Best Punisher movie so far?

[I_am_iron_man]

And so...?

It's clear that:

Dolph Lundgren - Early Punisher, incarnation of the 80's Punisher
Tom Jane - Incarnation of Marvel Knight's Punisher
Ray Stevenson - Incarnation of Max's Punisher

They are all three different, naturally. But I can say Stevenson is the best.

 

[Fresh Prince]

They couldn't even get a budget good enough to set the previous movies in the '70s.



Central Park is really just a backdrop though, I think his origin is more than that. To me it's partly two things; 1. The failure of the justice system, because that's really what drove him to become a vigilante, when he realized the system was broken and wasn't going to do anything to help him and 2. One man's reaction to a horrible tragedy.

They tried to have P04 in 70s atmosphere?

 

[S. Grundy]

And so...?

It's clear that:

Dolph Lundgren - Early Punisher, incarnation of the 80's Punisher
Tom Jane - Incarnation of Marvel Knight's Punisher
Ray Stevenson - Incarnation of Max's Punisher

They are all three different, naturally. But I can say Stevenson is the best.

That was more about showing Castle wasn't/isn't always drawn to look like a tank.

They tried to have P04 in 70s atmosphere?

That's very true.

 

[Carlo Comicus]

And so...?


But I can say Stevenson is the best.

 

[Kable24]

And so...?

It's clear that:

Dolph Lundgren - Early Punisher, incarnation of the 80's Punisher
Tom Jane - Incarnation of Marvel Knight's Punisher
Ray Stevenson - Incarnation of Max's Punisher

They are all three different, naturally. But I can say Stevenson is the best.

Wow, something I've been saying for a looooooong time. Now the Stevenson part is all a matter of opinion.

 

[co2]

And so...?

It's clear that:

Dolph Lundgren - Early Punisher, incarnation of the 80's Punisher
Tom Jane - Incarnation of Marvel Knight's Punisher
Ray Stevenson - Incarnation of Max's Punisher

They are all three different, naturally. But I can say Stevenson is the best.

I agree with that assessment. Though not having a skull shirt on Dolph really deducts some points from an already bad movie.

I don't have a problem with any of the actors who have represented the Frank of their time. The problems with all of those movies fall in some eles' laps.

I think perhaps Jane was the least suited to play Frank, but he worked really hard, and the movie he was in is the best of the three by a mile...which isn't to say it didn't have issues itself, just much less than the other two.

 

[Fresh Prince]

That was more about showing Castle wasn't/isn't always drawn to look like a tank.



That's very true.

I think that would of been awesome...But 80s is better...Thats when the crime wave started in Florida, mainly Miami....Should of had Miami in P04.

 

[S. Grundy]

I think that would of been awesome...But 80s is better...Thats when the crime wave started in Florida, mainly Miami....Should of had Miami in P04.

Well, if they had the budget, it probably would have been set in "New York".

 

[Punisher Rising]

I got done reading The Slavers from the Max series, I can't stress enough how this story is perfect to be the basis for the next Punisher film if it ever gets made. Dark, disturbing and gritty as they come, and Frank has one of his best portrayals in it. Every word of his and every frame of him just oozes anger the way he feels it to the point where you feel it with him towards the villains of this story. A dark storyline like this is what The Punisher needs for his next film if it's to be.

While I like Stevenson a lot as The Punisher and don't mind at all if he returns as Frank, I think Jane overall was the best and I can see him doing this story greatly. His voice is what I hear whenever I read a Punisher comic and the last scene of Issue 5 was a pure Jane Punisher moment. This story would be a great cinematic comeback for not only The Punisher but also Jane back in the role, playing him even more cruelly and towards villains who truly deserve it and have it coming.

 

[S. Grundy]

I got done reading The Slavers from the Max series, I can't stress enough how this story is perfect to be the basis for the next Punisher film if it ever gets made. Dark, disturbing and gritty as they come, and Frank has one of his best portrayals in it. Every word of his and every frame of him just oozes anger the way he feels it to the point where you feel it with him towards the villains of this story. A dark storyline like this is what The Punisher needs for his next film if it's to be.

While I like Stevenson a lot as The Punisher and don't mind at all if he returns as Frank, I think Jane overall was the best and I can see him doing this story greatly. His voice is what I hear whenever I read a Punisher comic and the last scene of Issue 5 was a pure Jane Punisher moment. This story would be a great cinematic comeback for not only The Punisher but also Jane back in the role, playing him even more cruelly and towards villains who truly deserve it and have it coming.

They pretty much blew the villain load in PWZ having the Bulats and Maginity in it for no real reason. I know they're just names, but it was pointless.

But if Marvel decides to ignore PWZ and bring Jane back into the fold, Slavers is definitely something that should be adapted. Thank God they didn't do Slavers for PWZ, can you picture Slavers as done by Lexi Alexander? Women being sold into sex slavery, it's a COMIC BOOOOK! and wackiness ensues.

 

[Punisher Rising]

I like PWZ, but that was pretty annoying how they pretty much destroyed the characters of the Bulats and Maginity, as well as Nicky and Pittsy. Proper movies based on In The Beginning, Up Is Down And Black Is White, Kitchen Irish and The Slavers definitely can't be done without them. Although it is interesting to note how PWZ seemingly combined aspects of ITB, KI and UISABIW into one storyline with major changes to all three, and how aspects of Nicky were in Billy/Jigsaw.

I've been reading all of Ennis' run on the Max series lately, definitely the best storytelling out there for this character. I know Jane can do a Max-style Punisher justice and make him a standout character in films. Am I the only one who finds the 2004 film, despite borrowing heavily from Welcome Back, Frank and being before the Max series, to be closer to Max than PWZ was in terms of tone and mood? A lot of it had the same dark and somber mood many of the Max stories tend to have, whereas PWZ has a very comical and pulpish vibe to it and has the Max Punisher thrown in it. Not a bad thing IMO, but quite a departure from the actual Max comics, especially considering PWZ is based off of the Max series. In terms of Frank's portrayal and characterization, and the violence level, it certainly is, but in terms of mood and tone, it definitely feels far different, IMO.

 

[Nivek]

They pretty much blew the villain load in PWZ having the Bulats and Maginity in it for no real reason. I know they're just names, but it was pointless.

But if Marvel decides to ignore PWZ and bring Jane back into the fold, Slavers is definitely something that should be adapted. Thank God they didn't do Slavers for PWZ, can you picture Slavers as done by Lexi Alexander? Women being sold into sex slavery, it's a COMIC BOOOOK! and wackiness ensues.

The Slavers is one of the best recent Punisher stories out there. I'm glad she didn't go near it, considering how off the mark she was in PWZ.

 

[Nivek]

Ray was the best of the actors 3,,

but the over the top villians ruined the movie PWZ.

Then Lexi ruined the rest,, If they used Sutter from sons of anarchy and The shield TV series have full control this movie would have gotten rid of the villians cheesy ball acting.

but they didn't and Sutter left.

When was Sutter involved in this?

 

[S. Grundy]

When was Sutter involved in this?

He wrote the last script before Jane left. From their they decided to go back to an earlier rejected draft, which Alexander rewrote and became PWZ.

 

[I_am_iron_man]

But if Marvel decides to ignore PWZ and bring Jane back into the fold,

Dear God no!

I hope that they don't produce another Punisher movie. In 5-6 years from now they must reboot another time and for the last time the series. In the right ways (not Jane's movie, not Stevenson's movie).

 

[UnionJack]

a reboot of a reboot of a reboot!?

 

[Stripesy Strip]

What you don't seem to understand is the fact that idea of Frank Castle being a mountain of a man depends on WHO IS DRAWING HIM! He is NOT ALWAYS drawn like he's a tank of a man. Jane looks like the Ross Andru Punisher as much as Stevenson looks like the Lewis Larosa Punisher.

Tom Jane's Castle NOT a tough guy? He's an undercover FBI agent and former Delta Force soldier. Maybe you didn't see the director's cut opening scene where he single handedly apprehends two middle eastern terrorists with a shotgun? Maybe you missed the entire movie when it shows what a badass the guy is? What a brilliant tactition he is? Where it shows how he knows what he's doing and how natural it is?

And again, maybe you missed the Year One comic where it shows Castle, after his family's death on the verge of mental breakdown and suicide? Not very intimidating.

Well there are different ways to draw a character. But there are certain aspects that stays with a character that adds to the mythos. Like Steve Rogers/Captain America is remembered certain way(athletlic), Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards(thin,a good-looking nerd) is a certain way, et...And to the overall scheme of things Frank Castle is a big man. That's how he's viewed and i've always read about him when he was a big man. That's actually something i've liked about him: He's a beast. He's an intimidating presence. He's not just a man that is possessed since anybody can be that. I think MK Punisher and MAX Punisher and John Romita Jr's Warzone he was like that too. And Jim Lee's Punisher was not an average-size man too.

 

[claydogg]

He wrote the last script before Jane left. From their they decided to go back to an earlier rejected draft, which Alexander rewrote and became PWZ.

yep I really wish sutter had the total control of everything the movie would have been so much better.

all of his villians on "sons of anarchy" and "the shield" are dark,,
I guess the only thing left from his script in PWZ was how jigsaw fell in the bottle recycle machine.


here is kurt talking about how he wanted the punisher to be.

My pitch, my vision, for the Punisher franchise was something much different. I tried to rip Frank Castle from the comic book world and place him in the real streets of NYC. Castle is the only superhero without powers. He’s a tortured, highly skilled soldier with a really bad anger problem. I always felt we should see Frank in some place uber-real and gritty. I threw away the first draft written by Nick Santora and did a page one rewrite. I changed the locations, the characters, the story. I dropped Frank in a real New York City with real villians, real cops, real relationships. To me, the Punisher deserved more than the usual comic book redress. It shouldn’t just follow the feature superhero formula. Apparently, I was the only one who shared that vision.”​

Read more: Screenwriter Kurt Sutter Takes Name Off Punisher: War Zone, Cites Difference in Vision | /Film http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/02/15/screenwriter-takes-name-off-punisher-war-zone-cites-difference-in-vision/#ixzz0Xa18uLPo​

yeah its too bad lexi had some great stunts in PWZ,, but the over the top Jigsaw, magnity, and looney bin jim.
would have never been that cheesey,, if sutter was director.​

 

[Punisher Rising]

Having finished re-reading the entire Ennis run on the Max series, I would love to see so many of these stories adapted for films. The Slavers would be absolutely perfect for the next Punisher film, dark and disturbing as Hell with a Frank that's as relentless as he is caring in it. It'd be a great comeback onscreen for Frank and especially Jane if he reprised the role. Jane's got the attitue and broodiness to do a Max-style Punisher justice, and there's shades of it in the 2004 film.

 

[Nivek]

yep I really wish sutter had the total control of everything the movie would have been so much better.

all of his villians on "sons of anarchy" and "the shield" are dark,,
I guess the only thing left from his script in PWZ was how jigsaw fell in the bottle recycle machine.


here is kurt talking about how he wanted the punisher to be.

My pitch, my vision, for the Punisher franchise was something much different. I tried to rip Frank Castle from the comic book world and place him in the real streets of NYC. Castle is the only superhero without powers. He’s a tortured, highly skilled soldier with a really bad anger problem. I always felt we should see Frank in some place uber-real and gritty. I threw away the first draft written by Nick Santora and did a page one rewrite. I changed the locations, the characters, the story. I dropped Frank in a real New York City with real villians, real cops, real relationships. To me, the Punisher deserved more than the usual comic book redress. It shouldn’t just follow the feature superhero formula. Apparently, I was the only one who shared that vision.”​

Read more: Screenwriter Kurt Sutter Takes Name Off Punisher: War Zone, Cites Difference in Vision | /Film http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/02/15/screenwriter-takes-name-off-punisher-war-zone-cites-difference-in-vision/#ixzz0Xa18uLPo​

yeah its too bad lexi had some great stunts in PWZ,, but the over the top Jigsaw, magnity, and looney bin jim.
would have never been that cheesey,, if sutter was director.​

Dammit, this really pi$$es me off! Anyone know where I can read his treatment?

 

[Fresh Prince]

Sutter should be director of the reboot....He knows the Punisher!

 

[CrimsonMist]

Well there are different ways to draw a character. But there are certain aspects that stays with a character that adds to the mythos. Like Steve Rogers/Captain America is remembered certain way(athletlic), Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards(thin,a good-looking nerd) is a certain way, et...And to the overall scheme of things Frank Castle is a big man. That's how he's viewed and i've always read about him when he was a big man. That's actually something i've liked about him: He's a beast. He's an intimidating presence. He's not just a man that is possessed since anybody can be that. I think MK Punisher and MAX Punisher and John Romita Jr's Warzone he was like that too. And Jim Lee's Punisher was not an average-size man too.

I think you may have misinterpreted what i said. What i meant was that the Punisher is never ALWAYS drawn to look like a tank, like a huge, muscular guy. He's ALWAYS been an intimidating tough guy with a presence, but since his creation he's been a solidly built guy or a hulking monster of a guy. His bulk has always been different, but he's always remained the intimidating presence. My post was in response to those who think that the Punisher has to be this huge muscle bound monster, when in fact he doesn't and alot of the time has never been portrayed as being so.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Sutter should be director of the reboot....He knows the Punisher!

Actually, i just got done watching Tom Jane's directorial debut "Dark Country" and i must say it was pretty damn solid. With the exception of his leading lady(Lauren German who was ****ING HORRIBLE!!! ), it was tightly directed with great camera work that reminded alot like the French Connection and other late 60's/early 70's crime movies(and it had a pretty cool car chase, too). The story was damn good, though slightly convoluted towards the end. But the film only proves that Jane is a competent director and a damn good one at that. It only gets better from there. I'm not sure he could handle a 60 or 70 million dollar budget just yet, but if it came down to it, i'd love to see Jane direct and star in a new Punisher film. The man apparently knows what he wants and he's more than capable of achieving it. I'd let the man have a shot at it.

 

[Punisher Rising]

I haven't seen Dark Country, but if Jane did a good job directing, he's as good a directing choice as any to direct a Punisher film. For him to direct and star in it would be great, and especially if he has a lot of creative control over it and works with Ennis on the writing.

 

[S. Grundy]

It is a pretty damn good and solid film. If like The Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits, you should dig it.