Best Punisher movie so far?

[Punisher Rising]

I love both TTZ and TOL, so I'll definitely give this a look.

 

[Reflex]

The Thomas Jane Punisher was enjoyable but I was really put off by the slapstick fight between him and that lame giant of a villain. It broke up the whole tone of the film in my opinion. It still had one of the coolest shots ever though, right at the end as he's making his way into Travolta's pad. Enters the shot, drops down, draws back on his bow and takes out a guard. Just a brilliant shot.

War Zone is not even worth talking about. It took cheese to a new level. I like Stevenson but this was beneath him. Bad acting, bad story, just plain bad.

 

[Kable24]

I have Dark Country at home right now. I'm looking forward to watching it.

 

[Fresh Prince]

They need to make a new Punisher video game.

 

[S. Grundy]

Well, they made The Punisher: No Mercy, but that game was kinda crappy. I'm still surprised a sequel to the 2005 game hasn't been made, considering how good it sold.

 

[Punisher Rising]

I love the 2005 game, wish it'd get a sequel. It'd be great to have it based off of Ennis' run on the Max series, with Frank up against Finn Cooley, the Bulats and their slave-trading operation, Barracuda, etc. maybe even the original Billy Russo Jigsaw (I was always a bit bugged that the game had John Saint as Jigsaw, even though it was a pretty clever way to tie into the 2004 film).

I've had a Punisher binge of sorts over the past week or so, having replayed the 2005 game all the way through, read all of Ennis' run on the Max series (from The Tyger to The End) and rewatched all three films. While I find all three films to be enjoyable, I still enjoy the 2004 one the most. Even with the slight alterations to Frank's backstory, I really liked it and to be honest I actually prefer the 2004 film's origin for Frank over the comic. I liked how it upped the ante with Frank losing his entire family and trying to fight back against their killers before being taken down himself, and also loved the origin for the skull which gave it more importance and personal meaning. It's also well-paced, well-made and feels the most rewarding and satisfying of the three for me, and despite having somewhat small action, all of the action scenes after the Castle Family massacre have a good sense of payoff to them that the other two films never managed to have for me. I also really liked that it was a deeply personal story for Frank and how throughout the film we see Frank evolve through each act. Act 1 is Frank Castle, Act 2 is Frank evolving into The Punisher, and by Act 3 the transformation is completed and he is The Punisher. I still feel Thomas Jane is the best overall Punisher, with a good look for the character, the best costume and the best voice, and he felt the most rounded, balanced and tactical of the three and he was by far the most brooding and emotion-driven. He really nailed a lot of key aspects of the character down and he held the film together. The 2004 movie, even though it existed shortly before the Max series took off, feels closer in tone and spirit to the Max series than PWZ did. It has a similar dark and somber mood that many of the Max stories had (with a healthy dosage of dark humor now and then, much like the Max stories as well), feels very personal and isn't necessarily a feel-good story like the other two films were. In a lot of the Max stories, Frank is depicted as an honorable vigilante, but in some ways he's no better than the criminals he kills. The 2004 film best reflected that, IMO. It definitely has the best villains as well, with Glass and Livia, and why John Travolta is derided for being over-the-top and hammy, I have no idea, he never once struck me as that in this film and I thought he made for a good villain.

I enjoy the 1989 film and PWZ as well. The 1989 movie felt the closest to the Max series despite existing long before that series did and the storyline is right at home in that series. It also had the best action scenes by far of the three IMO, all practical and all were brutal and to the point. Dolph Lundgren wasn't even bad as Frank, his mechanical acting worked for this portrayal of Frank as an emotionally drained and numb man who only existed to hunt criminals. The villains were also loathesome and exactly the kinds of villains Frank should go after, and the best scene IMO was the end where he tells Franco's son to grow up to be a good man or else he'd come for him if he went down the same path as his father. PWZ is a fun movie and Ray Stevenson is up there with Jane for me as Frank, but the movie just kind of lacked the depth and substance that made the 2004 film compelling for me. They got Frank down about perfect (especially the Max version), but they botched some of the other characters (Maginty and the Bulats) and it's a shame Micro is so seldomly in this film because Wayne Knight did a great job for the brief screentime he had. Jigsaw was a fun villain in this movie, sure he's as OTT and comical as they come but he worked for this movie and even bled some menace in some moments, not making him a complete caricature.

I feel the definitive Punisher film has yet to be made, but for me, the 2004 one is the closest there is so far (and especially the extended cut).

 

[Fresh Prince]

Yeah a game fully base on the max series taking place in the 70s would be awesome...Game have a dark, grity, noir feel mixed with GTA.

 

[Iron_Stark]

I cringed every time Jigasaw and his brother we on screen. They were just too over the top.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Like watching Batman Forever all over again.

 

[Denny67]

None have been all that good but the Thomas Jane has been the best so far. The Punisher has to be the least difficult comic movie to make and nobody can seem to get it right.

Pretty sad.

 

[S. Grundy]

None have been all that good but the Thomas Jane has been the best so far. The Punisher has to be the least difficult comic movie to make and nobody can seem to get it right.

Pretty sad.

Yeah, it's like Jane said:

"Everyone gets it backwards," he said. "The 'Punisher' comic is striving for a sense of reality. They’re not striving for a sense of 'comic book.' So in the film, you can actually take the reality element further—not the comic book element. You don’t want to strengthen the idea that it’s a comic book in film, because film gives you the chance to actually bring it one step closer to reality—and that's the direction that 'Punisher' wants to go in."

For some reason studio's just want to put goofy **** into Punisher movies.

 

[Fresh Prince]

^ The goofy **** needs to end man!

 

[S. Grundy]

Like I've mentioned before, I think this one shot sums up the character better than the whole of Punisher: War Zone.

 

[Punisher Rising]

^ -

 

[I_am_iron_man]

Like I've mentioned before, I think this one shot sums up the character better than the whole of Punisher: War Zone.

Nah, if the actor was Stevenson that scene was perfect!

You know. In my school, where we learn to write comics t:, we've talked about Punisher's movies. Well, 2004's Punisher is wrong for one thing: Tom Jane.

If Dolph Lundgren knock to my door and - watching in my eyes - said "I'll kill you", i totally **** in my pants.

If Stevenson knock to my door and - watching in my eyes - said "I'll kill you", i totally **** in my pants.

If Jane knock to my door and - watching in my eyes - said "I'll Kill you", i start to laugh.

Me and my friends are totally agree. He's a good actor but a bad Punisher. He hasn't that physique du role, that "Punisher" face. He has an angel face. Too wrong for Castle.

 

[[A]]

I don't know what is going on in there -- is he shooting? what?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I think Jane looks pretty bad ass there, actually.

The problem with Punisher, the reason why I think they have tried to do different stuff with it ie make it comedically violent, is simple.

Punisher is unique in the comics. But the fact is, he is a walking talking hollywood cliche. How many films have we seen where a cop/soldier/whatever has his family or friend killed and goes on a one man revenge mission? That whole thing is played out in the movies.

Punisher is one of a kind in the comics. But he's dime a dozen in the movie world.

And I honestly don't know what they can do to change that.

 

[S. Grundy]

I don't know what is going on in there -- is he shooting? what?

Yeah, there is a wounded man on the floor and as Castle walks by he shoots him without looking or caring.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I don't know what is going on in there -- is he shooting? what?

He's giving a mercy shot to a dude he injured in the champagne bottle explosion.

And yes, that is the quintessential Punisher scene.

 

[Reflex]

Nah, if the actor was Stevenson that scene was perfect!

You know. In my school, where we learn to write comics t:, we've talked about Punisher's movies. Well, 2004's Punisher is wrong for one thing: Tom Jane.

If Dolph Lundgren knock to my door and - watching in my eyes - said "I'll kill you", i totally **** in my pants.

If Stevenson knock to my door and - watching in my eyes - said "I'll kill you", i totally **** in my pants.

If Jane knock to my door and - watching in my eyes - said "I'll Kill you", i start to laugh.

Me and my friends are totally agree. He's a good actor but a bad Punisher. He hasn't that physique du role, that "Punisher" face. He has an angel face. Too wrong for Castle.

This post comes across as quite childish no offence. Saying that Punisher is best when it's a big guy acting like a big thuggish brute is immature. Castle is after all a Marine (even though Jane's Punisher was said to be a SEAL which is wrong), must be believable as a Marine and fit in with that world and ours. Thomas Jane better exemplifies this and I applaud his decision to walk away from War Zone. Why stay on if they are just going to make a crappy film?

Lundgren is an old-time action star for old cheesy movies, Stevenson is a good actor but War Zone was crap of the grandest sort. If they aren't going to do the character justice, don't make more. After War Zone I think they should scrap the franchise.

 

[CrimsonMist]

I think Jane looks pretty bad ass there, actually.

The problem with Punisher, the reason why I think they have tried to do different stuff with it ie make it comedically violent, is simple.

Punisher is unique in the comics. But the fact is, he is a walking talking hollywood cliche. How many films have we seen where a cop/soldier/whatever has his family or friend killed and goes on a one man revenge mission? That whole thing is played out in the movies.

Punisher is one of a kind in the comics. But he's dime a dozen in the movie world.

And I honestly don't know what they can do to change that.

I agree with you. He is, cinematically, a walking cliche. But here's the thing, atleast with the 2004 film. He's a walking cliche that warrented a sequel. That was huge. It's a step forward and an opportunity to NOT repeat the same damn thing again and again like the Death Wish movies. And the Punisher has enough source material under Ennis's run on the character to tell a story that doesn't involve "You killed my family, I kill you" theme. It allowed the filmmakers to explore the morality of the character, to show the workings of someone like him, to show how the world reacts to his actions. It gave filmmakers the opportunity to show that he's more than just a revenge seeking psycho path. Instead, it was opted they make a real ****** action movie, and employing only the surface levels of those themes I spoke of, resulting in a laughably bad film all around.

Jane had the right idea for the sequel. Lexi Alexander and all involved didn't.

 

[Reflex]

Could not have said it better myself, agree 100%.

 

[Punisher Rising]

I agree with you. He is, cinematically, a walking cliche. But here's the thing, atleast with the 2004 film. He's a walking cliche that warrented a sequel. That was huge. It's a step forward and an opportunity to NOT repeat the same damn thing again and again like the Death Wish movies. And the Punisher has enough source material under Ennis's run on the character to tell a story that doesn't involve "You killed my family, I kill you" theme. It allowed the filmmakers to explore the morality of the character, to show the workings of someone like him, to show how the world reacts to his actions. It gave filmmakers the opportunity to show that he's more than just a revenge seeking psycho path. Instead, it was opted they make a real ****** action movie, and employing only the surface levels of those themes I spoke of, resulting in a laughably bad film all around.

Jane had the right idea for the sequel. Lexi Alexander and all involved didn't.

Ennis' run on the Max series alone had tons of quality material that would've made for a great series of films with the character and it would still be great to see it happen.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Ennis' run on the Max series alone had tons of quality material that would've made for a great series of films with the character and it would still be great to see it happen.

Something I found interesting(and was too lazy to browse through the thread to see if anyone else made the same connection) is that the plot for the new Rambo movie(or should I say the original plot, before it was scrapped for the primitive monster and then reinstated as the true plot again), involving drug dealers and slave traffickers somewhere in Mexico sounded alot like the Gregg Hurwitz-penned Punisher story "Girls In White Dresses", the first post-Ennis arc. I doubt it'll play out the same way, but it sounds cool.

 

[S. Grundy]

Ennis' run on the Max series alone had tons of quality material that would've made for a great series of films with the character and it would still be great to see it happen.

Yeah, and you know what the people behind PWZ only decided to shoehorn in characters from all the arcs for no real reason. That's what made it a MAX movie.

A Punisher film doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, it just needs to be a weel written, well directed, well acted, gritty/mean crime drama with some action.