is the sequel to Superman I and II. So technically speaking it is the third movie of the series.

That's a stretch. I'd call it either the fifth mivie in the old series or (I hope not) the first in a new series.

 

[DX]

I still think the hate SM3 gets is rediculous. I really don't think it is a bad movie, especially considering the circumstances it had to endure during its making.

Totally agreed, it is hugely flawed, but the good outweighs the bad so much its ridiculous. Some people claiming it as one of the worst movies ever are just a joke.

Yes and Yes. SM3 gets my vote.

Also, Batman Forever is a guilty pleasure of mine.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

Well, i'm just going to blow all of this out of the water, WHY didnt she kill Wolverine also?

Man you're not paying attention, The Phoenix entity did try to kill Wolverine but it failed,... did you see the scene where it had him on the lab table and tried to seduce him?...it was trying to kill him,..but Wolverine was too strong and was able to stop it's advances.

I love faithfulness, but i'm not a slave to it, changes in comic-book movies are necessary sometimes, its whether those changes are necessary and whether they work, NON of the changes in X3 were necessary or worked IMO, killing Scott and having Wolverine be Jean's saviour, was completely unnecessary, it was a change made to give the headlining actor more scene's, and sorry, but i'm just not going to accept that.

That's fine...you don't have to accept it...but at the least, at the very least...... admit that it does make sense.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Man you're not paying attention, The Phoenix entity did try to kill Wolverine but it failed,... did you see the scene where it had him on the lab table and tried to seduce him?...it was trying to kill him,..but Wolverine was too strong and was able to stop it's advances.

How did she try to kill Wolverine by seducing him please? She could have just demolecurised like she did to everyone else, but she just blew him against a wall, despite knowing about his healing factor. She had the power to kill him easily, but she didnt, even though he was a threat. Seducing is not killing, your the one not paying attention my friend.

hat's fine...you don't have to accept it...but at the least, at the very least...... admit that it does make sense.

It doesnt make sense at all, MM giving up his freedom about a day after he got it for someone he barely knows doesnt make sense, and it isnt what I saw in the movie at all, I think these are just your own assumptions.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

How did she try to kill Wolverine by seducing him please?

The same way it killed your boy Scott.....seduction.... temptation....and love.

It doesnt make sense at all, MM giving up his freedom about a day after he got it for someone he barely knows doesnt make sense, and it isnt what I saw in the movie at all, I think these are just your own assumptions.

No they aren't assumptions,... the writers and the director told me so, and unlike you they didn't have to spell it out for me word for word in order for me to understand.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The same way it killed your boy Scott.....seduction....and temptation....and love.

So why didnt she just blow Logan away completely like she did to Scott, she could have demolecurised Logan, and didnt, so your explanation/excuse, simply doesnt fly.

No they aren't assumptions,... the writers and the director told me so, and unlike you they didn't have to spell it out for me word for word in order for me to understand.

I dont need anything spelling out, but the movie was so poorly directed and written it was hard to work out what was going on. Well directed and written movies I have no problem understanding.

 

[T-CLIPSE]

So why didnt she just blow Logan away completely like she did to Scott,

Man,.. it didn't just blow Scott away,... it seduced him,... it deceived Scott into thinking that it was Jean ....it tried (and succeeded) into tapping into Scott's one weakness,... his love for Jean, and it got him,...hook line and sinker.

I don't need anything spelling out, but the movie was so poorly directed and written it was hard to work out what was going on.

If that's your problem with X3...then Spider-Man 3 must have been a nightmare for you...because Spider-Man 3...was a hundred times more poorly written and poorly directed than X3.

...and that's the whole thrust of my argument...Spider-Man 3 is CLEARLY the worst of those two movies,.. X3 while not faithful to the comic is still a good movie,.... Spider-Man 3 was not even faithful to itself as a movie...and therefore the worst of the two.