Why the Punisher ever fail?

[Devil]

That's a stupid question. The Punisher in the Marvel Universe is the character better cinematographer of the comics, but they have a big problems to make his movies. Why?

The Punisher's 1989 isn't bad at all but it's an old version of the character and not very proud.
The Punisher's 2004 is much more a western movie, more faithful, with great actor (Tom Jane) but still not the better movie we expected.
Punisher: War Zone is more faithful than the others two with a good actor (Ray Stevenson) but a wrong screenplay.

Why?
They can bring Garth Ennis to wrote the script, they bring Ray Stevenson (it's the definitive Punisher), they bring a good director with a good story. But why LGF don't understand this?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I can only comment on the first two. They failed because the movies sucked and the character wasn't popular enough to overcome that suckage.

As for the 3rd movie: The trailer was an abomination to cinema.

 

[dft-313]

I quite like the 2004 movie - I think it gets a little hammered for its flaws but ignored on its merits. That said, this film was so poorly marketed and looked so cheap from the get-go that most audiences ignored it for the dtraight to DVD movie that it is.

I actually think the 2004 movie was more faithful to the spirit of the character - War Zone's just violent and dumb. Poorly written, poorly directed (those are both facts, Rogue Trooper - they can be assessed technically) and featuring a cast there for the payday only.

 

[fat freddys cat]

because of the same reason why (apart from Ennis) no big name writers of comics or artist's want to do the punisher is that the character is not liked !!

in the same way no big movie star/director/producer's want to do a movie of him.

so it's left to the lesser ones , to make punisher films.......

yes john Travolta was in the 2004 movie (A lister for sure), but in a supporting role and he got paid 15 million for it!!!

and truth be told his name in the title is what got the punisher 2004 movie any box office it did get.......

and its nothing to do with the punishers (comic) popularity, its just that the character is not well liked out side his core audience,(to the misinformed hes a Rambo type, charles Bronson death wish character) he does not have a broad appeal that some comic characters do, thus he does not appeal to many people who want to make movies/comics, whatever, cause the punisher is such an extreme character......

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I like the Punisher. But I can see why mainstream audiences don't. His story is the same old cliche', ex soldier/cop/fed watches his family get killed and sets out on a revenge mission to kill all the crime lords. The story has been done to death, I honestly don't see how they will ever make it popular to mainstream audiences.

 

[fat freddys cat]

I like the Punisher. But I can see why mainstream audiences don't. His story is the same old cliche', ex soldier/cop/fed watches his family get killed and sets out on a revenge mission to kill all the crime lords. The story has been done to death, I honestly don't see how they will ever make it popular to mainstream audiences.

the punisher needs an A list action star to play him, to help the box office, not some c lister star, thats ok with the fantasic four movies but they have special effects and a broader mass appeal to help them along.....

 

[The Guard]

The Punisher's not a cliche in the context of the superhero world...but he's something of a cliche in other respects. The general public apparently just doesn't find him that interesting. And it isn't because the first film was set in Florida, or for any "faithfulness" issues. Nor is it because the character's not been taken seriously enough. I would tend to agree that a Punisher movie would need an A list star to draw the general public. You could probably make an amazing Punisher film with serious elements, depth, etc, and while people might go see it more than they did WAR ZONE, I still don't think it'd be wildly, wildly successful without a big name.

 

[BestGirl]

the punisher needs an A list action star to play him, to help the box office, not some c lister star, thats ok with the fantasic four movies but they have special effects and a broader mass appeal to help them along.....

It also needs an A list director, A list writers, and A list marketing, among other things. You have to take the concept seriously and convince the public before the movie comes out that it's worth seeing, especially in the case of the Punisher. For whatever reason audiences seem not to like him whether it's because he's a cliche, or he's too violent, or something else, so the film will need some extra push.

 

[Devil]

Well, Stevenson for me it's still Punisher.

They can do this things:
- bring back the rights from LGF;
- produce the movie only by Marvel Studios/Knights and Valhalla Motion Pictures (distributor? One distributor like Paramount);
- bring Garth Ennis to write the screenplay or the story;
- bring back Stevenson as Punisher;
- make a sequel to War Zone for big screen;
- more faithful, more story and dialogues, action;
- reduce a little the violence;
- make some villains like Mà Gnucci (with an A star) and Barracuda;
- bring back Microchip by Knight;
- bring back Sopa (Dash Mihok) and partner with Molly (A Star);
- bring a good action director;
- make a good and right marketing;
- set the movie in a great release date!

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

They ain't making a sequel dude...sorry.

 

[S. Grundy]

Yeah, Lexi Alexander officially killed the character in regards to big screen treatments.

 

[Ratcrawler]

Ya know what? I really like '04 the best. It had it's flaws but like someone said, it had the whole western thing working for it. Plus, Tom Jane is way more relatable than Stevenson IMO.

But of all the crap in Warzone, what bugged me most was it had the whole "indirect sequel" thing going for it and, while it was an understandable nod to the comic, they changed the way cooler origin/family reunion slaughter-fest to a quick flashback of "my family and I were having a lovely picnic when we saw the mob exectuting a guy in broad daylight at a park where families were picnicking."

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Ya know what? I really like '04 the best. It had it's flaws but like someone said, it had the whole western thing working for it. Plus, Tom Jane is way more relatable than Stevenson IMO.

But of all the crap in Warzone, what bugged me most was it had the whole "indirect sequel" thing going for it and, while it was an understandable nod to the comic, they changed the way cooler origin/family reunion slaughter-fest to a quick flashback of "my family and I were having a lovely picnic when we saw the mob exectuting a guy in broad daylight at a park where families were picnicking."

The '04 origin being "cooler" is highly debatable. The way they handled Frank's origin in WZ was one of the better aspects of the film.

 

[dft-313]

I prefer the 2004 origin too. Without the Vietnam background he needed something to really put him off the deep-end. it worked for me.

 

[Heretic]

The Punisher fails because they both overthink and underestimate the concept.
Yes, in the world of film he's pretty much the same story as Deathwish or a million other films...which is why you have to shopw people that Punisher is crazier than any of the rest. Plus, its the old 'who would win?" thing. You have to make it obvious that Punisher would utterly destroy Rambo etc without batting an eye because he's just THAT brutal.

However, as shown in Man On Fire (and Taken looks pretty good) this kind of "man pushed to the edge" type movie can be well written and well made. Lexi Alexander got a lot right with this film...the violence was spot on...but I half expected Punisher-nipples and Punisher-ice skates. When you make the decision that you are going to film a movie about a man driven insane by murders who decides to take on a relentlessly brutal war against evil, you should never stop and say "maybe I should throw in some goofy comic booky type stuff".

Its simple...start the film with griity violence, and when the last bad guy is dead, end the film.

 

[jebhdb]

I prefer the War Zone origin myself. Its funny that you have a group of people that get angry if you divert from the source material, and then you have another group that isn't happy if you adhere to strictly to the source material. Just goes to show you cant please everyone.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I prefer the War Zone origin myself. Its funny that you have a group of people that get angry if you divert from the source material, and then you have another group that isn't happy if you adhere to strictly to the source material. Just goes to show you cant please everyone.

I don't recall Loony Bin Jim ever making an appearance in any Punisher book.

 

[grout]

I guess my answer to the topic is that fans are too hellbent on how they depict the character. No matter how the movie is made its not going to please all, hence 3 movies made.

 

[dft-313]

I don't mind if they play about with things or stay faithful - just make it good.

 

[jebhdb]

dft, I know you didn't care for War Zone, which even though I liked I have to admit had many problems. But you also felt The Dark Knight was overrated. I'm just curious what are some of your favorite films. What would you list as some good movies.

 

[ObakeTora]

My opinion?

Artistic integrity, stupid Hollywood writers feel they have to one up Garth Ennis, they know little of the character, and falsely assume Pun fans are a bunch of drunken punk rocking hillibillies who cut themselves shaving after excitement of graduating third grade.

sigh, there arent enough bullets.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I just think it's as simple as this. THE COP/FED/SOLDIER WHO WATCHED HIS FAMILY DIE AND THEN GOES ON A MURDEROUS RAMPAGE OF REVENGE HAS BEEN DONE TO DEATH. To be honest, I think the general public are bored of that sort of thing now.

 

[dft-313]

dft, I know you didn't care for War Zone, which even though I liked I have to admit had many problems. But you also felt The Dark Knight was overrated. I'm just curious what are some of your favorite films. What would you list as some good movies.

Miller's Crossing
The Crow
Blade Runner
The Thing
The Hustler
Sunset Boulevard
LA Confidential
X-Men 2
Unforgiven
Almost Famous

That's a quick run though the films I've watched most. Anyone who claims that The Dark Knight's some shining pearl of perfect film-making is just ignoring some incredibly clumsy flaws. Rotten dialogue, terrible character development and a complete mess of a third act lead to a film that people praise more for its intent than for its achievements.

X2 did it first and did it better.

 

[jebhdb]

Good list of movies dft. I can't argue with any of those choices. The Crow, Blade Runner and The Thing would all probably be near the top of my list as well.

 

[webhead731]

I think The Dark Knight is overrated myself. I love it, I got the DVD and some figures, but sometimes the praise is too much. Just makes me sick of it almost.

I just think there are better flicks.
As for Punisher, I loved both the 2004 movie and War Zone. I think they're written just fine. It has flaws, like EVERY movie does. Big deal. Jigsaw was a good villain, the music was good, cinematography was neat, and the acting was well done, but the action was badass. Punisher.

All I need really. I just wish they'd stay away with the actual "music" music. The songs that aren't score. PWZ didn't do it too much, but it did it.